RE: America is not the first surveillance state

RE: America is not the first surveillance state (Full Version)

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vincentML -> RE: America is not the first surveillance state (6/12/2013 8:38:36 AM)
quote: so with ALL the things we have done has terrorism STOPPED? NOOO and why because we do exactly what they want us to do, we REACT to it! Seems that it has except for a few rogues, but you never know. So, should we unlock the doors to the pilots' cabin on commercial jetliners? How about if we allow guns and box cutters on planes? Should we stop examining backpacks and computers at the airport and at major sporting events? What's your plan? Pull in all our defenses and go shopping as usual?

JeffBC -> RE: America is not the first surveillance state (6/12/2013 8:53:46 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: vincentML What's your plan? Pull in all our defenses and go shopping as usual? My plan? My plan would be to hold to our constitution. My plan would be to act with some semblance of honor and integrity. My plan would be to chart a course as a nation based upon our principles rather than expedience. You know, as the world's most armed nation there are lots of things we COULD do. Those things would, perhaps, make us richer and safer both. But to do them makes us... not us. You have made it abundantly clear that you don't really care if the government knows every single shred of your life down to intimate detail. You are clearly in a state of trust with the government, both now and in perpetuity, where it's inconceivable that they do BadThings(tm). Some of us, however, do not share your unbridled optimism in the goodness of politicians. Some of us look at the history of our own country and think, "perhaps unbounded trust is unwise." The question is, can that 4x% convince enough of that 5x% to do anything? Can we convince them that the issue is so pressing that they must put down their red and blue flags at least for a moment, and band together to stop the Republocrats? I don't know the answers to those questions. But your idea that the only alternative is to just bow down to our muslim overlords if we don't wish a a totalitarian police state seems suspicious. Out of curiosity, do you have any thoughts on why this intense focus on US Citizens if the bad guys we're trying to find are largely elsewhere? When did the US population become the pool of suspects? And what are we suspected of?

Real0ne -> RE: America is not the first surveillance state (6/12/2013 10:14:43 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: vincentML quote: so with ALL the things we have done has terrorism STOPPED? NOOO and why because we do exactly what they want us to do, we REACT to it! Seems that it has except for a few rogues, but you never know. So, should we unlock the doors to the pilots' cabin on commercial jetliners? How about if we allow guns and box cutters on planes? Should we stop examining backpacks and computers at the airport and at major sporting events? What's your plan? Pull in all our defenses and go shopping as usual? we have gone from a few rogue psychopathic shooters to a few rogue psychopathic bombers Yeh thats real progress!

Aswad -> RE: America is not the first surveillance state (6/12/2013 8:33:48 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: JeffBC But your idea that the only alternative is to just bow down to our muslim overlords if we don't wish a a totalitarian police state seems suspicious. Throw in the fact that said overlords will be a majority of the voters in my turnkey totalitarian police state eventually, and it seems downright silly. Anyway, the enemies of such states are never muslims, socialists, women, black, disabled, gays or any other unpopular minority du jour. The one and only enemy of such a state is *change, and such states are ever the enemies of their peoples. Historically, they collapse, but trusting history to repeat itself is as silly as trusting it not* to. IWYW, — Aswad.

Marini -> RE: America is not the first surveillance state (6/12/2013 8:47:32 PM)
quote: The one and only enemy of such a state is change, and such states are ever the enemies of their peoples. [sm=goodpost.gif] That was along the lines of what I was thinking. Change and those that want to change anything related to the "state" are the biggest enemies.

Real0ne -> RE: America is not the first surveillance state (6/12/2013 9:44:36 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Aswad quote: ORIGINAL: JeffBC But your idea that the only alternative is to just bow down to our muslim overlords if we don't wish a a totalitarian police state seems suspicious. Throw in the fact that said overlords will be a majority of the voters in my turnkey totalitarian police state eventually, and it seems downright silly. Anyway, the enemies of such states are never muslims, socialists, women, black, disabled, gays or any other unpopular minority du jour. The one and only enemy of such a state is *change, and such states are ever the enemies of their peoples. Historically, they collapse, but trusting history to repeat itself is as silly as trusting it not* to. IWYW, — Aswad. Here its ok for the "state" to reconstruct government but when people try to change it, especially to empower the individual the shit hits the fan. Anyone who goes up against the irs, get sued every time they turn around over and over again until they are broke, and it takes years before they let them out of the meat grinder if at all or not in prison. Winning court cases go unpublished making them next to useless as precedence, and most often what happens is the cases are dropped with no decision again to prevent precedence from being set, then when you kick their asses the settlement agreement is locked up and secret so no one can see that you won. yep america! It is about keeping the power in the hands of the few and we the assholes do it to ourselves through our ignorance while they sit back and laugh about it. Every time I hear some complete fucking idiot say "I have nothing to hide so what" I have to laugh and shake my head. These people are so fucking lost and they vote! How about the guy who has a great cancer cure? Look what they did to this guy! It went all the way up to congress regarding agency abuse. http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2013/01/19/cancer-doctor-burzynski.aspx the government stole this guys patents! Because they want a piece of that action! How fucked is that! They dont want a cancer cure, there is no money in it! and they damn sure dont want it coming from a private party who did not use government resources so they have no standing what so ever to any of the proceeds. So they violate this guys rights with legal terrorism.

Edwynn -> RE: America is not the first surveillance state (6/12/2013 10:21:22 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Real0ne quote: ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam quote: ORIGINAL: Politesub53 Question time then chaps......... How would you enforce an effective surveillence system to halt another 9/11, or would you just figure that as the cost of having no state surveillence ? Obama was 100% correct, you cant have both, as idyllic as it sounds. Actually, Jefferson said it a long time before Obama was even thought of. Something along the lines of A nation that sacrifices liberty for security deserves neither. “The purpose of government is to enable the people of a nation to live in safety and happiness. Government exists for the interests of the governed, not for the governors.” ― Thomas Jefferson yep people in america are completely drunk on koolaid People are NOT happy, they are NOT safe and the government does NOT operate for the interests of the governed. Seems it no longer serves its intended purpose. "The government has no lawful requirement to protect citizens." yet we are sold this nonexistant bridge over and over every time government wants to encroach on rights and expand their power, and once acquiesced we never get it back. How legislation for truth in government and all citizen suits against government are paid for by government as government business? Actually, you have the last two words of the last phrase backwards, the more factual one being; How legislation promotes falsehood and lying in business by completely stifling the CFTC, and nearly so the SEC, and lending a helping hand in stifling any efforts towards better standards and transparency of business by AICAP? That the and the fact that oil and agro-chem and finance industries completely swamp whatever the government spends in enforcement efforts by 10-20 times? Paid for by the business interests actually running this country that you and others mistake for "government"? Business repeatedly throws out trip wires to the government, while clubbing it on the head as it stumbles, but it's "all the government's fault" after all that, the story rendered and then accepted by the most gullible of society. It ain't the Queen and the Fed instigating any of this, bub. When are you going to wake up?

Edwynn -> RE: America is not the first surveillance state (6/12/2013 10:39:30 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Real0ne Anyone who goes up against the irs, get sued every time they turn around over and over again until they are broke, and it takes years before they let them out of the meat grinder if at all or not in prison. OK, we get that you don't want to pay for the roads and the air traffic system or the schools or the regulation of our waters or our money or or any other such thing, such necessities of what's considered modern civilization being considered as such in modern society. You either expect others to pay for it while you slide, or you expect all this to magically come out of a hat. Yeah, we get it, more than you know.

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