Indefinite Detention Of Americans Survives House Vote (Full Version)

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Lucylastic -> Indefinite Detention Of Americans Survives House Vote (6/13/2013 4:04:31 PM)

WASHINGTON -- The U.S. House of Representatives voted again Thursday to allow the indefinite military detention of Americans, blocking an amendment that would have barred the possibility.

Congress wrote that authority into law in the National Defense Authorization Act two years ago, prompting outrage from civil libertarians on the left and right. President Barack Obama signed the measure, but insisted his administration would never use it.

Supporters of detention argue that the nation needs to be able to arrest and jail suspected terrorists without trial, including Americans on U.S. soil, for as long as there is a war on terror. Their argument won, and the measure was defeated by a vote of 200 to 226.

But opponents, among them the Rep. Adam Smith (D-Wash.), who offered the amendment to end that authority, argued that such detention is a stain on the Constitution that unnecessarily militarizes U.S. law enforcement.

"It is a dangerous step toward executive and military power to allow things like indefinite detention under military control within the U.S.," Smith said. "That's the heart and essence of this issue."

Smith's amendment, which also had Republican sponsors including Reps. Chris Gibson (N.Y.) and Justin Amash (Mich.), would guarantee that anyone arrested in the United States gets a trial.

Republican opponents argued that such a move would just invite terrorists to come to the United States, citing the recent Boston bombings and the consulate attacks in Benghazi, Libya, as evidence that terrorists were determined to harm the U.S. They said that applying the Constitution on U.S. soil amounted to a free pass to people bent on trying to destroy the country.

Rep. Tom Cotton (R-Ark.), compared ending indefinite detention to giving someone a free pass in a game of hide-and-seek.

"There was a phrase in that game called 'olly olly oxen free' -- meant you could come out, you were safe, you no longer had to hide," Cotton argued. "This amendment is the olly olly oxen free amendment of the war on terrorism. It invites Al Qaeda and associated forces to send terrorists to the Untied States and recruit terrorists on U.S. soil."

Smith was not impressed by the argument, noting that more than 400 terrorists have been captured, tried and convicted in the United States.

"No one who we have captured in the U.S. as a terrorist have we failed to convict," said Smith, noting the 2009 arrest and prosecution of Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab, the "underwear bomber." "Let's trust the Constitution. The Constitution doesn't threaten us. The Constitution protects us."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/06/13/indefinite-detention-americans_n_3437923.html?utm_hp_ref=politics




Real0ne -> RE: Indefinite Detention Of Americans Survives House Vote (6/13/2013 5:53:02 PM)

politics in america just died

Proof that voting them out WORKS!









JeffBC -> RE: Indefinite Detention Of Americans Survives House Vote (6/13/2013 6:44:13 PM)

And may I just point out just how disingenous our leaders are.

They (collectively) have repeatedly voted in favor of a law that they all collectively say they don't need and will never use.

Why can't one of them (say Obama) just come right out and say, "Sure, we think that in order to protect national security it's important to end the rule of law, due process, and a handful of other things."




Lucylastic -> RE: Indefinite Detention Of Americans Survives House Vote (6/13/2013 6:48:06 PM)

Can you imagine what would happen if he vetoed it?
LMAO




JeffBC -> RE: Indefinite Detention Of Americans Survives House Vote (6/13/2013 6:50:29 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic
Can you imagine what would happen if he vetoed it?
LMAO

Dunno but I would have thought we had a man of honor and integrity in the oval office.




Lucylastic -> RE: Indefinite Detention Of Americans Survives House Vote (6/13/2013 6:51:47 PM)

oh thats a lil disingenuous[:D][:D][:D][:D][:D]




JeffBC -> RE: Indefinite Detention Of Americans Survives House Vote (6/13/2013 6:54:06 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic
oh thats a lil disingenuous[:D][:D][:D][:D][:D]

it was? By "it" I assumed you meant the 2012 NDAA. I was being literal. That was the moment when I decided he was a traitor and had sold the bill of rights to the highest bidder. Would he have paid a political price for it? Maybe, maybe not. Men of honor and integrity do not worry about such thing at the price tag of subverting the rule of law.




Lucylastic -> RE: Indefinite Detention Of Americans Survives House Vote (6/13/2013 6:56:11 PM)

LOL no and you know it wasnt....




JeffBC -> RE: Indefinite Detention Of Americans Survives House Vote (6/13/2013 7:02:23 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

LOL no and you know it wasnt....

OK, wait a moment. I need to say clearly and honestly that I'm not tracking this conversation. Could you spell out for me how I'm being disingenuous?




Lucylastic -> RE: Indefinite Detention Of Americans Survives House Vote (6/13/2013 7:08:57 PM)

ok.... you said....
quote:

Dunno but I would have thought we had a man of honor and integrity in the oval office.

you dont think that at all
thats all, nothing...badass, I was having a joke, you, I understand, and while Im not at your level of dissatisfaction*for whatever reason* I was pulling your leg:)




JeffBC -> RE: Indefinite Detention Of Americans Survives House Vote (6/13/2013 7:12:43 PM)

Ahhhh... but had he been a different man... the kind of man who would veto such a thing and stand up in front of the American public and say why I would have thought differently. He is not such a man and he does not do those sorts of things. So I judge him differently.

Instead, he is the kind of man who needs the ability to circumvent due process and the rule of law when it suits his needs and desires a surveillance state. The word "tyrant" comes to mind.

:)




Lucylastic -> RE: Indefinite Detention Of Americans Survives House Vote (6/13/2013 7:14:38 PM)

I dont believe there is a man alive that would do that.
Not one that has all the information and or advice/issues available to make that decision




DomKen -> RE: Indefinite Detention Of Americans Survives House Vote (6/13/2013 7:31:35 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

Can you imagine what would happen if he vetoed it?
LMAO

He couldn't veto it. It was a amendment to the National Defense Authorization Act. That is the budget and spending authority for the entire DoD. Veto it and soldiers don't get paid.




Real0ne -> RE: Indefinite Detention Of Americans Survives House Vote (6/13/2013 7:35:46 PM)

thats bullshit that he "couldnt" veto it

you operate out of a pretty small box dood




mnottertail -> RE: Indefinite Detention Of Americans Survives House Vote (6/14/2013 5:23:03 AM)

NDAA appropriations come from the house and they go year to year. The bills are passed at the last possible minute, so the result is that private johnson doesnt get paid if they are vetoed, no time to craft another bill, and no money left to rob from to pay the troops, they are a fait accompli, and they get those treasonous riders included without issue. How many of you would have the entire military shut down while the august legislative branch howls at the moon ala sequestration?

Its ludicrous all the way around.




hot4bondage -> RE: Indefinite Detention Of Americans Survives House Vote (6/14/2013 8:04:00 AM)

Call me optimistic, but I don't think that very many of our soldiers would just walk off the job if one paycheck was delayed.

Here's how they voted: http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2013/roll228.xml

Over the years, US civilian courts have successfully charged, tried and convicted over 400 terrorists while maintaining the rule of law. If due process is important to you, please take a moment to see how your representative voted. If they're in the "No" column, please make a note to yourself to NEVER VOTE FOR THAT STATIST SCUMBAG AGAIN.




mnottertail -> RE: Indefinite Detention Of Americans Survives House Vote (6/14/2013 8:18:50 AM)

Not delayed, not gotten. No funding. Nothing in the military would happen. All in all done. What would be the hue and cry of the disingenuous right? The other clueless as well?

How would that play? How would that play with our allies; with our enemies?




JeffBC -> RE: Indefinite Detention Of Americans Survives House Vote (6/14/2013 9:22:12 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail
Not delayed, not gotten. No funding. Nothing in the military would happen. All in all done. What would be the hue and cry of the disingenuous right? The other clueless as well?

I don't know Ron. I think the right would have declared him treasonous and unpatriotic. I think a frank appraisal from the president's own lips supported with truthful legal opinions would have cause most voters to side strongly with the President. But that's not what he did. Rather, he pushed for that portion of the NDAA... demanded it even.

Is it really too much to ask that our president tell us something approximating the truth?




DomKen -> RE: Indefinite Detention Of Americans Survives House Vote (6/14/2013 11:12:46 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffBC

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail
Not delayed, not gotten. No funding. Nothing in the military would happen. All in all done. What would be the hue and cry of the disingenuous right? The other clueless as well?

I don't know Ron. I think the right would have declared him treasonous and unpatriotic. I think a frank appraisal from the president's own lips supported with truthful legal opinions would have cause most voters to side strongly with the President. But that's not what he did. Rather, he pushed for that portion of the NDAA... demanded it even.

Is it really too much to ask that our president tell us something approximating the truth?

No, he did not push for that part of the NDAA. the President actually issued a signing statement when he signed the law saying his administration would never use that provision.
http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2011/12/31/statement-president-hr-1540




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