RE: Breath Play resources. (Full Version)

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tazzygirl -> RE: Breath Play resources. (6/13/2013 10:44:37 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: MissImmortalPain

Did I offend you?


Laughs

Do you honestly think you can?

you can try if you wish.



MissImmortalPain -> RE: Breath Play resources. (6/13/2013 10:49:20 PM)

I thought from your post that you perhaps thought I was insulting people. Which was not my intention. As for if I could offend you or not....again...not my intention and don't know or care if I could. I don't really know you so I don't figure it should matter.



UllrsIshtar -> RE: Breath Play resources. (6/13/2013 10:58:14 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: MissImmortalPain

Or did I offend you? If so to either of you....sorry, but preaching the dangers and saying talk to a doctor (like any doctor is going to give advice on how to do breath play) is the same, or seems to me, as saying Don't do it. I said what I did because I have seen it often happen that when someone asks how to do something the only things they are told is go to an event and learn or just don't do it. Breath play, gun play, knife play, blood play, simulated drowning, etc. there are a lot of things people choose not to take part and good for them. Better safe than sorry is a very good answer for some but not all people. If I offended anyone that posted on this thread before I did, or hell after I did, I'm sorry but I would rather tell someone they should put on an oven mitt or use a pot holder than just tell them don't take the pan out of the oven you will burn yourself.


I didn't say don't take the pan out of the oven. I said do research on what kind of materials can be used to fashion oven mitts what kind of materials would be a bad idea, and then use that knowledge wisely.

And what kind of piss poor idiot for a doctor do you have that he couldn't give good advice on breath play? I know American health care providers are piss poor compared to the standards I'm used to but djeeze, are you really saying you couldn't go to your GP and get solid information about the do's and don't about what to do with your own body?

My GP when I talked to him about it gave me preliminary information based on what he knew of the top of my head, scheduled me to come back next week to talk about it again after he'd had the time to do some research, went over his findings, and then referred me to a specialist (while notifying that guy about the nature of the question I'd bring up during the consultation so he had time to prep) to go in more depth about it. The specialist went over all the risk with me for about half an hour, including showing me how and where to put your figures and hands, to minimize risk, should I still decide to go through with it.

How's that a case of "like any doctor is going to give advice on how to do breath play"?



tazzygirl -> RE: Breath Play resources. (6/13/2013 11:04:03 PM)

quote:

8) Be aware of all of the things that can go wrong. Including but not limited to you killing another person and going to jail for murder.


What you basically said was "Do these things, dont do these things, and know that things can go wrong... like jail or murder.

How about the death or permanent brain damage of the person they are with? Why didnt that hit your radar of "Risk awareness"? But, you didnt tell them all the things that can go wrong, now did you.

Why didnt you go into cerebral hypoxia? Or even touch on it? if you are going to preach, then practice. See, thats what the links I provided did.

Risk Stratification for Breath Control Play (aka Abstinence Only “Education” is Crap)

http://www.stefanosandshay.com/articles/risk-stratification-for-breath-control-play-aka-abstinence-only-education-is-crap/

Just one of the links contained in the information I gave.

And low and behold.. even more links...

http://uwire.com/2010/11/15/a-peek-behind-the-curtain-the-basics-of-bdsm-and-breath-play/

And more

http://queerkink.tumblr.com/post/2862224348/the-qk-guide-to-breath-control-play

I believe in LOTS of information... not just a how too manual that you gave. Without going into the risks, as many do, a newbie may see the how too, and not give a damn about the what ifs.

quote:

but preaching the dangers and saying talk to a doctor (like any doctor is going to give advice on how to do breath play) is the same, or seems to me, as saying Don't do it.


And partial information, as you gave, is just as dangerous because you never discussed what to do if something goes wrong, what could go wrong, and the potential outcome of those actions.

Giving a "how too" list and ending it with "Be aware, there are dangers" without going into detail is even more dangerous when glossing over the complications that are possible.

Telling someone to "Take a CPR course" is no different than people saying.. speak to your Doctor or an expert.



SwitchNSpanky -> RE: Breath Play resources. (6/13/2013 11:04:35 PM)

Big thank you for some very awesome replies y'all. I called my bro at around eight and was able to talk with him just as he was picking up his new lady friend. He said he would talk to her before they get their kink on and tell her he is not comfortable doing that for her right now but if it's really her thing he will get educated before trying. We did not talk long cuz he was sitting in the car in her driveway and did not want to be rude. But before we hung up I did tell him "stick to your guns tonight bro... If you screw up you might not be able to tell her sorry". That was prob a bit unnecessary looking back on it.

When I talk to him again I'll tell him what Michael said about the mental trick. I meant to this time but forgot when we were talking cuz we where in a rush.

Breath play has always scared me and does not turn me or Wife on. So I was very glad I had you guys to answer this.



MissImmortalPain -> RE: Breath Play resources. (6/13/2013 11:11:20 PM)

Actually you just said your doctor didn't know. That he had to do research and then he sent you to someone else. I'm sure you do have a much higher standard in health care, as I'm sure everyone does, but no I do not go ask my general practitioner about it every time I want to get a piercing, a tattoo, or a few other body mods. I also don't ask her if it is a good idea to point a loaded gun at someone. Perhaps I should have said it is not likely to be common, IN THE UNITED STATES, that a general practitioner will give advice on breath play.

By the way...I didn't say you said or didn't say anything. I made a comment about how I like to answer questions. The rest was a general statement about things I have seen on the forums before.



tazzygirl -> RE: Breath Play resources. (6/13/2013 11:16:26 PM)

quote:

I'm sure you do have a much higher standard in health care, as I'm sure everyone does, but no I do not go ask my general practitioner about it every time I want to get a piercing, a tattoo, or a few other body mods. I also don't ask her if it is a good idea to point a loaded gun at someone. Perhaps I should have said it is not likely to be common, IN THE UNITED STATES, that a general practitioner will give advice on breath play.


Mine knows I am kinky. He enjoys our conversations. Since I am diabetic, I do ask him all sorts of questions about play activity. And he just grins, answers my questions, and thanks me for being a "good girl" when it comes to my health.

But you only get out what you put in, even in a doctor patient relationship. If I cant ask these types of questions, I need a new doctor.



BambiBoi -> RE: Breath Play resources. (6/13/2013 11:33:07 PM)

Miss Immortal: I think a lot of hesitation to make meaningful recommendations on breatheplay is that people have a sense of duty to help fully if they are going to help at all. You make a similarly good point, "I'd rather have the total newb know a thing or two before choking someone to death." I am in the other camp because I don't want to encourage eager young bucks to think "it's just 1-2-3, watch for signs of struggle, nothing longer than 60 seconds, got it." I would rather those tops run scared until they are overqualified to deny someone sweet sweet air.

To the point of doctors: I do not have a kink friendly doctor. I could talk to him about STI's and maybe impact play, but I know he would say "It's a bad idea to deprive yourself of oxygen. Don't do that." Same for suspension, fireplay, cutting, blood play... "Why would you need to do that? I can prescribe viagra if you're having problems maintaining interest in sex..." So, to me, doctors are generally out as a reliable source but you never know until you ask.

I'm not sure whether I mistake your tone regarding piercings and tattoos. The first time you get either, it would be a good idea to discuss the hazards with an expert. Generally, the risk of death is miniscule, so the talk is short. Playing with loaded guns and bags over faces, the stakes are higher, so should the education.

And to the point of choking ≠ breath play, that is true. Many forms of breathe play exist. All share the inherent danger of depriving the brain of oxygen through asphyxiation, but choking can also do physical impact-type damage.



MissImmortalPain -> RE: Breath Play resources. (6/13/2013 11:33:58 PM)

Do you know what the words "including but not limited to" mean? I said to be aware of everything that can happen. Did I need to say...now go do your homework, or do the ops homework for him? You all gave him information....good information at that...but no one listed everything that could go wrong. No one told him how fun it can be for how it feels either. Do you intended to point that out to each of the other posters?

As for the other comment, though it wasn't really directed at you, thank you for sharing how you and your doctor get along. One of my many doctors, my gp infact, is aware that I am kinky as well. And it creeps her out but I tend to go to see her for things like a cold or twisting my ankle. If I wanted to talk about breath play with a doctor I would, if I felt like, more than likely speak to my cardiologist. If I want to talk about limiting a persons bathroom time I would talk to my nephrologist. If I wanted to talk about.....I'm sure at this point you get mine. If anyone can show me information that clearly proves that most doctors within the U.S. would give out information on how to take part in safe breath play rather than warn people to not do it I will be more than happy to, again, say I'm sorry.



BambiBoi -> RE: Breath Play resources. (6/13/2013 11:35:09 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Mine knows I am kinky. . . . he just grins, answers my questions, and thanks me for being a "good girl" when it comes to my health.



Dr. Daddy?



MissImmortalPain -> RE: Breath Play resources. (6/14/2013 12:09:37 AM)

I know where the hesitation comes from, BambiBoi, and I agree with you (and believe it or not them) about the dangers. There are dangers everywhere in life and just warning people about the bad things that could happen doesn't stop everyone from doing them. I have no issue admitting that I did not tell the op everything he, or his friend, needs to know about breath play but if I wrote everything I know none of you would see it for a few days and it would end up looking like a book. I could have told him the gold standard of four. Four weeks without food and you die. Four days without water and you die. Four minutes without air and you die. Those rules are iron glad for many but not all. For example not all people can survive for three minutes without air. I could have explained to him the natural reaction that everyone has when their body goes into panic mode because of lack of air, and how to deal with it, but it involves sticking a persons head under cold water and I don't want the boy drowning someone.

As for the ink and holes...again you are correct. Before getting the first a person should talk to their doctor. They should also talk to them if they have long term health issues. But I have a lot, and I do mean a lot, of ink and holes. I love body mods. I don't run to my doc every time I think about doing one. I am also very aware of the very long list that inkers and piercers make people go through before they will do work on them.

Back to the topic this all started with (breath play) as I said, personally, when I do breath play I am more likely to put my hand over the other persons mouth (bare hand by the way) I normally put the other hand on their chest. I pay very close attention to the rate of their heart. The dilation of their eyes. How their muscles tense or don't. How rapidly they begin to sweat and if they are trying to communicate anything to me. It is incredibly rare that I will put my hand around a persons throat....in fact I think the last time I did it was to defend myself in a bar fight.

I know I might be wrong but I will always take issues with the only preaching dangers part of bdsm. It doesn't stop people from doing something they really want to do. And as I, and I would guess many others, know.....just saying don't do that is like telling a kid not to eat ice cream, or ride a skate board, or a motorcycle, or do parkour (if you don't know what that is look it up, a lot of teenage boys do it) all of which done incorrectly can cost a person their life.



tazzygirl -> RE: Breath Play resources. (6/14/2013 12:10:40 AM)

quote:

Do you know what the words "including but not limited to" mean? I said to be aware of everything that can happen.


Yep, actually, I do, quite well. And your main concern, and any lay person reading it would take the inference to mean... to themselves. Not to their partner.

quote:

If anyone can show me information that clearly proves that most doctors within the U.S. would give out information on how to take part in safe breath play rather than warn people to not do it I will be more than happy to, again, say I'm sorry.


They wont, there is no "safe" way in the medical community. What they will say is, you shouldnt and this is why, then run down the pathophysiology of what happens, why its dangerous, and the potential outcomes. You know, things you cant get, and immediate responses from a trained professional you cant get here. You can even demonstrate how you want to do it and gain their reaction.

You can get a how too video anywhere. Even the links I provided explain the safer ways of doing this kind of play, even the one Kana provided.



MissImmortalPain -> RE: Breath Play resources. (6/14/2013 12:22:27 AM)

Again there is a reason I said what I did. No offense intended to the human race and all but nine times out of ten people worry more about themselves than they do other people (personal opinion if yours differs don't bother to tell me I'm wrong, you won't change my mind) and if you inform them of the bad things that could happen to them, not the other person, they are a lot less likely to try something to begin with.

As for the other...yep that was my point, which again I wasn't making to you. I told a different poster "like any doctor is going to give advice on how to do breath play" They are more likely to warn away, or try to scare away, anyone that asks.....and for that matter how likely is it really that some "newbie" (I hate that word) is going to ask their doctor to begin with. No matter how many times they are told to....really how many of them are going to go talk to a doctor?



tazzygirl -> RE: Breath Play resources. (6/14/2013 12:33:07 AM)

While you may hate the word, its an apt description of the OP's friend, who was asking for this information.... so we are giving out info to a third party via the OP.

Not the best way to give a how too list.

quote:

No matter how many times they are told to....really how many of them are going to go talk to a doctor?


Why not? I did. Again, if you cant speak to your doctor abotu issues regarding your health, even when you have sex, you need a different doctor.

Its akin to me grabbing someone off the street, pulling them into a hospital and saying "Let me show you how to do an IV stick. But, be careful, there may be problems, including you ending up in jail for killing the patient" then not explaining just how you could kill the patient.

Telling someone the risks can include brain injury due to lack of oxygen, permanent brain damage, even death, as a result fo lack of oxygen are prudent things to explain (As others have done). Who in their right mind, even a sadist, wants to deal with a dead body and a police investigation? I think even someone new can make that connection.



MissImmortalPain -> RE: Breath Play resources. (6/14/2013 3:04:43 AM)

Your opinion of the word is just that.....yours. Many others, including the people that get called it, are aware that it is an internet term (gamer term to begin with) that is an insult. Much like the word Noob it is most often used to say that someone knows nothing, sucks at the game, and is a losesr. But hey why does it make any difference to you if I hate a word or not. I didn't say you couldn't use it I just said I don't like it.

Why not? How many people between the ages of 16 (get over the age kids do some fucked up things now that many of us would have never thought about) and 25? Do you know a lot of them? None of them drink? Smoke? Do drugs? After all they have all been warned it is dangerous right? More than a few of them might have even been told by doctors. And do all of the kids you know go running to doctors to ask questions when it comes to things having to do with sex?

And why do you keep making this seem like I don't think the op should have been told about the risks? I said many gave good information, what would be the point in me just repeating it? Who in their right mind wants to deal with a dead body? I'm guessing no one but that won't just stop people from doing dangerous things.

I did not give the op a how to list. I have stated many times and will again that all of the things on this thread combined are still not all he needs to know. I gave him information. It is up to him to weight the balances. Or in this case, if he is telling the truth, it is his friends.



Charles6682 -> RE: Breath Play resources. (6/14/2013 3:28:22 AM)

I do know what it feels like to not be able to breathe and I have passed out a number of times. I guess that's where trust is truly important.



kalikshama -> RE: Breath Play resources. (6/14/2013 3:40:20 AM)

quote:

Or did I offend you? If so to either of you....sorry, but preaching the dangers and saying talk to a doctor (like any doctor is going to give advice on how to do breath play) is the same, or seems to me, as saying Don't do it. I said what I did because I have seen it often happen that when someone asks how to do something the only things they are told is go to an event and learn or just don't do it. Breath play, gun play, knife play, blood play, simulated drowning, etc. there are a lot of things people choose not to take part and good for them. Better safe than sorry is a very good answer for some but not all people. If I offended anyone that posted on this thread before I did, or hell after I did, I'm sorry but I would rather tell someone they should put on an oven mitt or use a pot holder than just tell them don't take the pan out of the oven you will burn yourself.


The message I received from many of the posts before your first one was definitely "don't do it."



kalikshama -> RE: Breath Play resources. (6/14/2013 3:49:19 AM)

quote:

To the point of doctors: I do not have a kink friendly doctor. I could talk to him about STI's and maybe impact play, but I know he would say "It's a bad idea to deprive yourself of oxygen. Don't do that." Same for suspension, fireplay, cutting, blood play... "Why would you need to do that? I can prescribe viagra if you're having problems maintaining interest in sex..." So, to me, doctors are generally out as a reliable source but you never know until you ask.


I've encountered kink friendly medical professionals but never kink knowledgeable ones. 11 years ago, I couldn't get a simple "What are the risks of ass-to-mouth?" answered. In this case, they weren't friendly either, lol.

However, I never let my preconceptions or potential embarrassment prevent me from asking questions.



tazzygirl -> RE: Breath Play resources. (6/14/2013 4:17:11 AM)

You had a doctor who couldnt tell you the risks of ecoli? of STD's? Two of the most basics? Wow... Did he know where your heart was, internally?



kalikshama -> RE: Breath Play resources. (6/14/2013 9:46:05 AM)

This was 11 years ago and I'm not sure that any of them were a MD, but I would expect nurses to be able to advise me about this as well.



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