RE: Evils of colonialism and 'post-colonialism'.

RE: Evils of colonialism and 'post-colonialism'. (Full Version)

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SimplyMichael -> RE: Evils of colonialism and 'post-colonialism'. (6/25/2013 12:17:28 PM)
Turns out it was well known that Afghanistan had large reserves of oil since the 1960s. Tells you a lot about our media that they keep repeatting the bullshit these are "new" finds. So, our record for invading countries with oil still hovers around around 100%. It was why we were in Vietnam too.

Phydeaux -> RE: Evils of colonialism and 'post-colonialism'. (6/25/2013 12:44:41 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael Turns out it was well known that Afghanistan had large reserves of oil since the 1960s. Tells you a lot about our media that they keep repeatting the bullshit these are "new" finds. So, our record for invading countries with oil still hovers around around 100%. It was why we were in Vietnam too. Where do you guys come up with this crap? Sure, there is oil in afghanistan. But you'd think that if oil were the reason that we'd like.. get some of it? Oil never materially figured into the afghanistan war. Nor into vietnam. Or canada (1812) for that matter. Nor the phillipines. Nor grenada. Nor panama. Nor cuba. We didn't invade iraq for oil - in fact as the department of energy website shows, http://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/pet_move_impcus_a2_nus_ep00_im0_mbbl_m.htm - we imported 13 m barrels out of somethike 489m barrels - or less than 2%. The fact is that our largest source is is the US followed thereafter by canada 90m, saudi arabia 40m, then somewhere around there come mexico venezuela, columbia, russia....

Real0ne -> RE: Evils of colonialism and 'post-colonialism'. (6/25/2013 2:07:16 PM)
Of course we didnt invade anyone for oil! Just ask the US government! They are more than happy to tell you what to believe. Hell look at all those wmd's they found! I am sure you believe that line of horseshit as well your level of foolishness insults even the most entrenched entitlementist.

Real0ne -> RE: Evils of colonialism and 'post-colonialism'. (6/25/2013 2:09:01 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael Turns out it was well known that Afghanistan had large reserves of oil since the 1960s. Tells you a lot about our media that they keep repeatting the bullshit these are "new" finds. So, our record for invading countries with oil still hovers around around 100%. It was why we were in Vietnam too. johnson had a bit to do with that as well.

Yachtie -> RE: Evils of colonialism and 'post-colonialism'. (6/25/2013 2:10:29 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Phydeaux quote: ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael Turns out it was well known that Afghanistan had large reserves of oil since the 1960s. Tells you a lot about our media that they keep repeatting the bullshit these are "new" finds. So, our record for invading countries with oil still hovers around around 100%. It was why we were in Vietnam too. Where do you guys come up with this crap? Sure, there is oil in afghanistan. But you'd think that if oil were the reason that we'd like.. get some of it? Oil never materially figured into the afghanistan war. Nor into vietnam. Or canada (1812) for that matter. Nor the phillipines. Nor grenada. Nor panama. Nor cuba. We didn't invade iraq for oil - in fact as the department of energy website shows, http://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/pet_move_impcus_a2_nus_ep00_im0_mbbl_m.htm - we imported 13 m barrels out of somethike 489m barrels - or less than 2%. The fact is that our largest source is is the US followed thereafter by canada 90m, saudi arabia 40m, then somewhere around there come mexico venezuela, columbia, russia.... Excerpt from a speech delivered in 1933, by Major General Smedley Butler, USMC. War is just a racket. A racket is best described, I believe, as something that is not what it seems to the majority of people. Only a small inside group knows what it is about. It is conducted for the benefit of the very few at the expense of the masses. I believe in adequate defense at the coastline and nothing else. If a nation comes over here to fight, then we'll fight. The trouble with America is that when the dollar only earns 6 percent over here, then it gets restless and goes overseas to get 100 percent. Then the flag follows the dollar and the soldiers follow the flag. I wouldn't go to war again as I have done to protect some lousy investment of the bankers. There are only two things we should fight for. One is the defense of our homes and the other is the Bill of Rights. War for any other reason is simply a racket. There isn't a trick in the racketeering bag that the military gang is blind to. It has its "finger men" to point out enemies, its "muscle men" to destroy enemies, its "brain men" to plan war preparations, and a "Big Boss" Super-Nationalistic-Capitalism. It may seem odd for me, a military man to adopt such a comparison. Truthfulness compels me to. I spent thirty- three years and four months in active military service as a member of this country's most agile military force, the Marine Corps. I served in all commissioned ranks from Second Lieutenant to Major-General. And during that period, I spent most of my time being a high class muscle- man for Big Business, for Wall Street and for the Bankers. In short, I was a racketeer, a gangster for capitalism. I suspected I was just part of a racket at the time. Now I am sure of it. Like all the members of the military profession, I never had a thought of my own until I left the service. My mental faculties remained in suspended animation while I obeyed the orders of higher-ups. This is typical with everyone in the military service. I helped make Mexico, especially Tampico, safe for American oil interests in 1914. I helped make Haiti and Cuba a decent place for the National City Bank boys to collect revenues in. I helped in the raping of half a dozen Central American republics for the benefits of Wall Street. The record of racketeering is long. I helped purify Nicaragua for the international banking house of Brown Brothers in 1909-1912 (where have I heard that name before?). I brought light to the Dominican Republic for American sugar interests in 1916. In China I helped to see to it that Standard Oil went its way unmolested. During those years, I had, as the boys in the back room would say, a swell racket. Looking back on it, I feel that I could have given Al Capone a few hints. The best he could do was to operate his racket in three districts. I operated on three continents.

Real0ne -> RE: Evils of colonialism and 'post-colonialism'. (6/25/2013 2:15:38 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Politesub53 quote: ORIGINAL: Real0ne quote: ORIGINAL: Rule Yes, oil in Afghanistan. I have been told by an Afghan that they have oil. the taliban rejected their running a pipeline and of course the british being the shining example of civilization called upon the indebted colonies for support to civilize afghanastan and force them to accept a civilized pipeline the same way they forced opuim usage upon the chinese. by civilized negotiations at the end of the barrel of a gun, same way taxes are enforced here in lower canada Laughable bullshit from you yet again. I wont ask for proof since you dont have any. Hillwilliams link kinda nails your lies. Only a few idots think the UK can control US foreign policy, and none of them live in the UK...... go figure who I mean. just american social security lmao lies? shame on you lucky. might want to work on those comprehension skills. see producing oil has nothing to do with and is an entirely different thing that having oil.

SimplyMichael -> RE: Evils of colonialism and 'post-colonialism'. (6/25/2013 2:24:08 PM)
There is no "us" in oil. Its about profits for standard oil...they dont have to sell it here to make vast sums of money. Frankly, I was surprised reading a few of tge things this thread inspired me to search for. I.just started by googling russian oil discovery afghanistan. We die, they profit

Real0ne -> RE: Evils of colonialism and 'post-colonialism'. (6/25/2013 2:24:37 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Yachtie Excerpt from a speech delivered in 1933, by Major General Smedley Butler, USMC. War is just a racket. A racket is best described, I believe, as something that is not what it seems to the majority of people. Only a small inside group knows what it is about. It is conducted for the benefit of the very few at the expense of the masses. I believe in adequate defense at the coastline and nothing else. If a nation comes over here to fight, then we'll fight. The trouble with America is that when the dollar only earns 6 percent over here, then it gets restless and goes overseas to get 100 percent. Then the flag follows the dollar and the soldiers follow the flag. I wouldn't go to war again as I have done to protect some lousy investment of the bankers. There are only two things we should fight for. One is the defense of our homes and the other is the Bill of Rights. War for any other reason is simply a racket. There isn't a trick in the racketeering bag that the military gang is blind to. It has its "finger men" to point out enemies, its "muscle men" to destroy enemies, its "brain men" to plan war preparations, and a "Big Boss" Super-Nationalistic-Capitalism. It may seem odd for me, a military man to adopt such a comparison. Truthfulness compels me to. I spent thirty- three years and four months in active military service as a member of this country's most agile military force, the Marine Corps. I served in all commissioned ranks from Second Lieutenant to Major-General. And during that period, I spent most of my time being a high class muscle- man for Big Business, for Wall Street and for the Bankers. In short, I was a racketeer, a gangster for capitalism. I suspected I was just part of a racket at the time. Now I am sure of it. Like all the members of the military profession, I never had a thought of my own until I left the service. My mental faculties remained in suspended animation while I obeyed the orders of higher-ups. This is typical with everyone in the military service. I helped make Mexico, especially Tampico, safe for American oil interests in 1914. I helped make Haiti and Cuba a decent place for the National City Bank boys to collect revenues in. I helped in the raping of half a dozen Central American republics for the benefits of Wall Street. The record of racketeering is long. I helped purify Nicaragua for the international banking house of Brown Brothers in 1909-1912 (where have I heard that name before?). I brought light to the Dominican Republic for American sugar interests in 1916. In China I helped to see to it that Standard Oil went its way unmolested. During those years, I had, as the boys in the back room would say, a swell racket. Looking back on it, I feel that I could have given Al Capone a few hints. The best he could do was to operate his racket in three districts. I operated on three continents. oh yeh he is the guy that blew the whistle on the bushies when they tried to take over america in a nazi coup. everyone in power knows it, people on the other hand well.... not to fucking brite. Göring: Why, of course, the people don't want war. Why would some poor slob on a farm want to risk his life in a war when the best that he can get out of it is to come back to his farm in one piece? Naturally, the common people don't want war; neither in Russia nor in England nor in America, nor for that matter in Germany. That is understood. But, after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy or a fascist dictatorship or a Parliament or a Communist dictatorship. Gilbert: There is one difference. In a democracy, the people have some say in the matter through their elected representatives, and in the United States only Congress can declare wars. Göring: Oh, that is all well and good, but, voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same way in any country. of course staging an attack works just as well as long as someone gets really hurt.

Rule -> RE: Evils of colonialism and 'post-colonialism'. (6/25/2013 2:28:24 PM)
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SimplyMichael -> RE: Evils of colonialism and 'post-colonialism'. (6/25/2013 2:29:53 PM)
If you track Standard Oils interests, america's military or cia follows and if you can see their future interests you coul probably predict our future wars.

Real0ne -> RE: Evils of colonialism and 'post-colonialism'. (6/25/2013 2:31:23 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael There is no "us" in oil. Its about profits for standard oil...they dont have to sell it here to make vast sums of money. Frankly, I was surprised reading a few of tge things this thread inspired me to search for. I.just started by googling russian oil discovery afghanistan. We die, they profit rockyfeller morgan. they need to get the underlying contracts to get a piece of that action. anytime a country does not cooperate they send in team america to help usher in the just-us club. in the name of democracy of course! LOL

MrRodgers -> RE: Evils of colonialism and 'post-colonialism'. (6/25/2013 2:33:33 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MrBukani America was once a colony. England has had many invaders who colonized. The greeks had colonies all over the place. The persians did it and the egyptians did it. And Alexander the Great did it. So there you have it. What was the effect of colonizing besides all the bad things. You don't see any good in the long run? You see no exchange of ideas, technology and culture? What if you would find a planet with a population that has inferior technology and they would be at war with eachother constantly. Would you bring peace( by force that is)? Would you leave your enemy alone, so he can muster more manpower to kill you? Are you sure a world without intervention is better? Why do they always mention Vietnam but not Korea? Ah the horror... Just for arguments sake...Korea was a war voted on by the general assembly of the UN. Vietnam was a country with whom we had a treaty and the US a country with a president who saw the present not the future...Eisenhower. He told Kennedy to 'save' Vietnam from the communists (rubber/oil) and that it was too valuable to 'lose.' So after the French route at Dien Bien Phu, the US filled in, quickly determined to be of no real purpose so after Kennedy sends in 'advisors' then troops, the US needed a reason to actually make war so the 'Golf of Tonkin' (fake attack on the US) was created by way of lies and then the basis of a congressional resolution, whole cloth, out of thin air and presto...10 more years of war profits. In the Korean war, 3 counties fought for the north...17 for the south as the 'UN coalition.' Thus, there is a big difference between the two and our participation in the Korean war has never been as questioned as ours in Vietnam.

PeonForHer -> RE: Evils of colonialism and 'post-colonialism'. (6/25/2013 3:12:09 PM)
quote: If you track Standard Oils interests, america's military or cia follows and if you can see their future interests you coul probably predict our future wars. Maybe in the special case of Afghanistan oil is less relevant than, say, lithium, Michael. Demand is burgeoning for it, what with both nuke and cellphone battery requirements, and . . . "In June 2010, the New York Times reported that American geologists were conducting ground surveys on dry salt lakes in western Afghanistan believing that large deposits of lithium are located there. "Pentagon officials said that their initial analysis at one location in Ghazni Province showed the potential for lithium deposits as large as those of Bolivia, which now has the world's largest known lithium reserves." (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium) Well, just a thought.

MrBukani -> RE: Evils of colonialism and 'post-colonialism'. (6/25/2013 4:18:17 PM)
Good post, but in those days the threat of communism was very real. The soviets promised free elections in eastern europe wich never happened. They were factually occupied and colonized by Russia. Again we don't view that as colonizing and it's always the bad west. Communist China and Russia together was a very real threat. Look at North Korea now and see they are a real threat with wanting wmd's just like Iran. You can say rubber was the reason. Well gentlemen rubber like oil are stategic reserves for war. Our warmachine and economy of today runs on oil. So if that is in the hands of our enemies we got a problem. I do not consider Israel a colony. To me it's the first example of redividing land to it's rightfull inhabitants. Just like the kurds deserve their own land and yes the palestinians can have some too. Like Africa needs new borders and states according to tribal difference. And so on. Tibet and Taiwan should have independence and there are many more examples. I do not percieve Iraq as a colony and it is not by definition. It should be cut in half cause almost half belongs to the Kurds. The road to peace is that all people get a piece of their native land back to govern. aboriginals, indians etc. And the UN should protect the human rights. Let the people rule in democracy. Let's set a good example and clean up our democracy first. Only the people can do that by trial and demand justice. I am all for it.

Politesub53 -> RE: Evils of colonialism and 'post-colonialism'. (6/25/2013 5:07:35 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Real0ne just american social security lmao lies? shame on you lucky. might want to work on those comprehension skills. see producing oil has nothing to do with and is an entirely different thing that having oil. More rambling from you. This post doesnt make sense grammatically, let alone the content. The fact it isnt any use invading for oil, if you dont produce any, seems to much for you to grasp. If you think I am lucky, you are more deluded than I ever gave you credit for.

Phydeaux -> RE: Evils of colonialism and 'post-colonialism'. (6/25/2013 6:53:20 PM)
I didn't say we never invaded anyone for oi. I said we didn't invade afghanistan for oil. Reading comprehension, 3rd grade. Don't have any facts pound the table. I provided the link that showed we imported zero oil from afghanistan. You, to the contrary have provided zero facts. The afghan oil fields were shut down prior to american invsion, fwiw.

Real0ne -> RE: Evils of colonialism and 'post-colonialism'. (6/25/2013 7:03:43 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Phydeaux I didn't say we never invaded anyone for oi. I said we didn't invade afghanistan for oil. Reading comprehension, 3rd grade. Don't have any facts pound the table. I provided the link that showed we imported zero oil from afghanistan. You, to the contrary have provided zero facts. The afghan oil fields were shut down prior to american invsion, fwiw. I said they invaded afghanastan for the brits. Its pretty common knowledge that the taliban rejected running their pipeline through. thankfully their old pal osama came through for them. a us/brit joint venture. you have me confused with someone else. now by all means continue pounding.

Real0ne -> RE: Evils of colonialism and 'post-colonialism'. (6/25/2013 7:10:13 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Politesub53 quote: ORIGINAL: Real0ne just american social security lmao lies? shame on you lucky. might want to work on those comprehension skills. see producing oil has nothing to do with and is an entirely different thing that having oil. More rambling from you. This post doesnt make sense grammatically, let alone the content. The fact it isnt any use invading for oil, if you dont produce any, seems to much for you to grasp. If you think I am lucky, you are more deluded than I ever gave you credit for. oh so oil in the ground has no value huh? what a bunch if idjits invading for oil in the ground! lmao read my above post. thats the one above this one.

tweakabelle -> RE: Evils of colonialism and 'post-colonialism'. (6/25/2013 8:22:58 PM)
quote: As for 'moral superiority' - well, your argument is absurd on its face. No group is more 'moral' than another. [..] Muslim culture puts concerns of state under the concerns of religion (uma) and hence subrogates the rights of minorities. Subrogates the rights of women. In some places encourages suicide bombing. Muslim nations usuallly fracture along tribal lines as well. Democracies, in contrast, provide a peaceful way for the political process to occur. Are they subject to abuse. Absolutely. Are they instable - absolutely. Can they devolve into statism. Absolutely. [...] Frankly, the middle east is heading toward another conflict. Israel and the US should hope it occurs before Russia and Chinese power eclipse us further. ' You point-blank deny, and then resort to "moral superiority" to justify an argument that in the end boils down to 'Might is Right'. It's kind of fitting that the post ends with a note of excitement at the prospect of a new ME conflict, and the prospect of US and Israeli involvement, and a hope that it happens sooner rather than later. The perspective you defend has nothing to offer those of us who want peace and justice. Such notions don't operate in the violent, nasty world your post seems to celebrate. I hope all war mongers actually live in the world that you have just described. How can such thugs not deserve getting the kind of world they advocate?

MasterCaneman -> RE: Evils of colonialism and 'post-colonialism'. (6/25/2013 8:40:02 PM)
After reading all this, I hope to God they find another planet reasonably close to us that can sustain human life, because we're hellbent on killing ourselves.

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