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Disappointment! - 6/26/2006 4:27:11 PM

KnightofMists

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Two Phrases from your Partner be they Dominant or Submissive due to a situation between the two of you.

"I feel Disappointed!"

"You have Disappointed me!"

Do you see a difference in the phrases? If so,what are they?

Editted for a damn typo... GRRRRRRRRRR

< Message edited by KnightofMists -- 6/26/2006 4:29:20 PM >

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Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

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RE: Disappointment! - 6/26/2006 4:39:28 PM

spankmepink11

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In my opinion "I feel dissapointed" suggests an accountability for ones own feelings...whether the cause be fantasy vs reality....or expectations in general. or any number of other things.

Whereas "You have dissapointed me" assigns accountability for that emotion to a someone else specifically, be it by action...words...or even inaction...(again...a number of possibilities)

To me...one is focused internally...and the other externally....if that makes sense.

(in reply to KnightofMists)

Post #: 2

RE: Disappointment! - 6/26/2006 4:40:38 PM

LaTigresse

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spank said it before me so.......what she said

(in reply to spankmepink11)

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RE: Disappointment! - 6/26/2006 4:42:17 PM

zenofeller

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the first is touchy-feely and will prompt any sane person to ditch the pussy.

the second might be a stubborn idiot, but that's easy to establish.

(in reply to KnightofMists)

Post #: 4

RE: Disappointment! - 6/26/2006 4:48:21 PM

LokisBrat

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From: Mayberry, Illinois
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I feel disapointed would fall under my personal behavior or actions that were not satisfactory. You have disapointed me would fall under anothers behavior or actions. In both cases I feel a paddlin should be suffecient.

LOKI

_____________________________

"My pleasure, your pain. Doesn't matter, its all the same"

-Loki

(in reply to zenofeller)

Post #: 5

RE: Disappointment! - 6/26/2006 4:51:49 PM

SweetSarijane

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From: KC area Missouri
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I feel disappointed puts the disappointment on yourself, you accept responsibility for feeling that way.

You have disappointed me puts the responsibility for your feeling(s) of disappointment onto another.

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Sarah2
Deviant Mind
Wild Side Readers KCSass

(in reply to LokisBrat)

Post #: 6

RE: Disappointment! - 6/26/2006 4:53:27 PM

bandit25

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To me, the first one may show disappointment in so many different factors...the scene went bad, he didn't get the reaction he expected/wanted...could be from extrenal forces. The second one is all about the disappointment being a direct result of something someone did.

(in reply to KnightofMists)

Post #: 7

RE: Disappointment! - 6/26/2006 4:57:23 PM

slavejali

Posts: 2918
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This issue came up for Master and I last night, its the first time it has come up I think. I didnt attend tkd class again and over the last 2 months havent attended much, there have been various reasons, I was injured a couple of times and even if I did go wouldnt have been able to train much, I have had work appointments, then there were the subtle reasons like, its winter and I hate being cold and going out in it, and there are a couple of students there who I just wanted to stay away from and not have anything to do with for awhile.

Anyways, Master last night told me he was disappointed I was not attending...and i knew he wasnt just dissappointed generally but disappointed in me. There really is no good reason for me not attending, any reason I could give is an excuse...and it is those exuses he was disappointed in just as much as the fact I wasnt attending.

Facts are Re:

1. Injury: I'm Masters slave and wife. I should be supporting his class even if I'm injured. I don't have to train, I could have just gone and been a presence there, helped out in some way. Injury is no excuse. Master has a right to be dissapointed in me for that excuse.

2. Work Appointments: If I really wanted to, I could have made those appointments in times that did not cross-over into training times. No excuse, Master has the right to be dissappointed in me for that too.

3. Winter: I could wear warm clothes. No excuse, Masters disappointment in me there is valid too.

4. People: Training is only 1.5 hours. I should see my commitment to supporting Master as a higher priority than me wanting some space away from those students I want space away from, after all, Master has already created avenues for me to get away from the situation on a day to day basis...why cant I give him 1.5 hours of having to endure them? No excuse...Master has a right to be disappointed in me for that too.

Those things above are things he could be dispointed in me in.

If Master was just generally disappointed it would be like say he wanted to go play golf but woke up and it was raining, the situation would have nothing to do with me.

I feel bad either way if Master feels disappointed but if he is disappointed in me, thats the worst disappointment of all.

I didnt really know how to answer this OP, hope that sufficed.

Part of me wishes or thinks Master could have prevented his disappointment in me by just ordering me to go, putting his foot down before it got to him being disappointed in me....but another part of me knows thats not a good avenue of thought..I'm not a stupid woman, I know what Master expects...I shouldnt have to be micro-managed.

Anyways the difference I see in those two statements is one is about me and the other has nothing to do with me, yet still effects me.

_____________________________

Freedom in Bondage

Different Strokes for Different Folks

"I'll always have a *soft spot* for Sadists"

(in reply to KnightofMists)

Post #: 8

RE: Disappointment! - 6/26/2006 5:00:07 PM

heartfeltsub

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As spank said it comes down to the difference between personal responsiblity and casting blame.

The first acknowledges that when we as humans are disappointed it is because of our own preconceived ideas of what "should" have happened or what we felt we deserved to have happen to us in a situation. It also means that we can "fix" the situation.

The other places the blame for our feelings on the actions of another, not only giving other people power over our emotions, but also inhibiting our ability to stop feeling disappointed. Because if we are not responsible for the way we feel, we can not change how we feel without the input of others.

(in reply to bandit25)

Post #: 9

RE: Disappointment! - 6/26/2006 5:00:09 PM

Misstoyou

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I/you statements.

You can't argue about how *I* say I'm feeling. You may not understand it, but you can't argue that I'm not having the feeling. (Okay, in reality you can, "You're really feeling sad, not disappointed," but it's considered bad form. lol )

*You* statements cast blame for how *I'm* feeling.

_____________________________

~ Miss Marie

a.k.a. "mean Lady"

(in reply to KnightofMists)

Post #: 10

RE: Disappointment! - 6/26/2006 5:09:17 PM

LadiesBladewing

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We don't typically use either of these. We tend to use "I am disappointed." For me, at least, it acknowledges the situation, but does not necessarily apply blame -- at least, until I'm certain of the reasons behind the particular disappointment I am experiencing.

We run a household that many don't survive in, because we have a strong requirement for personal accountability. We acknowledge our own feelings, and search out the source of those feelings first in ourselves, recognizing that feelings are a response to our environment -- a perception -- completely subjective. Someone else might be perfectly satisfied with what -we- find unsatisfactory or disappointing. If an individual does not share our measurement of what constitutes "satisfactory" or "pleasing" behavior, they are unlikely to choose to consistently meet those standards.

The difference between the "touchy-feely, wishy-washy" use of this pattern, and the form we employ, comes when the rubber hits the road. Though we acknowledge that others may have different perceptions of what is pleasing and what is disappointing, in our household, our perceptions are the scale by which these issues are measured. If I am displeased, there are two choices for a servant -- correct the matter so that I am no longer displeased, or find a place where the irritating behavior or unsatisfactory presentation of completion of a command is better accepted.

It's not that we don't make concessions. If we have a servant who is truly trying to do his or her best, and is stumbling, we may still be disappointed... however, if that servant comes to us FIRST, of his or her own accord, and acknowledges that he or she is having difficulty meeting my command or my standards, we will do our best to help him or her to do what it is that we ask with the outcome that we desire. If we find the flaw, and the individual is genuine in recognizing that he or she is having difficulty meeting that standard, again, we will do what we can to help. If the individual or we find that it is not possible for that person to meet the standards we hold, we will be gentle in letting him or her know that our household is not a good fit, and we may even assist in finding him or her a more suitable situation.

On the other hand, if an individual is beligerant, refuses to acknowledge our rights to our standards in a D/s situation in our own household, we are quick and clean in setting him or her outside the gate. This is one reason that we absolutely -require- that a newcomer have someplace to go and a way to survive on his or her own while he or she is in training and the situation is still under mutual consideration. Some make the decision on their own... one day, they are here in service, and then we never hear from them again. So mote it be.

ZWD

_____________________________

"Should have", "could have", "would have" and "can't" may be the most dangerous phrases in the English language.
Bladewing Enclave

(in reply to KnightofMists)

Post #: 11

RE: Disappointment! - 6/26/2006 5:09:36 PM

Mercnbeth

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quote:

"I feel Disappointed!"

"You have Disappointed me!"

KoM,
I took the approach from the "feel" aspect.

Feelings can be changed. My disappointment was caused by my perspective on the situation. What's yours? I'm willing to consider an alternative perspective.

The declarative "you HAVE disappointed me" leaves no opportunity for change. The situation must be grounds already covered, or a direct breach of responsibility.

One situation leads to discussion, the other automatically leads to consequence. They may both lead to consequence but the distinction is important to note.

(in reply to KnightofMists)

Post #: 12

RE: Disappointment! - 6/26/2006 5:13:32 PM

sophia37

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Joined: 2/7/2006
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Oh boy. In a relationship, "I feel disappointed" means you might get a long stretch of silence out of a person. "you have disappointed me" might mean, you're about to get a whole lot of shit. LOL.

(in reply to Misstoyou)

Post #: 13

RE: Disappointment! - 6/26/2006 5:41:15 PM

sharainks

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I'm with the bunch that says the first states your feelings while the second blames another for their feelings. Accepting responsibility for your own emotions is a lot more mature and aware in my book.

(in reply to sophia37)

Post #: 14

RE: Disappointment! - 6/26/2006 5:42:45 PM

LuckyAlbatross

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Joined: 10/25/2005
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quote:

"I feel Disappointed!"

This lays personal claim to a feeling and shows awareness that they are experiencing a certain emotional state at that particular time. It lays no particular blame or source to the feeling, simply that the self recognizes what the self is going through.

quote:

"You have Disappointed me!"

This lays huge claim and responsibility on the "other" person for the self's state of emotional experience. It suggests there was some way that the "other" person could have or not have caused that particular emotional state, and thus the emotional state is the "others" personal fault- usually also leading to a feeling as if the other needs to have some claim in changing the persons emotional state.

Needless to say, the first one is usually much better when working things out.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to KnightofMists)

Post #: 15

RE: Disappointment! - 6/26/2006 5:52:15 PM

CreativeDominant

Posts: 11032
Joined: 3/11/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: KnightofMists

Two Phrases from your Partner be they Dominant or Submissive due to a situation between the two of you.

"I feel Disappointed!"

"You have Disappointed me!"

Do you see a difference in the phrases? If so,what are they?

Editted for a damn typo... GRRRRRRRRRR

What seems like a simple question is not, in actuality, all that simple.

Like others on here, I too have learned that there is a difference between an "I" statement and a "you" statement. One makes me responsible, one makes someone else responsible.

However, I have also learned that while others are not responsible for the level of my feelings...no, someone else did NOT MAKE YOU hit THEM...their words and actions can be, and are, responsible for provoking an emotional response.

As slavejali noted, her actions have been the cause of her Master's disappointment. Him stating "I am disappointed" rather than "you have disappointed me" may make her feel better but is it necessarily a case where that is what should be done? I am a big believer in personal responsibility. jali seems to have little trouble realizing that she, or her actions, are the cause of her master's disappointment. She notes that she would feel bad if her master were disappointed either way but knowing he is disappointed is the harder of the two. In this case, should it not be? Couldn't this be a case...were he to say simply that he were disappointed...where another type of submissive could think to themselves "Whew...not too bad...at least it wasn't me personally that disappointed him?" because he has not helped her face that it WAS her and her actions?

No...don't throw blame around at every opportunity...but understand that there are going to be times when it comes due. If your dominant has not followed through on his responsibility, do you say "I feel let down and disappointed" or if he has SERIOUSLY abdicated on his responsibilities, do you say "YOU are not following through on your promised responsibilities to me"?

(in reply to KnightofMists)

Post #: 16

RE: Disappointment! - 6/26/2006 6:11:53 PM

genvieve

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From: SF Bay Area
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This topic often comes up in couples counselling. Or, at least it did with my parents.

The arguement is this...
if you state "When you do this, I feel this" your are stating an emotion. Emotions are not right or wrong, they just are. They can't be argued with.

If you state "When you do this, you make me feel this" your are telling the person that he or she is responsible not only for their actions...but for your emotional response as well, which not only isn't healthy...it's wrong.

-genvieve

_____________________________

In the quietness of myself, i find myself at the mercy of Your hand.

Musical Wishes Design

(in reply to CreativeDominant)

Post #: 17

RE: Disappointment! - 6/26/2006 6:20:39 PM

missturbation

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From: another planet
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Blame.
I feel disappointed says i blame myself.
You have disappointed me says they blame you.

(i thought about this one and now im not sure - over analysis?)

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If it fit's in a toaster, i can cook it.

Buying 10 item's or less is not shopping !!

(in reply to KnightofMists)

Post #: 18

RE: Disappointment! - 6/26/2006 8:08:05 PM

sweetnessforsir

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Feeling disappointed will pass . . . maybe with punishment or time.

If I have disappointed you . . . it feels more lasting . . . like it will not pass.

s

(in reply to KnightofMists)

Post #: 19

RE: Disappointment! - 6/26/2006 8:55:47 PM

Noah

Posts: 1660
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quote:

ORIGINAL: KnightofMists

Two Phrases from your Partner be they Dominant or Submissive due to a situation between the two of you.

"I feel Disappointed!"

"You have Disappointed me!"

Do you see a difference in the phrases? If so,what are they?

I would feel disappointed if this forum were not regularly catalyzed by your Socratic questions, Knight.

As to the topic, I think some people seem to take a rather one dimensional view of issues like this. I guess I'll try to describe that view as one of "What should one think, here? Having considered it carefully, here is what I think is the definitive view, for me, anyway."

Now that is fine as far as it goes and if you're only going to take one look at an issue, that might be the one.

But these things can operate at various levels simultaneously or sequentially. "Disappointment" can be someone's issue, and it might be an issue they want to or would benefit from exploring in a BDSM context. It could be the name of someone's kink, for that matter, a flavor of emotional S&M.

Expressions of disappointment, in other words, could be just as useful and rewarding as applications of paddles.

On the other hand, the speaker in your example may be a recent immigrant from a Latin country attempting to give feedback on a piercing session.

(in reply to KnightofMists)

Post #: 20

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