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RE: Overweight bdsm women - 6/28/2006 10:54:36 AM   
newly42


Posts: 23
Joined: 6/26/2005
Status: offline 		Hello everybody.
I'm a latin woman (born and living in Peru), interested in being part of the life style.  We don't have munches or sex stores or bdsm clubs or any sort of "openminded" places here in my country.  We only have night clubs were you can find nice women bodies dancing almost nude, and in less proportion, a few men strippers places for women.
We have "overweight" problems with our children, but worse than the healthy troubles, it is about rejection what they have to fight against.   A 'fatty" kid is the center of every joke the other kids make.  Young boys don't talk to fatty girls.  Young girls feel embarrased if they have a fatty boy friend. 
Once you grow, the trouble is bigger.  Very fat persons won't get a job, won't get a man, etc. etc etc.

I am now a fat person, i had extra pounds since i can remember and even i was not a fatty i was the center of the others jokes because i was one of the best students (probably because i didn't dare to be rejected and i dedicated my young existence to reading and learning).
I don't have any trauma or abused stuff while young.  I tried to loose weight for more than half of my life trying to be physically "perfect", as i though i must be.   But when i ended the University i looked to the mirror with attention for the very first time and i enjoyed what i saw.  I enjoyed my rounded hips and my big breasts, i enjoyed my thighs and arms.  I enjoyed every inch and every pound of myself.   I started to live then.   But  ohh surprise!  Once i accepted myself, i found there were a lot of men interested in me i didn't notice while feeling self compasion.    Yes, there are men and women that like overweighted partners, there are those who like the "twiggy" look and others like the "Barbie & Ken" look.   Which is right, which is wrong...  who can answer this question and do it well?
Owerweight is not worse than stupidity; we can loose weight, are they able to get intelligence? 
Are all the blondies just stupid?   I don't think so.  It must be only a joke.   Probably coming from those who are not blondes and would like to be.
Is it bad to have a small pennis?  Is it good t have a big one?  When someone wants to show me his big pennis i told him, i don't care about size, it is what he is able to do with his pennis what really counts.
There are thin doms and dommes, there are big doms and dommes.  There are thin subs or slaves, there are big subs or slaves.  This is not about their height or weight, it is about what they feel or what they like, or what they need.
Criticism others without looking at your own faults or virtues is the origin of racism and hate.  
Are there more overweighted people in bdsm sites than in others?   I don't think so.   There are a lot of them everywhere.  It is just that probably most of them feel more comfortable to show theirselves in a place where they think they won't be rejected or criticized.
Since i joined online bdsm sites, i have met a lot of people.  Most of them just fakes.  For example, there are those Masters-Mistress/Dominants ready to humilliate a man-woman/sub/slave online, but in their real lives their wives or husbands, even their moms or dads or their children or friends or lovers, bosses or coworkers,  do with them whatever they want, and they are just trying to feel less bad pretending they are strong.
At the same time i have met short people who are really proud of theirselves and they are really dominants in their real lives.  I remember the first thing i thought was : how this tiny man would be able to dominate me if i can blow and he would fall down?  And after talking to him, i got the answer :  ATTITUDE.   He acts like a dominant, he feels like a dominant, he thinks like a dominant, he treat you as the sub you are.  It is not about being offensive or not polite.  It is just about feeling self respect and giving the respect anyone deserves.
Please, don't put labels to people.  We all are human beings.  Maybe straight, maybe gays; maybe thin, maybe thick; maybe clever, maybe fool; maybe young, maybe old; maybe black, maybe white, maybe red, maybe yellow or brown skin.
What really counts is who you really are and how do you feel about it.

I never had a bdsm experience for real, not yet.  I'm looking for it.  And i'm sure i would enjoy it.  And what really atracts me about the life style is that EVERYONE can be who really wants to be.  Nobody judges, nobody critices, nobody rejects those who are different.
Why then to start doing it in this place?     I'm not sure about the purpose of the one who started this.  Maybe just curiosity.  But read all the responses.  There are logic ones, there are agressive ones, there are offensive ones also.  Why?  Every person is a entire world by his/her self.   Can't talk about the others as they all have the same thoughts or feelings.
Maybe there are big men or women who are satisfied with theirselves.  Maybe there are those who have poor selfsteem.  Maybe they are sick.  Maybe they can't control theirselves.   The same about those who drinks or smoke.  The same for those who enjoy giving or receiving pain or being hurt or hurting others.  Maybe we like all those people, maybe we don't.   If you like them, just interact with them.  If you don't, just keep away.  I don't like morons, rude people, rednecks.  I don't judge them.  But it is my choice to interact with them or to keep them away from me.  911937
But i don't think the most of them are part of the lifestyle.  They are in everyplace.  As big women.  As short people.  As assholes.  As weirds. As small pennis.  As enormous breasts.  As shy people.  As open minded or old fashioned people.
The difference is that we can talk freely in life style sites  and we can expose our souls and bodies freely there.

In my country, we fat women must hide our bodies.   I don't hide it because i enjoy it, but that feeling doesn't stop the others to criticize me or to laugh about me.  Even those who likes fat women won't say it louder because they would be the center of the jokes too.  Yes, there are those who doesn't care.  And i was lucky about it.  I am a loved woman.  I don't have to beg for love.  But i know people who does.   When a man of my country look at my pictures, he sends me vulgar messages.  And I have to admit that dirty talk in my language is horrible or at least i feel awful about it.   But when an european or an american man looks at my pictures, they seem to be impressed because of my beauty or my sensuality, not specifically because i am big or not.  They don't care about it.  And i'm talking of men from bdsm and from vanilla world too.   And the times i was rejected was not because i was big or overweighted, it was mostly because i am not looking for games.
So what's the matter with overweighted women?  We are here, we are there, we are loved we are not, but we are not freaks.  Don't get so surprised if you find us everywhere.  We are part of this world, a very important part, a heavy part....LOL

Syl (subbie to be), latinbabygirl somewhere, newly 42 here

< Message edited by newly42 -- 6/28/2006 11:07:12 AM >

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RE: Overweight bdsm women - 6/28/2006 11:05:26 AM   
MistressSassy66


Posts: 1675
Joined: 11/5/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: agirl




Hello zumala,

I agree. There's a few people at my gym that are a LOT fitter than I am even though they look *fatter* than I do. Having said that ...... It's not too hard to tell someone that's sporting a lot of fat from someone that's sporting a lot of muscle.

Apart from medical issues, people are generally over-weight because they eat too much or too much of the type of food that will result in weight gain and they do not move around enough. You can gorge on lambs lettuce and barely gain an ounce...... if you gorge on choc, you'll pile it on.

For most people ( not all, ok)....it's perfectly possible to be whatever *size* you wish to be, for your genetic build.........being fat is attainable , being slim is attainable, being fit is attainable........ it's mostly choice.

agirl








I hate to tell you this...but its not just medical conditions that make people
big.There is family history,genectics and metabolism.

And not to mention it matters whatever you 'gorge' on you can get fat.
Even if its just fruit...overeating is overeating no matter what food is on your plate.
Moderation and exercise are the keys to staying fit.



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In the Immortal Words of Bob....Fuck the dumb shit.

"I love you not only for what you are,But for what I am when I'm with you."- Opening line from a poem by Roy Croft

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RE: Overweight bdsm women - 6/28/2006 11:13:47 AM   
slavelorrie


Posts: 3
Joined: 6/27/2006
Status: offline 		Wow!  I post for the first time and instantly get accused of being a...."discussion killer?"  

"I think that lorrie was proposing  to kill this discussion by supplanting it with the infamous Ice Cream Cone discussion."?

Pfft...was merely a question, as i had not posted before on this forum,  i'm real new to this group, AND i wanted to try to add some lighthearted humor into a sometimes very serious, very personal subject of being over-weight. And yes, i am a bbw.




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RE: Overweight bdsm women - 6/28/2006 11:18:21 AM   
DelRey


Posts: 314
Joined: 12/3/2005
Status: offline
quote:


Making observations about fat people is a sensitive area for sure.  But there's no reason it should turn into the defensive backlash that it always seems to.  Yes, fat people rock like anyone else.  Yes, lots of people love lots of fat people.  No arguments there.

I'm a fat chick.  I'm REALLY looking forward to moving into a place with a great gym and 8 pools and two men who have been ordered to keep me in line on my diet and exercise and want to lose weight, for my health, my self esteem and so I can fit back into all my awesome size 14 clothes that I don't fit into right now because I've gained weight over the last year.

I understand the good and the bad bout being fat.  I can discuss the issues about fatness and my own observations about fat people without turning it into a personal emotional defensive posture.  Most people don't seem to be able to do that.




Two Great points L.A. bravo....... I only wish you would have inialated the BBW acronym.


< Message edited by DelRey -- 6/28/2006 11:22:13 AM >

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RE: Overweight bdsm women - 6/28/2006 11:24:02 AM   
litleone8620


Posts: 3669
Joined: 6/12/2006
Status: offline 		Don't worry lorrie. We all want this thread to die. And your avatar will change with the amount of posts you....well.... post.



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RE: Overweight bdsm women - 6/28/2006 11:31:27 AM   
agirl


Posts: 4530
Joined: 6/14/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MistressSassy66

quote:

ORIGINAL: agirl




Hello zumala,

I agree. There's a few people at my gym that are a LOT fitter than I am even though they look *fatter* than I do. Having said that ...... It's not too hard to tell someone that's sporting a lot of fat from someone that's sporting a lot of muscle.

Apart from medical issues, people are generally over-weight because they eat too much or too much of the type of food that will result in weight gain and they do not move around enough. You can gorge on lambs lettuce and barely gain an ounce...... if you gorge on choc, you'll pile it on.

For most people ( not all, ok)....it's perfectly possible to be whatever *size* you wish to be, for your genetic build.........being fat is attainable , being slim is attainable, being fit is attainable........ it's mostly choice.

agirl








I hate to tell you this...but its not just medical conditions that make people
big.There is family history,genectics and metabolism.

And not to mention it matters whatever you 'gorge' on you can get fat.
Even if its just fruit...overeating is overeating no matter what food is on your plate.
Moderation and exercise are the keys to staying fit.




 Hello MistressSassy,

I know this ......(Have you TRIED gorging on lambs lettuce?...lol)

I also mentioned genetic build.

I spoke *generally* and made that clear .

Evenso, for the majority of over-weight people, what i said, still is the case.

agirl




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RE: Overweight bdsm women - 6/28/2006 12:34:30 PM   
darkinshadows


Posts: 4145
Joined: 6/2/2004
From: UK
Status: offline
Ok... I have to ask.
 
Why should this thread die?  I find it intriguing and agree with Em - there were alot of good points brought up that people don't feel comfortable admiting.
 
It is noticable that there are larger people involved in BDSM.
 
Overweight is a more touchy subject than slimness - why?
 
Why is ok to slate slimmer people and name call - and no one really bats an eye, but mention bbw and it is 'obviously' a personal attack on a section.
 
Just for those three reasons alone the thread shouldn't die.  It's easy to look past the stupidity comments - but again, it's laziness and responsibility that people never really understood the OP in the first place.
This thread alone has caused the posting of at least three other good posts - so it can't all be bad.
 
Peace and Rapture


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RE: Overweight bdsm women - 6/28/2006 12:44:40 PM   
litleone8620


Posts: 3669
Joined: 6/12/2006
Status: offline 		I've wanted this thread to die just to stop the ignorant comments. And yes, for pages upon pages theres only been a couple ignorant posts.

Maybe this thread shouldn't die.

I think overweight is a touchy subject because it isn't PC to comment on someone's weight. Why do women get so touchy about their age?



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RE: Overweight bdsm women - 6/28/2006 12:47:23 PM   
Caretakr


Posts: 1221
Joined: 6/24/2006
Status: offline 		Because society programs people to think of fat folks as rejects. As far as women and age, it's linked to attractiveness for breeding.

But there are a lot of rejection sterotypes out there-try to get taken seriously as a Master, if you are under five feet tall.

< Message edited by Caretakr -- 6/28/2006 12:48:39 PM >

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RE: Overweight bdsm women - 6/28/2006 12:59:18 PM   
litleone8620


Posts: 3669
Joined: 6/12/2006
Status: offline 		Try to get taken seriously period if you're under five feet tall.

Of course there are stereotypes for everyone.

LA and hizgeorgiapeach were having a sort of one-on-one debate about changing views of overweight women.

Centuries ago, a little fat was attractive. It symbolized wealth. What made that change?

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RE: Overweight bdsm women - 6/28/2006 1:15:01 PM   
Caretakr


Posts: 1221
Joined: 6/24/2006
Status: offline 		Oh, I take women under five feet tall seriously. As far as the rest,we can blame media-sex sells.

They have been pushing the barbie image since the 1930's as the ideal. It's going to take a toll-very few can meet that visualization.

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RE: Overweight bdsm women - 6/28/2006 1:22:13 PM   
QuietDom


Posts: 255
Joined: 7/10/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: litleone8620
Centuries ago, a little fat was attractive. It symbolized wealth. What made that change?


Two factors.  First, the increase in more sedentary employment.  Low-valued menial workers are now more likely to do jobs where they stand still or do non-strenuous work -- working a cash register, attaching part C to Widget A on an assembly line, mopping floors and so forth -- than physically demanding jobs that would make them lean and muscular.  So fatness no longer correlates to being in a more esteemed social position.  Just the opposite, really -- wealthier people can afford to maintain a gym membership, maybe hire a personal trainer, or take a month off to go mountain-climbing in Nepal, while the poor need to stay at that assembly line to keep the bills paid.

Secondly, it was once true that wealthier, higher-status people could afford to eat more luxurious, fattier food, and in larger quantities, thus again equating weight with success.  In modern Western society, everyone but the truly desperate can afford enough to eat.  The poor, however, will be eating cheaper food, and cheap food is now fattier than the more expensive stuff, rather than vice versa.  Leaner cuts, fresh fruits and vegetables, multi-grain breads -- it's all now MORE expensive than high-fat foods.

That, to my way of thinking, is the whole story in a nutshell.  Fat was in when only the rich and successful could afford to be fat.  Now, it's the rich and successful who can afford to be thin.  Human attraction is attuned to signs of success.

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RE: Overweight bdsm women - 6/28/2006 1:31:57 PM   
litleone8620


Posts: 3669
Joined: 6/12/2006
Status: offline 		While other people (plastic surgeons) are paid loads of money to make women into that barbie doll shape ideal.

Plus, i have a huge problem with how the media protrays celebrities. Heaven forbid a woman should gain a few pounds while being with child.

Is it the media's fault that teenage girls learn from a young age that thin is in, so as a result they have eating disorders?

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RE: Overweight bdsm women - 6/28/2006 1:47:24 PM   
newly42


Posts: 23
Joined: 6/26/2005
Status: offline 		yes, litleone, i agree with you.  
It is somehow Media's fault.  Portraying thin celebrities and showing them as "perfect" bodies or faces, and at the same time showing us food and more food.

Laatin tv programation incorporates a lot of advertising of food, sodas, candies, chocolates, alcoholic drinks, beer.
All our beer TV commercials show pretty bodies for enticing beer drinkers, but they don't tell them that dinking a lot of beer makes their bellies grow and grow, for example.

Ironic, isn't it?

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RE: Overweight bdsm women - 6/28/2006 1:47:28 PM   
BlkTallFullfig


Posts: 5585
Joined: 6/25/2004
Status: offline 		Would everyone have preferred all the women and men come and nod yes on the thread and leave?
Everyone expressed what they thought and felt on the matter which is perfectly kool with me and the reason I read threads...  Than anyone who disagreed that the OP was pure in his "research" motive and observation got labeled "you're defensive because you're guilty as charged." 

As societal norms on manners go, we don't discuss weight observations with random strangers for the same reason we don't discuss topics which some/most find emotionally disconcerting or in bad taste (like asking someone if she's fucking so and so's husband).  Weight is disconcerting because it has become a weapon used to cut people down with.  

It isn't a problem that people have preferences.  It is a problem when those preferences cause unnecessary hurt to others.  What do I mean by unnecessary?   You see someone's photo and find him/her hideously ugly, or short, bald, sickly slim/obese; do you simply skip the undesirable or is your kink one that requires you beat others down without their consent.   The reason I thought the OP was about airing sour grapes is again because no one complains/makes random observations about something they consider good/beautiful in my opinion.  

My theory on the weight issue is that it is a problem because so many people are miserable worrying about their weight, causing them to stay in rather than go dancing, and find chocolate cake rather than find a friend to sit and talk about the meaning of life, one's weight, and how one ought to go to the store and buy fun toys with which one could raise the heart rate/energy use.

quote:

cloudboy
If you are committed to being fit, the scale is a friend, not a foe.

>One technique to prevent regaining the lost pounds is daily weigh-ins. This idea makes sense: By seeing what the scale reads each day you have a better chance of catching small weight gains and getting back on track with diet and exercise as soon as possible. 
Your posts and advice on how you changed over time was a good one.   It is a similar one to how I stopped gaining 10 pounds/year after my doctor told me...  I stopped drinking soda in my case.

For myself personally, the scale is a source of evil and having it in my bathroom is a sure way to make me go out looking for more strawberry shortcake.     For myself, I love my body on most days because I decided it was okay to be myself/different as that was what God intended.    M

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RE: Overweight bdsm women - 6/28/2006 2:03:51 PM   
agirl


Posts: 4530
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Status: offline 		I find it very hard to see where the OP could be judged as *pure* or otherwise with such a basic question.

In the very short time that I've been reading threads on CM it  seems that there are many things that are used to *cut people down*....(apart from weight)

agirl

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RE: Overweight bdsm women - 6/28/2006 2:30:04 PM   
DelRey


Posts: 314
Joined: 12/3/2005
Status: offline 		for the whinners and people who truly think its out of their control or it's soceity's fault or the govt's fault. (its already the govt's prob)

here is a novel idea......

push the key board away
close the box of Krispy Creams
go sweat for an hour (that means elevate heart rate)



And stop whinning about whats on TV or how the Hollywood types live or how it is society's fault or some other lame dam excuse.

YOU WANT THE PERFECT PLAN ?????   Hear it is:
Step one: eat less
Step two: sweat more.   <-----------------------------------------------GUANANTEED
Repeat daily.

I have lost 22 lbs in the last 5 weeks and won't stop until I have my waist back. about 35-45 to go. NO WHINNING, ITS MY FAULT..... L=A=Z=I=N=E=S=S    PLAIN AND SIMPLE

< Message edited by DelRey -- 6/28/2006 2:33:05 PM >

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RE: Overweight bdsm women - 6/28/2006 2:46:23 PM   
hizgeorgiapeach


Posts: 1672
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quote:

ORIGINAL: QuietDom

quote:

ORIGINAL: litleone8620
Centuries ago, a little fat was attractive. It symbolized wealth. What made that change?


That, to my way of thinking, is the whole story in a nutshell.  Fat was in when only the rich and successful could afford to be fat.  Now, it's the rich and successful who can afford to be thin.  Human attraction is attuned to signs of success.


And he gets it in ONE!
 
And the answer to "Why is human attraction attuned to signs of sucess?"  Because it's a genetic imperative which has been passed down since Cromagnon.  While our views on what constitutes "sucess" may change over time - the genetic imperative remains to find a "mate" that we view subconsicously as a specimen that it would be beneficial to utilize in the continuation of the species.
 
In Cromagnon, it was a male's ability as a hunter which dictated that he was a good choice.  Speed, endurance, keen eyesight, and strength of arm combined to give various males the advantage when stalking prey, killing it, and bringing it back to the cave.  That ability to consistantly provide, and the various traits that gave an advantage, became of paramount importance to a female - his offspring would likely be hardier and her genes would be continued.  Extra padding to survive famine or scarcity of game, and provide nourishment for potential young even when ready food sources weren't always available, was considered a prime asset in a female - she and her offspring would be more likely to survive the conditions, and therefore she was a better choice for a male to ensure HIS genes continued.
 
To a large degree, this type of situation pertained until the industrial revolution in one variation or another.  Fewer members of the population are working in the fields to feed themselves and the rest of the population, ratio wise.  More automation becomes less and less physical activity necessary to accomplish a task - and yet thinking doesn't really Change all that much.  It is still the MOST sedentary jobs that are seen as prestigious, outside of the professional athletes/entertainers.  (Bankers, Lawyers, Politicians, Computer Geeks of various levels - all of whom sit behind a desk for the vast majority of the time, completely sedentary.)
 
The emphasis on what Types of Leisure activities should/are/can be persued HAS changed.  When most of us worked outside, rarely having time to simply sit and take a "breather" to read a book or listen to music, to embroider, correspond, etc... having the opportunity to do so was seen as a high point.  Now that we primarily work inside, sitting behind a desk or in a relatively unmoving position - and have plenty of time to read, can listen to the radio while we type, etc - the opportunity to get out and be overtly Active in a specifically Play mode is the high point.  Even though many of those "play" activities are what were once Survival Necessities.
 
quote:

All our beer TV commercials show pretty bodies for enticing beer drinkers, but they don't tell them that dinking a lot of beer makes their bellies grow and grow, for example.

Ironic, isn't it?

 
Not at all ironic in my opinion, newly42.  It's simple marketing stratagy, and appealing to what is most base and primal in us all - the need to breed.  That same "sex appeal" which dictated for millenia that Fat was In and Thin was a Sin vs the opposite in current society.
 
(I've also always been of the opinion that advertising of any sort falls under the "Caveat Emptor" rule.  IE : Buyer Beware. )

< Message edited by hizgeorgiapeach -- 6/28/2006 2:48:48 PM >

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RE: Overweight bdsm women - 6/28/2006 6:00:09 PM   
Invictus754


Posts: 521
Joined: 12/16/2005
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quote:

Well Invictus I see you describe yourself as a "a handsome, educated dominant male" - you missed a comma out but it would be infantile of me to pick up on a slight grammatical error :) - so why did you feel the need to comment on my error when the site is littered with mistakes which really do not bother anyone

Essentially your post contains insulting conjecture on your behalf about what you think I may be like based on little information - well done :) 

The Moderator told me that I flamed you last time, and to play nice from now on.  I truly did not intend to flame you - but your question, although thinly veiled as "legitimate", was mean spirited and hateful.  Let me remind you what you wrote:
quote:

ORIGINAL: sixstrokes  Why does bdsm appear to attract far more than its' fair share of overweight women?

If you were actually curious about the apparent disparity, you would have phrased your question without the "more than the fair share" phrase - this implies that the overweight women are less than  other women.  It is like asking the question "Did you stop beating your wife?" at a party. Neither a yes nor a no can be a good answer, but you can shrug your shoulders and say, "I didn't say anything wrong! I just asked a question!"  You intended to be hurtful with your post. Without flaming you, I do hope you get what you deserve (see my previous post).
 
As to your reference of my missing comma:
First - "I missed a comma out"?  I won't even comment on that. 
Second - my comma is a typographical error, while your apostrophe is grammatical.  Putting an apostrophe at the end of "its" shows you have no idea how an apostrophe is used for possession.  And no, I don't run through every posting and point out mistakes for fun (there is no fun in that - there are too effing many).  The education in America is not at its (notice, no apostophe) zenith, and finding people who care about how they write is almost impossible.  However, for those who intentionally hurt others, I throw your obvious mistakes in grammar into the post at no charge. 
 
Finally, to point out your intent in postings, you magnanimously pointed out you wouldn't stoop to the 'infantile' level - and then you went there.  And my insulting conjecture was not on my behalf.  Please, pull out a dictionary and find out what 'on my behalf' really means.  And yes, my conjecture was from little information - but you didn't try to dispute my points - you only tried to point out that I made a pretty good guess from very little information.  I bet I was a lot closer than you like to admit, sixstrokes.  The only way you would possibly weasel your way around this one and show that your intentions were above board would be to post your picture with a BBW sub kissing your feet.
 
Heh.  I won't hold my breath for that to happen.
 

< Message edited by Invictus754 -- 6/28/2006 6:10:07 PM >

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RE: Overweight bdsm women - 6/28/2006 6:01:01 PM   
Skier


Posts: 52
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		Remaining overweight and continuing to smoke are CHOSEN behaviors. I quit smoking forty years ago and it was pretty easy , but weight control takes more effort for me.  It requires a modicum of  self-discipline, a bit of self-denial, the rejection  of instant gratification and time spent at the gym being sweaty. Shifting standards of beauty (e.g. Reubens, etc) are  irrelevant. Smoking is the number one killer in America and obesity is number two. The research is clear and unequivocal. C'mon, folks, I'm not talking about curing cancer or competing in the Olympics. Working at being height/weight proportionate and not smoking are just  commonsensical  along with paying your bills on time and wearing a seat belt. This isn't rocket science. This stuff is SO darn obvious. Obesity is a food addiction and smoking is a nicotine addiction. If a dominant doesn't address pernicious  addictions his/her sub/slave may have, then s/he doesn't have his/her sub/slave's best interests at heart.     

(in reply to Calandra)
Profile   Post #: 380
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