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advice neeeded on a protest - 6/14/2013 9:40:40 AM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		We want to protest the use of 100 city cameras now being installed in a town of less then 10,000. We have made up a poster with the mayors face- saying big brother is watching you.

I am looking for ideas on how to proceed and maybe do-s and donts.


It is pointless to contact the news paper- as they are owned out of NY and put pressure on them to toe the party line....


We want to make a statement- make some noise- but not get arrested.


This crowd is creative and I am sure someone here has ideas I/we can use for this issue and per haps others in the future--
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RE: advice neeeded on a protest - 6/14/2013 9:45:15 AM   
mnottertail


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Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		Ja, wear masks so the cameras cant see your face. It would be especially cute if you could cut out the mayors face and have the people wear them and stare into the different cameras.

< Message edited by mnottertail -- 6/14/2013 9:46:11 AM >

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RE: advice neeeded on a protest - 6/14/2013 9:49:13 AM   
pahunkboy


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Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		we ran a gal against him in April she lost 378-200. we are running a guy against him in November- has name recognition, newspaper LOVES our mayor- whom we hate because he among other things recruited a 23 haz frack dump here along our river front- we dont want it- so we are also up against the frack industry here in PA.

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RE: advice neeeded on a protest - 6/14/2013 10:00:27 AM   
jlf1961


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From: Somewhere Texas
Status: offline 		Well before I advise anything, just where are these cameras to be located?

I mean there are some places I would want cameras, like parks simply because of the various predatory types that frequent these venues.

Or high crime areas, granted in a town of 10000, I cannot imagine just what would constitute a high crime area.

I mean recently after an attempted child abduction at a local park, the city installed cameras in the parks here in town, the cameras were covering playgrounds, tennis courts, basketball courts and the entrances to the bathrooms.

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RE: advice neeeded on a protest - 6/14/2013 10:10:14 AM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		Thus far they are in the parks- but planned for everywhere.

Some parents are boycotting the parks because they do not want their kids filmed. The cameras will be viewable by anyone. But that is not the issue.

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RE: advice neeeded on a protest - 6/14/2013 10:29:59 AM   
JeffBC


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quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961
I mean there are some places I would want cameras, like parks simply because of the various predatory types that frequent these venues.

So long as you understand that those video feeds could go anywhere and be stored indefinitely and used for any purpose whatsoever.

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RE: advice neeeded on a protest - 6/14/2013 10:39:53 AM   
pahunkboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffBC

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961
I mean there are some places I would want cameras, like parks simply because of the various predatory types that frequent these venues.

So long as you understand that those video feeds could go anywhere and be stored indefinitely and used for any purpose whatsoever.



and be held by trusted people in authority like Jerry Sandusky.

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RE: advice neeeded on a protest - 6/14/2013 10:41:50 AM   
MrRodgers


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quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffBC

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961
I mean there are some places I would want cameras, like parks simply because of the various predatory types that frequent these venues.

So long as you understand that those video feeds could go anywhere and be stored indefinitely and used for any purpose whatsoever.

Yes, but in a criminal matter, they often exonerate as much as incriminate. However, I do not like cameras everywhere. What happens is once they become a part of our lives, govt. will seek to extend their use and coverage. Society will have been seduced into their efficacy.

It is the future during which govt. will attempt to build their social surveillance into something quite sinister and then quite suffocating.

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RE: advice neeeded on a protest - 6/14/2013 10:48:36 AM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		The plan was sold to us- 6 or 7 cameras- BAMM- now 100 of them- with capcatiy to expand to 300. In a town of less then 10,000 people.

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RE: advice neeeded on a protest - 6/14/2013 10:50:15 AM   
JeffBC


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From: Canada
Status: offline 		Moyer did some interesting stuff on this. The link I found quickly is a synopsis but I vaguely remember running across some web site/document/whatever of his that was sort of like "How to do a protest" cookbook. I may be wrong.

http://www.historyisaweapon.com/defcon1/moyermap.html

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RE: advice neeeded on a protest - 6/14/2013 9:36:38 PM   
muhly22222


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Status: offline 		I would contact your local police department and make sure you give them plenty of notice as to where and when you will be holding your protest. If they try to prevent you from doing so on the basis of something that isn't content-neutral (for instance, you probably can't protest in a residential neighborhood at 2 in the morning, regardless of what you're protesting), then contact a lawyer.

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RE: advice neeeded on a protest - 6/15/2013 1:40:06 AM   
JeffBC


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From: Canada
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quote:

ORIGINAL: muhly22222
I would contact your local police department and make sure you give them plenty of notice as to where and when you will be holding your protest. If they try to prevent you from doing so on the basis of something that isn't content-neutral (for instance, you probably can't protest in a residential neighborhood at 2 in the morning, regardless of what you're protesting), then contact a lawyer.

Along these lines I would also advise plenty of live streams from different angles. you'll want plenty of video evidence from multiple angles regarding the police activities... hahahah... if they will let you so make sure some of them are not so obvious if at all possible.

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RE: advice neeeded on a protest - 6/15/2013 2:31:22 AM   
tweakabelle


Posts: 7522
Joined: 10/16/2007
From: Sydney Australia
Status: offline 		Best tips:
1. Make friends with one of the local TV reporters and one of the print media reporters. Promise them first reports on all events, they'll love you for it
2. Remember this campaign will be won or lost in how the media reports it - so if any of your group has media exp or skills - USE THOSE SKILLS!

GOOD LUCK!,

< Message edited by tweakabelle -- 6/15/2013 2:32:14 AM >

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RE: advice neeeded on a protest - 6/15/2013 3:37:32 AM   
Rule


Posts: 10479
Joined: 12/5/2005
Status: offline 		There is a remarkable analogy between the all observing police / dictator state - as for example in the book 1984 - and the harsh sharia laws of the Muslim populations.

Evil is only repressed, not removed, by such measures; and in fact it will grow and pervade nearly all of a population.

Repression is the short road to perdition.

The better road is to give evil sufficient rope to hang themselves.

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RE: advice neeeded on a protest - 6/15/2013 4:24:07 AM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		Jeff- some good ideas- yes. I reviewed that link- we are near the tipping point- if we can cross that threshold by November we win.

In April we ran a no name woman against a mayor in office for over 20 years- she lost 378-200. So a no name against the top brass- makes a splash. In November we are running a guy with name recognition.

Tweak- so far the reporters fear for their job- as they are strong armed our of new york who owns the paper- our mayor is frack friendly- and fracking is EVERYTHING in PA right now.


Rule- thanks for your post- it sure describes what is happening.

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RE: advice neeeded on a protest - 6/15/2013 4:37:41 AM   
Lucylastic


Posts: 40310
Status: offline 		twitter and live stream, facebook, word press/blog, get in touch with the other groups who are your political persuasion, look into other fracking protests for more info, to gather ideas, facts. find out what their "rules or guidance" are for advertising the protest. yeah get a permit, whatever the laws are, got a lawyer? just in case?
plenty of water for the weather.....


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RE: advice neeeded on a protest - 6/15/2013 4:44:50 AM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		Lucy- to be frank with you- with out facebook- we would have no group. This is how we found eachother - and thru eachother we find even more.


Like I said- we are getting closer to critical mass- I believe in local control. Issues you want for your town- may or may not be appropriate or best for my town. There are a range of issues connected to the current admin on the city AND the county level.

Every meeting I go to I see people speak out- this when a few years ago- maybe 8 people show up. Now it seems the mayor busses in his family so it looks like he is loved- and the news paper cant kiss his ass any harder because the owner of it owns fracking cos, the corruption runs all the way of to the governor.

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RE: advice neeeded on a protest - 6/15/2013 5:12:53 AM   
Kaliko


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Joined: 9/25/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

Lucy- to be frank with you- with out facebook- we would have no group. This is how we found eachother - and thru eachother we find even more.


Like I said- we are getting closer to critical mass- I believe in local control. Issues you want for your town- may or may not be appropriate or best for my town. There are a range of issues connected to the current admin on the city AND the county level.

Every meeting I go to I see people speak out- this when a few years ago- maybe 8 people show up. Now it seems the mayor busses in his family so it looks like he is loved- and the news paper cant kiss his ass any harder because the owner of it owns fracking cos, the corruption runs all the way of to the governor.



And you can bus in people, as well. I've seen it done a number of times. Do it for every meeting. But don't be disrespectful.

I'm not in favor of tactics like printing the Mayor's face on posters. What that will do is turn people off who are on the side of the Mayor. You'll only capture the audience you already have.

Where I live, we are nothing if not about local control. I know everywhere is different, so I'm curious to know how the plan was sold to you for just a few cameras but is now at a hundred. In a small town, how does a decision like that change? Who approved the budget to do so? Here, there's no way that would happen with prior public warning and approval. (In the smaller towns, anyway.) Was there notification? Was there a vote? If you're going against a majority vote in your town to approve it, then your gripe is with the people, not the local government. If it was done without making the public as fully aware as possible, then your gripe is with the government. Who do you need to address? (I'm not suggesting you don't know this or haven't thought about it. These are just my questions as I'm thinking about this because this is interesting to me. I know you may not want to get into specifics about it.)

Anyway, petitions (real petitions, not online) do sometimes work but they don't apply the real pressure that a group of people at a public meeting does. And so what if newspapers are slanted toward the Mayor? Write up your own publication and send it out bulk mail to all the residents. Or stand on the street corners and hand them out.

I've seen this a good number of times. Small town revolt against a relatively small decision (in the grand scheme of life) by the government. You can absolutely change this. And having been on the receiving side of the revolt now and again, I can tell you for sure that calm, direct, respectful, and informed discussion, with a show of support by people who have taken the time out to show up at the meeting (even if they don't even talk - if you've got just a few spokespersons) is taken more seriously than hanging posters. And hit them in the budget. Make your case not only for privacy, but money. Necessary expenditure? Was it approved? Were you (the people) lied to? Don't accuse. Just state what happened and why it's wrong.

Assuming it is wrong. :)

We have the ability to put a citizen's petition on the ballot here. Do you have a similar option? Is it too late? Are they already bought? Can you maybe make a case for halting purchase and installation until the people vote on this item specifically?

I know I went down a different road, and perhaps you guys have exhausted all of these types of possibilities already. But I've seen too often a group jump right to protest mode and I think when that happens the group can appear irrational, which will turn people away. There is sometimes a need for attention-getting activism, of course. In my (limited) experience, though, it's easier for small town government to disregard what they would think to be the hysterics of the extremists than to disregard a formidable political opposition.

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RE: advice neeeded on a protest - 6/15/2013 5:17:10 AM   
SilverMark


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Status: offline 		Give 'em hell Pahunk!

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RE: advice neeeded on a protest - 6/15/2013 5:18:26 AM   
Kaliko


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Status: offline 		But good luck! (I love this stuff.)

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