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RE: Is the Govt. "tapping" the Internet? - 7/18/2013 7:47:03 PM   
Phydeaux


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen


quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux
The data center in utah is one of 6 data centers in the US. It has the capacity of 5 zettabytes - or roughly 250 billion DVDs or roughly 100 years worth of worldwide communications.

No it does not. That much storage simply doesn't exist.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zettabyte

Not only does your link say no such thing, it cites NPR's report (excerpted below) on the estimated capacity of the NSA's Utah Data Center:

The NSA's Utah Data Center will be able to handle and process five zettabytes of data, according to William Binney, a former NSA technical director turned whistleblower. Binney's calculation is an estimate. An NSA spokeswoman says the actual data capacity of the center is classified... NSA does provide some measure of the computing power at its new data farm in Utah. It requires 65 megawatts of power, enough for 65,000 homes. It also has its own power substation.

K.

Will be is not now. The manufacturing capacity does not exist to produce even one zettabyte of storage in any sort of reasonable time frame. Consider that the largest hard drives being built right now are 10 terabytes. A zettabyte would therefore require more than 100 million such drives. If you want to use the most compact solid state storage (64GB micro SDXC cards) would require more than 10 billion such cards (plus the readers to actually connect to all of them).


Here's a headline for you from MIT technology Review: IBM builds builds biggest data drive ever: 120 Petabytes. In 2011. Hanging your shingle on whether or not the Utah center has the capacity now or in the near future seems a very slim reed - especially since you don't know when the statement was made and when the drive capacity will be or was made complete.

Credible sources are saying that the NSA is storing *all* voice traffic already, and a significant amount of internet traffic.


(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 81
RE: Is the Govt. "tapping" the Internet? - 7/18/2013 8:27:49 PM   
Esinn


Posts: 886
Joined: 6/23/2009
Status: offline 		I do not even know what a cytologist is. That spelling correction aside. I gave you a very specific and technical article. I gave you information from one of the most respected security experts on the planet (Bruce S) which included additional insight from colleagues and other professionals. I gave you information on DARPA's interest. Then I suggested you look into our friend the Cytologists work - Binney. Who you are suggesting is lying.

As of less than 2 months ago. The world was presented with its fastest computer. Many corners were slashed to get it out first.
http://www.zdnet.com/china-passes-us-on-worlds-fastest-supercomputer-list-photos-7000016912/ (If you like IT this is a worthy read)

I never suggested collecting the world's data was possible. The intention of the US IC is and has been clear. They posses a demonstrable desire to capture everything humanly possible at this precise moment. They do so regardless if it is unethical, unaffordable, necessary or unconstitutional. They do so above the law and beyond accountability. Regardless of the size this is why it is scary and extraordinarily dangerous. Until information is stolen, leaked or somehow obtained - they literally are unstoppable - no legal or constitutional standing exists. They will do so using literally tens of billions of tax payer dollars. If you include Cybercommand (10th Fleet; anchor-less navy), DARPA and other military labs you quickly hit the hundred billion mark.


The fact a "Zeta drive" does not exist does not mean it is not one is unable to store, isolate or identify indexed data of this scale on the cloud. http://www.rangeidc.com/en/project.asp
(Keywords you need to add to your repertoire: Data Scientist / Data Engineer).

Petabytes are childs play in 2013......
http://www.itproportal.com/2013/06/24/are-your-data-centres-ready-zetabyte-connundrum/

I was hoping for a technical discussion on the information I presented, it is something I am familiar with, as opposed to biology.

2010:
http://nextbigfuture.com/2010/03/darpa-wants-petaflop-computers-that-are.html

Do you know what the water bill is for the single NSA data center in the USA?
http://www.ksl.com/?sid=25978926&nid=148

Do you know how much water the 3 worlds largest data centers combine use? Google it. Prior to ARPA releasing the internet to the public no one knew it existed. The assumption we know about all the government 'programs' FLAME/Stuxnet is equally silly (Did you catch the pun?). The assumption in 2013 anything is not possible (technologically speaking when allowed by physics) when you have billions of dollars to throw at it, is not wrong - it is misinformed.

This has nothing to do with Alex Jones.



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RE: Is the Govt. "tapping" the Internet? - 7/18/2013 8:30:56 PM   
DomKen


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From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen


quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux
The data center in utah is one of 6 data centers in the US. It has the capacity of 5 zettabytes - or roughly 250 billion DVDs or roughly 100 years worth of worldwide communications.

No it does not. That much storage simply doesn't exist.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zettabyte

Not only does your link say no such thing, it cites NPR's report (excerpted below) on the estimated capacity of the NSA's Utah Data Center:

The NSA's Utah Data Center will be able to handle and process five zettabytes of data, according to William Binney, a former NSA technical director turned whistleblower. Binney's calculation is an estimate. An NSA spokeswoman says the actual data capacity of the center is classified... NSA does provide some measure of the computing power at its new data farm in Utah. It requires 65 megawatts of power, enough for 65,000 homes. It also has its own power substation.

K.

Will be is not now. The manufacturing capacity does not exist to produce even one zettabyte of storage in any sort of reasonable time frame. Consider that the largest hard drives being built right now are 10 terabytes. A zettabyte would therefore require more than 100 million such drives. If you want to use the most compact solid state storage (64GB micro SDXC cards) would require more than 10 billion such cards (plus the readers to actually connect to all of them).


Here's a headline for you from MIT technology Review: IBM builds builds biggest data drive ever: 120 Petabytes. In 2011. Hanging your shingle on whether or not the Utah center has the capacity now or in the near future seems a very slim reed - especially since you don't know when the statement was made and when the drive capacity will be or was made complete.

Credible sources are saying that the NSA is storing *all* voice traffic already, and a significant amount of internet traffic.

voice is easy. The entire internet isn't.

Also about that 120 petabyte data store, it isn't one hard drive. It is 200,000 of them.
quote:

A data repository almost 10 times bigger than any made before is being built by researchers at IBM’s Almaden, California, research lab. The 120 petabyte “drive”—that’s 120 million gigabytes—is made up of 200,000 conventional hard disk drives working together. The giant data container is expected to store around one trillion files and should provide the space needed to allow more powerful simulations of complex systems, like those used to model weather and climate.

http://www.technologyreview.com/news/425237/ibm-builds-biggest-data-drive-ever/
which comes out to being 600 gigabytes for each drive. Now you only need 10,000 of those data stores to make one zettabyte or for the math challenged 2 billion 600 gigabyte drives.

Now go check around and find the manufacturer with the capacity to build a couple of billion hard drives that were not sold.

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RE: Is the Govt. "tapping" the Internet? - 7/19/2013 1:07:52 AM   
Phydeaux


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen


quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen


quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux
The data center in utah is one of 6 data centers in the US. It has the capacity of 5 zettabytes - or roughly 250 billion DVDs or roughly 100 years worth of worldwide communications.

No it does not. That much storage simply doesn't exist.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zettabyte

Not only does your link say no such thing, it cites NPR's report (excerpted below) on the estimated capacity of the NSA's Utah Data Center:

The NSA's Utah Data Center will be able to handle and process five zettabytes of data, according to William Binney, a former NSA technical director turned whistleblower. Binney's calculation is an estimate. An NSA spokeswoman says the actual data capacity of the center is classified... NSA does provide some measure of the computing power at its new data farm in Utah. It requires 65 megawatts of power, enough for 65,000 homes. It also has its own power substation.

K.

Will be is not now. The manufacturing capacity does not exist to produce even one zettabyte of storage in any sort of reasonable time frame. Consider that the largest hard drives being built right now are 10 terabytes. A zettabyte would therefore require more than 100 million such drives. If you want to use the most compact solid state storage (64GB micro SDXC cards) would require more than 10 billion such cards (plus the readers to actually connect to all of them).


Here's a headline for you from MIT technology Review: IBM builds builds biggest data drive ever: 120 Petabytes. In 2011. Hanging your shingle on whether or not the Utah center has the capacity now or in the near future seems a very slim reed - especially since you don't know when the statement was made and when the drive capacity will be or was made complete.

Credible sources are saying that the NSA is storing *all* voice traffic already, and a significant amount of internet traffic.

voice is easy. The entire internet isn't.

Also about that 120 petabyte data store, it isn't one hard drive. It is 200,000 of them.
quote:

A data repository almost 10 times bigger than any made before is being built by researchers at IBM’s Almaden, California, research lab. The 120 petabyte “drive”—that’s 120 million gigabytes—is made up of 200,000 conventional hard disk drives working together. The giant data container is expected to store around one trillion files and should provide the space needed to allow more powerful simulations of complex systems, like those used to model weather and climate.

http://www.technologyreview.com/news/425237/ibm-builds-biggest-data-drive-ever/
which comes out to being 600 gigabytes for each drive. Now you only need 10,000 of those data stores to make one zettabyte or for the math challenged 2 billion 600 gigabyte drives.

Now go check around and find the manufacturer with the capacity to build a couple of billion hard drives that were not sold.


Again, a slim reed. You have no knowledge and no source to say it isn't built.

Regarding the rest - seagate info density in 2012 was 1TB per square inch - and with a theoretical technology limit of 60 TB per square inch. 1 billion square inches per zettabyte. Call it 10 sq inches per single platter side. 20 square inches per platter. We'll keep it to 5 platters per hd, although I've seen drives with much more. 200 square inches per hard drive, or 200 Tb per hard drive.

2 million hard drives. Use a 5.25 form factor and its 1 million hard drives. Yeah.. thats not possible. Boost the information density by 2 - and you're down to 500,000 drives.

Oh and for the record - seagate by itself has sold 2 billion hard drives.


< Message edited by Phydeaux -- 7/19/2013 1:10:46 AM >

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RE: Is the Govt. "tapping" the Internet? - 7/19/2013 7:22:38 AM   
mnottertail


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Status: offline 		That seagate thing? It got noticed.

Then of course nobody has mentioned sectoring and formatting data, nor checksums nor huffman encodings or any sort of compression algorithyms, nor Claude Shannon, nor voice scrambling tech that would be used for very important conversations, and the host of crap that sort of makes this a real hard go.

So we are down to half a millon drives, geez what is the failure rate on that? you lose a link, how is rebuilt? send everything to hollerith cards?

Look, its tinfoil. Even if they do capture the voice, use information theory from Shannon, the best compression encoding, and so on. How the fuck do they index it? How many conversations between teenagers --- What you doin? Nothin, what you doin? What you doin tonight? Dunno, you doin anythin? Who the fuck is going to listen to the millions of hours of this?

If the worlds unemployed were each given 1 side of a conversation apiece, how long would it take to get something done? 20 years?

Yeah, we are gonna need some extra turquoise and mauve and puce columns on the abacus for that calculation at the very least.


Let's go back to the steam the envelope open in the back with the rural mail carrier assets in the agency, that's proven technology, and probably the real conspiracy reason why they are shutting down saturday delivery.

tap....tap....tap.

< Message edited by mnottertail -- 7/19/2013 7:26:05 AM >

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RE: Is the Govt. "tapping" the Internet? - 7/19/2013 10:07:51 AM   
DomKen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux
Again, a slim reed. You have no knowledge and no source to say it isn't built.

Regarding the rest - seagate info density in 2012 was 1TB per square inch - and with a theoretical technology limit of 60 TB per square inch. 1 billion square inches per zettabyte. Call it 10 sq inches per single platter side. 20 square inches per platter. We'll keep it to 5 platters per hd, although I've seen drives with much more. 200 square inches per hard drive, or 200 Tb per hard drive.

2 million hard drives. Use a 5.25 form factor and its 1 million hard drives. Yeah.. thats not possible. Boost the information density by 2 - and you're down to 500,000 drives.

Oh and for the record - seagate by itself has sold 2 billion hard drives.


Where is the chip foundry that built the multiple billion solid state storage devices? Where is the factory able to build millions of beyond cutting edge hard drives? Where is the manufacturer that built the housings? Where is the meter thick fiber optic bundle leading to this place in Utah?

And you do know that with that many drives they'd be failing all the time. The whole thing would need to be at least RAID level 5, or for that big a store probably RAID 6 or 1+0 which multiply the storage needs even more, which require 3 times the storage so as to ensure no data is lost. so that triples the hard drive requirements, at least. so you're back to at least 1.5 million drives with perfect formatting, no bad sectors and no other physical issues or alignment problems that no one is building and aren't even expected for many years.

There simply isn't enough storage able to be built to do what you think is being done. And I'm willing to bet the amount of traffic on the net will continue to increase faster than storage technology.

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RE: Is the Govt. "tapping" the Internet? - 7/19/2013 10:30:21 AM   
mnottertail


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Status: offline 		Bernoulli array of 32 gig thumbdrives from wal-mart, Ken....simple when you know the tricks.

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RE: Is the Govt. "tapping" the Internet? - 7/19/2013 12:33:48 PM   
DomKen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

Bernoulli array of 32 gig thumbdrives from wal-mart, Ken....simple when you know the tricks.

lol

Sure give that a try.

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RE: Is the Govt. "tapping" the Internet? - 7/19/2013 5:13:41 PM   
Phydeaux


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Status: offline 		Well, if you and Ken want to look into it, you will find that they have a different mechanism for error correction for large drive arrays. Don't let me stop you guys from going and educating yourself.

As for indexing - again commercial indexes were doing 43 billion files in an hour. I don't know how that scales.

As for who would read all that. The answer according to the releases by Snowden is that they wouldn't. The conversations and data are available for retroactive review. So if you find a suspect you can go back and look at everything he looked at .. talked to etc.

As for the size of the drives etc. The odds are that they are adding storage as needed. Who knows what their requirements are.

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RE: Is the Govt. "tapping" the Internet? - 7/19/2013 8:29:37 PM   
DomKen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux

Well, if you and Ken want to look into it, you will find that they have a different mechanism for error correction for large drive arrays. Don't let me stop you guys from going and educating yourself.

As for indexing - again commercial indexes were doing 43 billion files in an hour. I don't know how that scales.

As for who would read all that. The answer according to the releases by Snowden is that they wouldn't. The conversations and data are available for retroactive review. So if you find a suspect you can go back and look at everything he looked at .. talked to etc.

As for the size of the drives etc. The odds are that they are adding storage as needed. Who knows what their requirements are.

RAID is how big data centers protect data. Specifically Raid levels 5, 6 and 1+0. Level 5 only requires 3 drives mirroring all data. 6 and 1+0 require at least 4.

Let's say you do grab the entirety of the internet traffic. That is each packet as a separate entry into a database, you would never store them as files it would overwhelm any filesystem. Each transmission of data across the net is broken up into packets. The maximum size is 64k but they are usually much smaller. Now you're inserting those into tables and indexes in real time. No system could handle that and searching it would be a non trivial matter, any one SQL query might take months to complete.

That is not what Snowden claimed. He claimed the NSA has access to very specific servers not to all net traffic.

Once again to grab everything requires more storage than presently exists and would require a fiber bundle equivalent to the entire backbone's bandwidth feeding into that Utah building which also does not exist.

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RE: Is the Govt. "tapping" the Internet? - 7/19/2013 9:18:56 PM   
JeffBC


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux
As for the size of the drives etc. The odds are that they are adding storage as needed. Who knows what their requirements are.

You mean, they are doing what any data center engineer would do? That's quite likely. Honestly, the funny thing about this discussion is that we already know that they WANT to collect everything. We already know they have the capability of, at least, getting the bits to the data center. The only real question is how many of those bits can they store right now and how fast can they build out that capacity? Secondarily, how efficiently can they index them.

But it's important to remember in this discussion that we are talking about the most cutting of cutting edge technology here funded by the virtually infinite pockets of the federal government. The NSA is not some band of geeks somewhere. It's a pretty safe bet that they have both more supercomputing power than anything even remotely hitting any newspaper and more storage. It's quite likely they are using both hardware and software not commercially available.

Whether they have the capability today, this instant, hardly matters in light of that. They WILL have the capability and they'll have it soon. In the meantime they are still breaking a whole raft of laws.

_____________________________

I'm a lover of "what is", not because I'm a spiritual person, but because it hurts when I argue with reality. -- Bryon Katie
"You're humbly arrogant" -- sunshinemiss
officially a member of the K Crowd

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RE: Is the Govt. "tapping" the Internet? - 7/19/2013 10:06:18 PM   
DomKen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffBC

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux
As for the size of the drives etc. The odds are that they are adding storage as needed. Who knows what their requirements are.

You mean, they are doing what any data center engineer would do? That's quite likely. Honestly, the funny thing about this discussion is that we already know that they WANT to collect everything. We already know they have the capability of, at least, getting the bits to the data center. The only real question is how many of those bits can they store right now and how fast can they build out that capacity? Secondarily, how efficiently can they index them.

But it's important to remember in this discussion that we are talking about the most cutting of cutting edge technology here funded by the virtually infinite pockets of the federal government. The NSA is not some band of geeks somewhere. It's a pretty safe bet that they have both more supercomputing power than anything even remotely hitting any newspaper and more storage. It's quite likely they are using both hardware and software not commercially available.

Whether they have the capability today, this instant, hardly matters in light of that. They WILL have the capability and they'll have it soon. In the meantime they are still breaking a whole raft of laws.

The thing about that is, chip foundries cannot be built overnight and cannot be hidden. For the NSA to really take a stab at grabbing all internet traffic would require solid state storage, hard drives are terribly inefficient space wise at that scale and the failure rates would be crippling. So they would need several chip foundries dedicated to making them solid state storage as fast as possible and that simply does not exist.

I'm sure they are storing a lot of data, they certainly monitor as much communication to and from suspected terrorists as they can and they are serious about breaking public key encryption. But all internet traffic is just laughable, it is pointless and it would be ridiculously expensive even if it was technically feasible.

Be more worried about their 3 hops investigating of phone metadata on suspected terrorist phones. The estimate is everyone on Earth is connected by 6 hops or less. So 3 hops is a whole lot of innocent people getting monitored.

< Message edited by DomKen -- 7/19/2013 10:07:16 PM >

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RE: Is the Govt. "tapping" the Internet? - 7/19/2013 10:21:24 PM   
Edwynn


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Status: offline 		The funny thing about this discussion is that it seems to present not the least bother to anyone thus far (certainly not the OP) that the corporations impose on our life in the data gathering department far more incessantly and thoroughly than the NSA could ever have need for.

I don't expect to be asked permission from an agency charged with protection of the country for them to track some of my net wanderings, but for whatever reason, I'm not as spooked by that nearly as much as I am by Google, Microsoft (Explorer), Yahoo, every media site you visit, Amazon, Ebay/PayPal, etc., the financial industry (credit card companies), the credit score Gestapo, etc., spooking me and hovering around in the cyber-alleys, stalking me every where I go.

Maybe some are more comfortable with the corporate cyber-Stasi, who's only motivation is profit and perdition, but I'm sure as fuck not.

I can assure you that the NSA knows a lot less about me than the corporate data miners/storers/sellers/traders/ etc.





< Message edited by Edwynn -- 7/19/2013 11:01:15 PM >

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RE: Is the Govt. "tapping" the Internet? - 7/19/2013 10:31:15 PM   
JeffBC


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwynn
The funny thing about this discussion is that it seems to present not the least bother to anyone thus far (certainly not the OP) that the corporations impose on our life in the data gathering department far more incessantly and thoroughly than the NSA could ever have need for.

Yeah, that would be funny if it were correct.

Still though, your point remains. I suspect the big difference between you and I is that while I mistrust google, facebook, and the like I mistrust the US Govt quite a bit more. In addition, Google doesn't have the DHS, DEA, and a host of other internal "security" groups. They just want to profit off me (LOL). It isn't quite as disturbing to me as stripping away my freedom.

_____________________________

I'm a lover of "what is", not because I'm a spiritual person, but because it hurts when I argue with reality. -- Bryon Katie
"You're humbly arrogant" -- sunshinemiss
officially a member of the K Crowd

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RE: Is the Govt. "tapping" the Internet? - 7/19/2013 10:44:52 PM   
Edwynn


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My sense of 'freedom' concerns what I have to deal with every day.

On the ground, the corporations present a much greater imposition in that regard than the government does.

I certainly agree that most of the drug laws are bogus, even the notion of sentencing 'guidelines" to be absurd, the deregulation jihad in the US causing great economic and social disruption, etc.

But the discussion is not about any of that, it's about data mining. And on that score the NSA etc. are far less an imposition on my freedom than the cyber leeches.

"On the ground," I play no favorites about who does what, their motive, whatever.

I'm just stating the fact that Google, Microsoft, etc. are far and away the greater imposition on my freedom from overt and incessant harassment than the NSA is. By far.



< Message edited by Edwynn -- 7/19/2013 10:56:33 PM >

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RE: Is the Govt. "tapping" the Internet? - 7/19/2013 11:22:41 PM   
JeffBC


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwynn
My sense of 'freedom' concerns what I have to deal with every day.

Well, let's hope my predictions of where this are all going are very wrong. This is one of those cases where I'd simply love to be wrong. But historically speaking this sort of thing doesn't end well. Governments that find the need to do MASSIVE and sweeping domestic surveillance programs generally are or become repressive.

_____________________________

I'm a lover of "what is", not because I'm a spiritual person, but because it hurts when I argue with reality. -- Bryon Katie
"You're humbly arrogant" -- sunshinemiss
officially a member of the K Crowd

(in reply to Edwynn)
Profile   Post #: 96
RE: Is the Govt. "tapping" the Internet? - 7/20/2013 7:21:26 AM   
mnottertail


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quote:


Well, if you and Ken want to look into it, you will find that they have a different mechanism for error correction for large drive arrays. Don't let me stop you guys from going and educating yourself.

As for indexing - again commercial indexes were doing 43 billion files in an hour. I don't know how that scales.


Ken already explained RAID, but yeah, I am aware of the different error mechanisms having been a computer programmer that geeked in places the depth and breath of this country, for over twenty years and creating (not alone) the E911 system (among other things) for verizon, and oh, and voice compression and recognition for automated operators for verizon. And have done most of my work in telephony and computing gizmos. Yanno, like telemarketing stuff. Hooking telephones and computers together to transform that stuff.


Yeah, cute shit on indexing, you ain't in the universe, let alone the galaxy.

Let us consider the simple word how....have you any idea of the state of voice recognition in the field of free form voice translation?

How, midwestern
Haow, Texan
'ow, cockney
HHHHHHHHHHHHHHow, posh
Huuuuuuw, indian (not native)

well, I suppose if you had a very very good detector you would probably want to transform it into soundex so that you could sort of normalize it........and then you would be able to boyer-more the search patterns......but you have no context word for word. And if looking for something..........(which is what you would use an index for)........

I will bomb your ass into the ground........I am gonna bomb his fuckin ass, we are bombing the eiffel tower wednesday at 10pm, do you have a bombadier snowmobile?

Heres a bombshell, got free tickets and went to the Megadeth concert at the Bomarcy center. It was the bomb, and boy it fuckin' near killed me, was I bombed. But I gotta hit the situation room, I'm turtling, it is touching cloth, so I gotta go bomb china.



The cascade of indexes are bigger than the data, even at a simple hash table using y = mx + b, which is going to work out about 1.4 times the data for every index, and then the joins (inner and outer), coalesces, clauses, and whatnot from the query would take hours and weeks to come up with something across the spectrum, so that you are looking for a quark in the universe.

That's one reason why cellphones have been captured for so long.........they got text on em, and there is far better error correction for text than is on fuckin cell phones.

So, we gotta go at least 4 or 5 times the data to even make any correlation by indices whatsoever.

At best, they figure out a perps foneno and then get all records from and to and then correlate those and then the ancillaries and find out what is important between here and there. (And that assumes they have access to the SS7 records from the switches to get the to and from)

I will be long dead before they can index my conversations with my family, my friends and verizon wireless bill collectors.

That's why I ain't worried, hey, I don't fuckin like it on GP, but I ain't fuckin hysterical.



< Message edited by mnottertail -- 7/20/2013 7:50:36 AM >

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Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to JeffBC)
Profile   Post #: 97
RE: Is the Govt. "tapping" the Internet? - 7/22/2013 10:44:35 PM   
Esinn


Posts: 886
Joined: 6/23/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwynn

The funny thing about this discussion is that it seems to present not the least bother to anyone thus far (certainly not the OP) that the corporations impose on our life in the data gathering department far more incessantly and thoroughly than the NSA could ever have need for.

I don't expect to be asked permission from an agency charged with protection of the country for them to track some of my net wanderings, but for whatever reason, I'm not as spooked by that nearly as much as I am by Google, Microsoft (Explorer), Yahoo, every media site you visit, Amazon, Ebay/PayPal, etc., the financial industry (credit card companies), the credit score Gestapo, etc., spooking me and hovering around in the cyber-alleys, stalking me every where I go.

Maybe some are more comfortable with the corporate cyber-Stasi, who's only motivation is profit and perdition, but I'm sure as fuck not.

I can assure you that the NSA knows a lot less about me than the corporate data miners/storers/sellers/traders/ etc.






You would be 100% correct if not 101% ignorant of the facts. The majority of the companies you mentioned. The NSA has demanded all of the records from all of those corporations - not all but you know what I mean. Yahoo, Skype, Microsoft, Google and the list goes on and on.

You are 101% correct to be terrorized by these companies too. I'd suggest this video for you:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7mnuofn_DXw

You might have to rewind it a bit. You also need to pay more attention to what is going on. Bruce S, Tice, Binney, John T - every ex IC whistle blower has commented on this migration of surveillance. Watching the video, if you care will help. Take notes don't stop there.

More likely than not - you really do not care. I hope I am wrong. If you do not know who Jacob or any of the people are he discusses, write down their names.



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RE: Is the Govt. "tapping" the Internet? - 7/22/2013 10:50:09 PM   
Esinn


Posts: 886
Joined: 6/23/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen


There simply isn't enough storage able to be built to do what you think is being done. And I'm willing to bet the amount of traffic on the net will continue to increase faster than storage technology.



I gave you some technical insight with timely links. You keep talking to this other fellow Phyrlax or whatever. It seems because he is out of his league.

What I do not understand this is what we did in WWII (with technology of that day) it is what we did in Libya in 2011 - with technology of that day. You seem to understand the danger. Yet, anyone against this despite their technical inaccuracies should be your friend. Your ego seems to be more your friend. Which will never fix anything.


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RE: Is the Govt. "tapping" the Internet? - 7/22/2013 11:13:39 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Esinn


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen


There simply isn't enough storage able to be built to do what you think is being done. And I'm willing to bet the amount of traffic on the net will continue to increase faster than storage technology.



I gave you some technical insight with timely links. You keep talking to this other fellow Phyrlax or whatever. It seems because he is out of his league.

What I do not understand this is what we did in WWII (with technology of that day) it is what we did in Libya in 2011 - with technology of that day. You seem to understand the danger. Yet, anyone against this despite their technical inaccuracies should be your friend. Your ego seems to be more your friend. Which will never fix anything.


You posted a bunch of links that had squat all to do with anyone having the storage capacity to save all internet traffic. You only presented one item that even sort of touched on the subject and it is all about the challenges of even going to petabyte/year levels of traffic not storage.

Then you lied and claimed no one knew about ARPAnet before it became publicly available. People at research universities had been using it for nearly 20 years before the government opened it to the broader public. I don't think it's existence had been classified since sometime in the 70's if it was ever classified at all.

And then to top it all off you claimed you know about the subject despite making no useful contribution and now whining about it.

I'll tell you what, show me the installed bandwidth to the Utah data center able to handle upwards of 3 zettabytes/year (as your own source says is roughly the projected total internet traffic) (that isn't a fiber bundle you could hide). Then show me the chip foundry able to build the ludicrously large amount of solid state storage to keep up with that demand. Then we'll discuss your technical acumen and why even if they could store all of that data finding anything would be an enormously time consumptive operation.

< Message edited by DomKen -- 7/22/2013 11:14:14 PM >

(in reply to Esinn)
Profile   Post #: 100
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