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ORIGINAL: RacerJim

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ORIGINAL: kdsub

Believe me I am not defending this man... Or the law that enabled him. But so far I just cannot see where there is enough evidence to convict him.

If I were Martins parents and Zimmerman was quitted I would pursue him in civil court where there may be enough evidence...even though it would be little solace. And it is a shame they could not sue the State of Florida the real culprits in this tragedy.

Butch

The Martins have already won a SEVEN FIGURE (>$1M) wrongful death suit against the Retreat at Twin Lakes' Home Owner's Association. If I were the HOA and Zimmerman is acquitted, which it looks like he should be given the prosecution's total lack of evidence against him, I'd sue the Martins to recoup whatever they got under false pretenses. I'd also sue Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton, the NAACP, ABC, CBS, NBC, CNN and MSNBC for TEN FIGURES (>$1B) for creating and exacerbating the racially-charged environment which eventually caused charges to filed against Zimmerman at the behest of who knows who (IMHO Holder or Obama) 45 days after the police had determined (from evidence and witnesses) he had not committed a crime. And it is a shame he could not sue the Federal Government, specifically Holder or Obama, the real culprits in this racially driven tragedy.

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That thought would be in line with if they are on top of you backing your head on what ever surface is under you, it is your obligation to assume they won't hurt you bad until your brains fall out on the ground, then you can use deadly force.

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ORIGINAL: DomKen

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ORIGINAL: BitYakin

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ORIGINAL: farglebargle

The real beauty of this is that by charging it the way she did, and not mentioning 776, Corey sets it up so that if Zimmerman wants 776 protection, HE needs to bring it up, and then he's going to have to testify. Once he's on the stand, all the holes in his story come out. ( If you're getting your head bashed in on concrete so bad you needed to kill the kid, why is the kid's body more than a body length away from the concrete ? )

that is a kinda interesting point, and before I answer I have a couple questions of my own.

1) was tray's body found to be at an angle to the concrete or parrallel to the sidewalk
2) did the bullet that kiled him pass completly threw his body or lodge inside his body and what calliber was the bullet/gun

does anyone have this info?

reason I ask is, is it possible that they were positioned at a right angle to the sidewalk, most of thier bodies on the grass with zims head over the edge of the concrete, with tray on top zim fires upwards into trays body and the force of the shot lifts and carries him back and away a few feet?

Zimmerman's claims is after he shot him Martin remained on top of him. He claims he pushed him off and got up.

The bullet did not exit Martin's body. The weapon was 9mm short caliber pistol intended for concealed carry.

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ORIGINAL: truckinslave

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You also forget that she admitted to multiple lies and that the police interviewed her with Martins mother and his mothers lawyer present in the mothers home. That should be enough to have her testimony thrown out.

I think that's a little strong. She's a juvenile (I think), and she wanted a friendly adult present? She probably has the right to a the presence of an attorney.
Her lies, her demeanor, and the very timing of here testimony are sufficient to impeach her testimony in the mind of any reasonable jury.

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ORIGINAL: truckinslave

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That thought would be in line with if they are on top of you backing your head on what ever surface is under you, it is your obligation to assume they won't hurt you bad until your brains fall out on the ground, then you can use deadly force.

I think that perfectly describes the position of many in the lynch mob camp.

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ORIGINAL: BamaD
When handgun control writes a law depriving a person of the right to have the means to defend themselves they have rewritten a law about self defense.

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When stop attempts to let the person fight back before they are seriously injured, same thing.

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When they pass a law that gets a person arrested because the paperwork on a gun they brought into the state legally hasn't gone through that is rewriting self defense law.

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And if they manage to repeal SYG anywhere that to will be rewriting self defense law.

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The real point being that SYG does not indicate insanity anymore than your wanting to repeal it does, no matter how good it makes you feel to declare those you disagree with to be insane doesn't make it so.

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ORIGINAL: BamaD

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ORIGINAL: truckinslave

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You also forget that she admitted to multiple lies and that the police interviewed her with Martins mother and his mothers lawyer present in the mothers home. That should be enough to have her testimony thrown out.

I think that's a little strong. She's a juvenile (I think), and she wanted a friendly adult present? She probably has the right to a the presence of an attorney.
Her lies, her demeanor, and the very timing of here testimony are sufficient to impeach her testimony in the mind of any reasonable jury.

An attorney no problem a friendly adult presence no problem.
But imagine the outrage if OJ witnesses had been interviewed in the presence of the Goldmans and their lawyer. I do not object to some presence, in fact without a lawyer and a "friendly adult" present I would see all kinds of problems. But the "victims" family and their lawyer? No way.

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My contention is that carrying a gun in your waistband is a horrifically stupid idea. It is even stupider to get into a fist fight while doing so.

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ORIGINAL: DomKen

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ORIGINAL: BitYakin

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ORIGINAL: DomKen

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ORIGINAL: truckinslave

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If you and another person are struggling for the gun and either you or the other person pull the trigger without full control of it you cannot claim self defense.

If you and another person are struggling for the gun and you fire it intentionally, you can claim self-defense.
Has Z claimed the gun went off accidentally?

Nope. If you are struggling over a weapon but have enough control over it to intentionally fire it then you aren't in imminent danger of death or great bodily harm so no self defense. As a matter of fact the person you shoot has the legal claim for self defense since he was in imminent danger.

I have to dissagree with that assumption, if you are struggling over a gun and still have enough control over it to fire it intentionally and you do not fire it, then you obviously leave yourself open for the possibility in the next few seconds you may lose control of the gun completely and be shot yourself. I'd say that qualifies as being in mental state where you fear for your life...

or is it your contention that when someone grabs your gun you should just HOLD ON TIGHT and HOPE they don't get it away from you and shoot you with it?

My contention is that carrying a gun in your waistband is a horrifically stupid idea. It is even stupider to get into a fist fight while doing so.

However the fact is there is that word imminent in the law for self defense. If your opponent grabs for your gun it is likely because he that feels an imminent danger and you discharging your weapon while he is attempting to defend himself legally makes you at the very least an attempted murderer. That's a big problem with people carrying guns in public it escalates otherwise minor events into much more serious ones.

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ORIGINAL: BitYakin

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My contention is that carrying a gun in your waistband is a horrifically stupid idea. It is even stupider to get into a fist fight while doing so.

but thats not what you said, in your previous statment the struggle for the gun had already ensued, and you contended that after the stuggle ensues you are inthe wrong for firing before you lose control completely...

my contnetion was that once the struggle for a gun starts only and IDIOT wouldn't do everything in his power to have that struggle end with himself in control of the gun. and the surest way to insure that would ne to take the shot while you still have control

fact is, were I put in that situation and I had time to mull over my options I'd surely decide the better course of action is to shot the guy and take my chances in court

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ORIGINAL: RacerJim

If your opponent grabs for your gun it is just as likely, if not more likely, because they intend to kill...just like Trayvon had told his 'girlfriend' he was going to do to the "creepy ass cracker" following him just a couple minutes before Trayvon grab for Zimmerman's gun.

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ORIGINAL: DomKen

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ORIGINAL: BamaD

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ORIGINAL: truckinslave

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You also forget that she admitted to multiple lies and that the police interviewed her with Martins mother and his mothers lawyer present in the mothers home. That should be enough to have her testimony thrown out.

I think that's a little strong. She's a juvenile (I think), and she wanted a friendly adult present? She probably has the right to a the presence of an attorney.
Her lies, her demeanor, and the very timing of here testimony are sufficient to impeach her testimony in the mind of any reasonable jury.

An attorney no problem a friendly adult presence no problem.
But imagine the outrage if OJ witnesses had been interviewed in the presence of the Goldmans and their lawyer. I do not object to some presence, in fact without a lawyer and a "friendly adult" present I would see all kinds of problems. But the "victims" family and their lawyer? No way.

Juveniles are often interviewed in the presence of an adult. It is usually a parent or guardian though I imagine if she requested Martin's mother the police would go along. Anytime you are interviewed by police a lawyer is a good idea.

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ORIGINAL: truckinslave

I would argue that exactly the other way around. Requiring retreat in the face of aggression is not, I think, centuries old, nor is it effective. Witness Chicago and L.A.
Furthermore, I do not care if it is effective. It is morally repugnant to require an innocent man to retreat. Morally. Repugnant. Period. I am a free citizen, I am no one's subject (except, occasionally, Taylor St Claire's).

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ORIGINAL: truckinslave

OMG I hope not.
Trayvon circles around, assaults Zimmerman, beats, him, goes for his gun... and his civil rights were impugned?
Is this a sick country, or what?