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Canadians: don't call police if you find skeleton - 6/18/2013 7:20:36 AM

defiantbadgirl

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If you live in Canada, don't call the police if you discover a human skeleton buried on your property.

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/ontario-couple-finds-400-old-skeleton-gets-5-141737421.html

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RE: Canadians: don't call police if you find skeleton - 6/18/2013 7:23:35 AM

Hillwilliam

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It's good to know that stupidity in government isn't only in the US.

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RE: Canadians: don't call police if you find skeleton - 6/18/2013 7:35:23 AM

Lucylastic

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Gawd no...far from it
have you heard about the Toronto Mayor?
what a clusterfuck he is

Regarding the OP....maybe the local native council will want to look into that further...being an possible native burying ground?

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RE: Canadians: don't call police if you find skeleton - 6/18/2013 8:24:36 AM

thompsonx

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

It's good to know that stupidity in government isn't only in the US.

What do you find stupid about it?

(in reply to Hillwilliam)

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RE: Canadians: don't call police if you find skeleton - 6/18/2013 8:44:52 AM

Hillwilliam

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quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

It's good to know that stupidity in government isn't only in the US.

What do you find stupid about it?

The fact that the policy is very shortsighted.

Once word of this gets out, how many landowners do you think will report skeletons they find on their property?
The policy is that if human remains are found, the landowner must pay for an archaeological examination of the entire property.
Put yourself in the place of a farmer that has a couple of hundred acres. Your plow turns up part of a pelvis.

Do you:

A. Report it to the authorities with full realization that doing so may end up bankrupting you because of the expenses required along with your inability to plant crops and putting your wife and kids on the street.

or

B. Look around to make sure no one is looking as you kick dirt over it and make a note not to plow that particular tenth of an acre in the future.

I'm guessing most landowners will choose B.
The result of that will be a loss of a nation's cultural heritage because of unreported aboriginal remains as well as no closure for the families of missing persons who would otherwise be found and identified.

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RE: Canadians: don't call police if you find skeleton - 6/18/2013 9:01:43 AM

jlf1961

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There is another solution Hill, you dig up the skeleton or skeletons, and during the dark of the moon, you rebury them in the yard of a neighbor you dont like very well.

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RE: Canadians: don't call police if you find skeleton - 6/18/2013 9:08:30 AM

blacksword404

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quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

There is another solution Hill, you dig up the skeleton or skeletons, and during the dark of the moon, you rebury them in the yard of a neighbor you dont like very well.

You forgot to clean your shovel. I can still see fresh dirt on it.

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RE: Canadians: don't call police if you find skeleton - 6/18/2013 9:26:16 AM

punisher440

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Do you:

A. Report it to the authorities with full realization that doing so may end up bankrupting you because of the expenses required along with your inability to plant crops and putting your wife and kids on the street.

or

B. Look around to make sure no one is looking as you kick dirt over it and make a note not to plow that particular tenth of an acre in the future.

Hill,there is a C. option given by a farmer in the comments of the article when I read this yesterday.He just reburied the remains he had found on his land in an area that wasn't being farmed...or you can do what Jeff suggested...

The only problem with this solution is what if it was the remains of some murder victim and the remains could possibly lead to the conviction of the murderer.

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RE: Canadians: don't call police if you find skeleton - 6/18/2013 9:42:59 AM

Hillwilliam

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The farmer in the comments was also breaking the law as it is written.

That's why I said it was a stupid law.
Apparently the purpose of the law was to ensure that human remains would be thoroughly investigated when found and the taxpayers wouldn't have to foot the bill.

Due to shortsighted legislators, they ensured that the opposite would happen.

Found human remains would rarely be reported and investigated due to the extreme potential liability.

Net result is that national heritage goes undiscovered, grieving families don't receive closure and murderers go free.

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RE: Canadians: don't call police if you find skeleton - 6/18/2013 11:33:59 AM

Real0ne

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option D, re-bury it on MNR property, then report it

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RE: Canadians: don't call police if you find skeleton - 6/18/2013 12:23:45 PM

jlf1961

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Well, a neighbor of mine has a flint deposit on his property. It was normal to discover flint tools and arrow heads, but he was digging for a foundation for a large storage barn and discovered human remains. The sheriff investigated, declared them at least a hundred years old, so one of the state colleges was contacted and a full time dig was started. Instead of him paying for the dig, the college paid him for the loss of use of the area while the dig progressed.

Seems like a good system.

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RE: Canadians: don't call police if you find skeleton - 6/18/2013 12:35:18 PM

Hillwilliam

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quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

Well, a neighbor of mine has a flint deposit on his property. It was normal to discover flint tools and arrow heads, but he was digging for a foundation for a large storage barn and discovered human remains. The sheriff investigated, declared them at least a hundred years old, so one of the state colleges was contacted and a full time dig was started. Instead of him paying for the dig, the college paid him for the loss of use of the area while the dig progressed.

Seems like a good system.

Sounds like an excellent system.

It makes people much more likely to report remains.
that means more criminals will be caught and families will receive closure.

_____________________________

Kinkier than a cheap garden hose.

Whoever said "Religion is the opiate of the masses" never heard Right Wing talk radio.

Don't blame me, I voted for Gary Johnson.

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RE: Canadians: don't call police if you find skeleton - 6/18/2013 12:53:23 PM

jlf1961

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Now if you want to get rid of a body, there are a number of compounds that will dissolve flesh and bone, or there are pig farms all over the country...

Of course, instead of murder, I would actually prefer to erase every record of someone's existence. Every hard and electronic record from birth to every aspect of someone's life.

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Boy, it sure would be nice if we had some grenades, don't you think?

You cannot control who comes into your life, but you can control which airlock you throw them out of.

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RE: Canadians: don't call police if you find skeleton - 6/18/2013 1:28:30 PM

BamaD

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stupidity in government

redundant

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RE: Canadians: don't call police if you find skeleton - 6/18/2013 1:37:02 PM

DaddySatyr

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Joined: 8/29/2011
From: Pittston, Pennsyltucky
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quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

stupidity in government

redundant

Not only is it redundant but it's really not needed or necessary ... Wait!

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RE: Canadians: don't call police if you find skeleton - 6/18/2013 4:09:51 PM

thompsonx

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

It's good to know that stupidity in government isn't only in the US.

What do you find stupid about it?

The fact that the policy is very shortsighted.

Once word of this gets out, how many landowners do you think will report skeletons they find on their property?
The policy is that if human remains are found, the landowner must pay for an archaeological examination of the entire property.
Put yourself in the place of a farmer that has a couple of hundred acres. Your plow turns up part of a pelvis.

Do you:

A. Report it to the authorities with full realization that doing so may end up bankrupting you because of the expenses required along with your inability to plant crops and putting your wife and kids on the street.

or

B. Look around to make sure no one is looking as you kick dirt over it and make a note not to plow that particular tenth of an acre in the future.

I'm guessing most landowners will choose B.
The result of that will be a loss of a nation's cultural heritage because of unreported aboriginal remains as well as no closure for the families of missing persons who would otherwise be found and identified.

I should think that there are more than just those two choices.
If it is a murder victim of relatively recent vintage then it is is a push and he has no real costs except the lack of use of that protion of his property for the duration of the criminal investigation.
If on the other hand it is a relec of anthropological or archialogical value then it would seem that farmer brown can virtually "write his own ticket"
I have first hand knowledge of one such dig outside of barstow ca. where the owner reaped some meaningful tax advantage out of some "useless desert".
I find the opportunity for entrepenuership and free enterprise to be manifest in such a situation

< Message edited by thompsonx -- 6/18/2013 4:13:39 PM >

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RE: Canadians: don't call police if you find skeleton - 6/18/2013 4:41:55 PM

pahunkboy

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So the problem is a poorly written law. No shock there.

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RE: Canadians: don't call police if you find skeleton - 6/18/2013 4:43:57 PM

Hillwilliam

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quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

I should think that there are more than just those two choices.
If it is a murder victim of relatively recent vintage then it is is a push and he has no real costs except the lack of use of that protion of his property for the duration of the criminal investigation.
If on the other hand it is a relec of anthropological or archialogical value then it would seem that farmer brown can virtually "write his own ticket"
I have first hand knowledge of one such dig outside of barstow ca. where the owner reaped some meaningful tax advantage out of some "useless desert".
I find the opportunity for entrepenuership and free enterprise to be manifest in such a situation

The topic is about a law in Canada, not California. Buy a map.
As for your other point, a typical person cannot tell the difference between a dry bone that belongs to a murder victim from last year and an aboriginal bone from the last millennium.

As for farmer Brown "Writing his own ticket" maybe you should actually read the article. The landowner is out $5000 and that's just to have a back yard looked at. A farmer with hundreds of acres could be out 6 or 7 figures easily. Would you care to risk that?

Hell, most people can't tell the difference between a deer rib and a human rib, much less estimate its age.
As for entrepreneurship, the government and whatever native group was involved would sue you out of your pubes.
Your logic fails miserably.

< Message edited by Hillwilliam -- 6/18/2013 4:48:10 PM >

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Whoever said "Religion is the opiate of the masses" never heard Right Wing talk radio.

Don't blame me, I voted for Gary Johnson.

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Post #: 18

RE: Canadians: don't call police if you find skeleton - 6/18/2013 8:40:37 PM

graceadieu

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Joined: 3/20/2008
From: Maryland
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quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

Well, a neighbor of mine has a flint deposit on his property. It was normal to discover flint tools and arrow heads, but he was digging for a foundation for a large storage barn and discovered human remains. The sheriff investigated, declared them at least a hundred years old, so one of the state colleges was contacted and a full time dig was started. Instead of him paying for the dig, the college paid him for the loss of use of the area while the dig progressed.

Seems like a good system.

Man, I bet that was a great learning opportunity for the college's archeology students!

I took an archeology class once, and we went and dug in a local spot where there had been a factory 100+ years ago that had been demolished and overgrown. Even though all we found were bricks and places where you could see where the factory floor still was, it was still really cool. Digging for historic human remains, wow.

(in reply to jlf1961)

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RE: Canadians: don't call police if you find skeleton - 6/19/2013 10:51:05 AM

SomeMutt

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There is a similar issue with the Endangered Species Act in the US. Since the presence of an endangered animal or plant on your property can limit or prohibit your use of the property, the non-corp property owner (I'll get to corps in a sec) eliminates the endangered species.

Corps get around this by the tried and tested method of throwing money at the problem via lawyers. Have your own legal department and the problem goes away. Be a private landowner or farmer and you're kinda screwed.

Oh, and the compensation from the Feds for the loss of your land?

$0.00

I'd rather find the $5,000 skeleton...

(in reply to punisher440)

Post #: 20

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