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RE: Slave Rights - 6/27/2006 4:08:18 AM   
bandit25


Posts: 3029
Joined: 6/18/2005
Status: offline 		Loki is right.  It depends upon what the two negotiate.  Despite another thread, I understand why anyone would stay in a relationship that does not fulfill her/him, slave or not.

(in reply to michaelGA2)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: Slave Rights - 6/27/2006 5:03:07 AM   
peterK50


Posts: 433
Joined: 1/12/2006
Status: offline 		Slave rights end where Masters-Mistresses responsibilities begin. That's why we're slaves. Choose carefully my brothers & sisters.

_____________________________

Religion Is About Seeking Knowledge, Not Knowing All The Answers.

(in reply to feastie)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: Slave Rights - 6/27/2006 5:15:38 AM   
shivvy


Posts: 746
Joined: 3/25/2006
From: Ireland, living in Kent, England.
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BitaTruble

I had the right to waive all my rights.. and so I did. There is the law of the land and the law of the Master. I follow the law of the Master who follows 'most' of the laws of the land.

These days I'm in to lefts as I have no needs of rights.

Celeste


lol - That's funny

_____________________________


(¯`v´¯)
`*.¸.*´
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(¸.•´ (¸.•´ .•´ ¸¸.•¨¯`•.εΐз¸¸.·*´¯`v´¯`*·.¸¸ـ εΐз ~*luv shivvy*~ ـ εΐз

xxx
Owned and collared by SavageFaerie and Master P

(in reply to BitaTruble)
Profile   Post #: 43
RE: Slave Rights - 6/27/2006 5:20:00 AM   
Wildfleurs


Posts: 1650
Joined: 9/24/2004
From: Connecticut
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: michaelGA2

i was just talking to a friend from CM and the topic popped up about slave rights. i was always told a slave has only two imalienable rights:

1. the right to beg for a collar
2. the right to beg for release

is my information incorrect?



The most succinct way I can put it for us is that I have whatever rights my owner grants me.

C~

_____________________________

"Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid." -despair.com

~~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
The heart of it all - http://www.wildfleurs.com
~~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~

(in reply to michaelGA2)
Profile   Post #: 44
RE: Slave Rights - 6/27/2006 7:06:19 AM   
MasterFireMaam


Posts: 5587
Joined: 3/1/2006
From: Charleston, WV
Status: offline 		You're going to get as many answers as there are people since this boils down to an opinion question. In the end, it's all about what is negotiated. Depending on that, you'll get a dichotomy of answers from "they only have the right to leave" to "they have basic human rights" to a more relaxed arrangement that includes privacy and ownership of property.

And, let's not go into the whole sub vs slave definition debate!

Master Fire

_____________________________

The power of who we are can be intoxicating. The power of who we could be is humbling.
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(in reply to michaelGA2)
Profile   Post #: 45
RE: Slave Rights - 6/27/2006 8:31:58 AM   
TxBadMan


Posts: 198
Joined: 4/7/2006
From: Moody, Texas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: michaelGA2

i was just talking to a friend from CM and the topic popped up about slave rights. i was always told a slave has only two imalienable rights:

1. the right to beg for a collar
2. the right to beg for release

is my information incorrect?



My girls have the right to say no to me; as long as they understand that in doing so, I have the right to terminate the relationship.
My girls have the right to walk away from the relationship; as long as they understand that by in doing so, they will get no second chance.
My girls have the right to openly defy me; as long as they understand that in doing so, I have the right to punish as I see fit, or to terminate the relationship.

My girls have the right to speak up, respectfully, and request that we discuss something that is bothering them; in doing so, they will earn the right to speak freely when and wherever they feel the need.
My girls have the right to use a safe-word; I encourage it with them. This is not a right that I have given them either; it is one that they came to the relationship with.
My girls have the right to be happy. If they are not finding that with me, they have the right to say so; we then sit down, discuss where the problems lie, and try to solve them. If they can not be solved, they have the right to leave the relationship, knowing that my respect for them is still intact.

My girls have all the rights that any human being has. They are able to excercise them at any time; as long as they also accept responsibility for any action that may occur.

_____________________________

Chris



(in reply to michaelGA2)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: Slave Rights - 6/27/2006 8:40:29 AM   
SaphireLynn


Posts: 145
Joined: 2/15/2005
Status: offline 		a slave is no more than a piece of property... now he/she can leave the relationship legally as slavery is not allowed in the USA but in a D/s relation it is the same as it was in the Civil War days. 

_____________________________

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
But he that dares not grasp the thorn
Should never crave the rose.
~~~Anne Bronte~~~
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

(in reply to Lordandmaster)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: Slave Rights - 6/27/2006 8:41:52 AM   
ownedgirlie


Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline 		(Fast Reply)

My rights are those which he has chosen to give me.  I'm with Celeste on this one.  Master and I do not discuss rights, nor lack of rights.  We are simply what we are.  To those who say even if it is my reality, it is still a fantasy, continue defining others by your dictionary; it matters not.  Perhaps it is fantasy to those who do not comprehend it - I can certainly understand that.

(in reply to TxBadMan)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: Slave Rights - 6/27/2006 8:43:26 AM   
mistoferin


Posts: 8284
Joined: 10/27/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SaphireLynn
in a D/s relation it is the same as it was in the Civil War days. 


A D/s relationship is not the same as an M/s relationship and does not always have a slave as one of its participants

edited to add that even an M/s relationship is nothing like it was in Civil War days...

< Message edited by mistoferin -- 6/27/2006 8:44:53 AM >

_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

(in reply to SaphireLynn)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: Slave Rights - 6/27/2006 8:44:41 AM   
txpet


Posts: 200
Joined: 4/29/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TxBadMan

quote:

ORIGINAL: michaelGA2

i was just talking to a friend from CM and the topic popped up about slave rights. i was always told a slave has only two imalienable rights:

1. the right to beg for a collar
2. the right to beg for release

is my information incorrect?



My girls have the right to say no to me; as long as they understand that in doing so, I have the right to terminate the relationship.
My girls have the right to walk away from the relationship; as long as they understand that by in doing so, they will get no second chance.
My girls have the right to openly defy me; as long as they understand that in doing so, I have the right to punish as I see fit, or to terminate the relationship.

My girls have the right to speak up, respectfully, and request that we discuss something that is bothering them; in doing so, they will earn the right to speak freely when and wherever they feel the need.
My girls have the right to use a safe-word; I encourage it with them. This is not a right that I have given them either; it is one that they came to the relationship with.
My girls have the right to be happy. If they are not finding that with me, they have the right to say so; we then sit down, discuss where the problems lie, and try to solve them. If they can not be solved, they have the right to leave the relationship, knowing that my respect for them is still intact.

My girls have all the rights that any human being has. They are able to excercise them at any time; as long as they also accept responsibility for any action that may occur.


::smile::
Pretty much what i was trying to say from the "other side" .


_____________________________

Ken's dirty girl,
txpet jennie

(in reply to TxBadMan)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: Slave Rights - 6/27/2006 8:44:51 AM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie
My rights are those which he has chosen to give me.  I'm with Celeste on this one.  Master and I do not discuss rights, nor lack of rights.  We are simply what we are.  To those who say even if it is my reality, it is still a fantasy, continue defining others by your dictionary; it matters not.  Perhaps it is fantasy to those who do not comprehend it - I can certainly understand that.

I agree completely. 

Granted I think healthy relationships involve the slave having general privileges that most people in the world have and consider rights- privilege to make phone calls, visit family, be productive with their lives in general, ask questions when necessary, etc.

But it would be a grave mistake to confuse privileges with rights and one needs to know exactly how they define each of them before entering into a commitment.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to ownedgirlie)
Profile   Post #: 51
RE: Slave Rights - 6/27/2006 8:49:41 AM   
txpet


Posts: 200
Joined: 4/29/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

quote:

ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie
My rights are those which he has chosen to give me.  I'm with Celeste on this one.  Master and I do not discuss rights, nor lack of rights.  We are simply what we are.  To those who say even if it is my reality, it is still a fantasy, continue defining others by your dictionary; it matters not.  Perhaps it is fantasy to those who do not comprehend it - I can certainly understand that.

I agree completely. 

Granted I think healthy relationships involve the slave having general privileges that most people in the world have and consider rights- privilege to make phone calls, visit family, be productive with their lives in general, ask questions when necessary, etc.

But it would be a grave mistake to confuse privileges with rights and one needs to know exactly how they define each of them before entering into a commitment.


::smile::
Exactly why the term "rights" is where i get stuck.
If "rights" can be taken away and/or curbed, then these things can be called "rights" but if "rights" are concrete then there is no such thing.

_____________________________

Ken's dirty girl,
txpet jennie

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
Profile   Post #: 52
RE: Slave Rights - 6/27/2006 8:53:06 AM   
amayos


Posts: 1553
Joined: 6/2/2004
From: New England
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: michaelGA2

i was just talking to a friend from CM and the topic popped up about slave rights. i was always told a slave has only two imalienable rights:

1. the right to beg for a collar
2. the right to beg for release

is my information incorrect?



In my mind, the following is what an owner is obligated by mere pragmatism to concede a slave:

• Shelter
• Adequate food & water
• Sufficient sleep
• Base discipline

All beyond this hinges upon the owner's preference. A slave has no rights, but privileges granted by its owner—which can be taken away just as easily as given.

(in reply to michaelGA2)
Profile   Post #: 53
RE: Slave Rights - 6/27/2006 9:02:22 AM   
ownedgirlie


Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

quote:

ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie
My rights are those which he has chosen to give me.  I'm with Celeste on this one.  Master and I do not discuss rights, nor lack of rights.  We are simply what we are.  To those who say even if it is my reality, it is still a fantasy, continue defining others by your dictionary; it matters not.  Perhaps it is fantasy to those who do not comprehend it - I can certainly understand that.

I agree completely. 

Granted I think healthy relationships involve the slave having general privileges that most people in the world have and consider rights- privilege to make phone calls, visit family, be productive with their lives in general, ask questions when necessary, etc.

But it would be a grave mistake to confuse privileges with rights and one needs to know exactly how they define each of them before entering into a commitment.


I guess the word "rights" just never came into discussion with he and I.  It isn't important - I am allowed what he allows me and it works for me.  Be they privileges or rights, I am allowed certain things which elevate my life.  He and I don't discuss  words, definitions, or what they are called...they just are.

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
Profile   Post #: 54
RE: Slave Rights - 6/27/2006 9:03:22 AM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: michaelGA2

i was just talking to a friend from CM and the topic popped up about slave rights. i was always told a slave has only two imalienable rights:

1. the right to beg for a collar
2. the right to beg for release

is my information incorrect?



it is this slave's opinion that it would depend upon both parties perception of the slave's role and definition of the word "slave".  in the context of an M/s relationship this slave understands it to be more like indentured servitude(Revolutionary War era) than of involuntary slavery(Civil War era type, et al.), depending upon the parties involved and the negotiations that take place before the service commences.  To date, this slave has only been made aware of one person who claims their submission/power was "taken" and not "given" and she has already given her opinion here on this thread.
 
and as far as rights go, at least here in the US, as free as we like to think we are, we do NOT have the legal right to become someone's slave, even if we want to.

(in reply to michaelGA2)
Profile   Post #: 55
RE: Slave Rights - 6/27/2006 9:05:17 AM   
kittinSol


Posts: 16926
Status: offline 		How can it be slavery if there are negotiating terms involved? I am having a real bother figuring this slavery stuff out.

_____________________________



(in reply to Wulfchyld)
Profile   Post #: 56
RE: Slave Rights - 6/27/2006 9:08:08 AM   
ownedgirlie


Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth
and as far as rights go, at least here in the US, as free as we like to think we are, we do NOT have the legal right to become someone's slave, even if we want to.

That goes without saying....BUT...we can willingly give ourselves over to another and thus decide from that point forward, to abide by his/her/their rule.  For some, the heart is compelled so strongly they truly do not feel any other options but to submit and obey lovingly and true.  Laws or no laws, they are enslaved.

(in reply to Mercnbeth)
Profile   Post #: 57
RE: Slave Rights - 6/27/2006 9:24:32 AM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth
and as far as rights go, at least here in the US, as free as we like to think we are, we do NOT have the legal right to become someone's slave, even if we want to.

That goes without saying....BUT...we can willingly give ourselves over to another and thus decide from that point forward, to abide by his/her/their rule.  For some, the heart is compelled so strongly they truly do not feel any other options but to submit and obey lovingly and true.  Laws or no laws, they are enslaved.


this slave wholeheartedly agrees, owned!!!!

the foregoing was just an observation this slave wanted to interject...all this discussion about the "rights" of a slave got this slave thinking....really, we who consider ourselves to be slaves have no "legal" stake to the claim--as was mentioned by a few of the posters... the idea of designating "rights" to a slave in the context of the laws of the land are always going to be at oppostion to the laws of Master, unless we somehow magically gain the right to enter into a Master/slave relationship.  therefore, as a group devoid of legal recognition, we have only the rights our owners allow us to have, unless we wake up one morning and decide that the law of the land is more important than Master's law or our spiritual beliefs, and we, as others have previously stated,  have no "right" to even call ourselves "slave", rendering this entire thread pointless.

< Message edited by Mercnbeth -- 6/27/2006 9:26:53 AM >

(in reply to ownedgirlie)
Profile   Post #: 58
RE: Slave Rights - 6/27/2006 10:16:49 AM   
IronBear


Posts: 9008
Joined: 6/19/2005
From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
Status: offline 		A Gorean slave or potential slave who has approached me, will at the beginning have several lengthy discussions in which I need to know her percieved limits, and her understanding of slavery in a Gorean Home. let's assume for the point of this discussion that we are both happy and she has satisified Neets and passed the Sasha Test, I will allow her to beg a House Collar. She will understand that at the time of collaring she will have no rights what so ever. As part of the collering ceremony, I will formally grant her the basic rights of begging release, not having to do anything illegal, to discuss anything with me at the apropriate time. To ask questions at the apropriate times, the right to breath and live, the right to eat (when and what I decide ~ usually fits I with whet we are all doing and available food and including special diets for health reasins). The right to wear clothes (within the home) is a privilage which is earned and not a right. Limits and safe words are not a right. I will set her limits and if we are doing BDSM things, I may allow her a safe word untill I have established the specific max tollerance fior that activity.(the safe word is for the protection of my property). Under Law she has all the right of any other person in Aussie, I simply reaffirm them in a way that there is a jointless meld of Lifestyle and compliance (mostly) with the laws of society. In all matters of her behaviour and being I take ultimate respoonsibility.... 

_____________________________

Iron Bear

Master of Bruin Cottage

http://www.bruincottage.org

Your attitude, words & actions are yours. Take responsibility for them and the consequences they incur.

D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F.

(in reply to Mercnbeth)
Profile   Post #: 59
RE: Slave Rights - 6/27/2006 10:44:12 AM   
BreakMeShakeMe


Posts: 339
Joined: 6/6/2006
Status: offline 		                            

_____________________________

Wisdom is knowing what to do, Skill is knowing how to, Virtue is just doing it.

(in reply to IronBear)
Profile   Post #: 60
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