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RE: Zimmerman Trial - LIVE - 6/28/2013 12:15:23 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
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quote:

I agree. He did step out of line when he chased him, but I don't think he really wanted to kill the kid.


I never said he wanted to kill. He wanted to hunt. He was hunting a human. He wanted the prize. In this case, the prize was looking like a hero.

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Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
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Profile   Post #: 161
RE: Zimmerman Trial - LIVE - 6/28/2013 12:19:12 AM   
Owner59


Posts: 17033
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From: Dirty Jersey
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Because.......I don`t know.......someone might get hurt?


Why was the kid yelling..."get off....get off?


It wasn`t cuz George was just talking.....


Why is it every question.....every possible scenario you zim defenders come up with, always falling toward George`s favor......?


That never happens in real life.


The boy is dead.



< Message edited by Owner59 -- 6/28/2013 12:22:23 AM >


_____________________________

"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

President Obama

(in reply to BitYakin)
Profile   Post #: 162
RE: Zimmerman Trial - LIVE - 6/28/2013 12:20:28 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:

I may be jumping to a conclusion here, but as a rule when one person speaks and the next thing you hear is a FIGHT, its usually NOT the last person who SPOKE who threw the 1st punch! possinly she heard MORE than she is telling, she has ALREADY admitted she witheld INFO, and that M made racist remarkes


I disagree. I know many who speak as they throw the first punch. 4 brothers taught me that, their friends taught me that.

quote:

beleive ANYTHING you like, but unless you've been in a similar situation, you have NO IDEA how these things happen, and when it happens it happens FAST!


Unless I have been in a similar situation?

Yet here you are assuming all sorts of stuff.. about Z.. and T.. about me. Please dont assume things about me. That gets many people in hot water. I have lived in places where gun shots being fired was a nightly occurrence.. for most of the night. I hunt, I shoot, I love my gun.

Z went hunting.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to BitYakin)
Profile   Post #: 163
RE: Zimmerman Trial - LIVE - 6/28/2013 12:20:53 AM   
MasterCaneman


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Joined: 3/21/2013
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Understandable, but why didn't they charge him right away? Was is because of "new information" or did they cave into the pressure from the media, social and otherwise? I think the answer is much bigger than Zimmerman killing Martin. I think the powers-that-be didn't want to deal with riots and looting rather than out of any sense of justice.

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(in reply to Owner59)
Profile   Post #: 164
RE: Zimmerman Trial - LIVE - 6/28/2013 12:24:26 AM   
BitYakin


Posts: 882
Joined: 10/15/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterCaneman

I agree. He did step out of line when he chased him, but I don't think he really wanted to kill the kid. Place him under 'citizen's arrest' or something to impress the cops and give himself something to crow about. I don't think he was prepared when he encountered real resistance. I won't praise or damn him for what happened next.

His greatest crime was to do this during a fairly slow news cycle, otherwise it'd have been handled locally. I don't feel like checking the stats, but I'll wager that there were many more shootings and killings in the area that won't get the attention this one does.


Good points.I share a few. Especially the ham-handed wanna-be cop shit, that got him in trouble.

But it was the local outrage and then social media outrage from NOT charging the guy after weeks,that gave this story legs.

They let him go.

That,is why I got upset and probably why so many others did too.







how bout THIS for a point, they let him go because they knew they didn't have a case against him and ONLY arrested him DUE to public outrage

so NOW we have a trial with hardly ANY credible evidence purely for the purpose of calming the public
fact is you are NEVER going to get "beyond a resonable doubt" in this case, everyone else's testimony is either scetchy or supports Z's case

(in reply to Owner59)
Profile   Post #: 165
RE: Zimmerman Trial - LIVE - 6/28/2013 12:24:31 AM   
Owner59


Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
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My understanding was the local police were going to charge George but were overruled by higher ups, who were not at that station.

_____________________________

"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

President Obama

(in reply to MasterCaneman)
Profile   Post #: 166
RE: Zimmerman Trial - LIVE - 6/28/2013 12:26:59 AM   
Owner59


Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: BitYakin


quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterCaneman

I agree. He did step out of line when he chased him, but I don't think he really wanted to kill the kid. Place him under 'citizen's arrest' or something to impress the cops and give himself something to crow about. I don't think he was prepared when he encountered real resistance. I won't praise or damn him for what happened next.

His greatest crime was to do this during a fairly slow news cycle, otherwise it'd have been handled locally. I don't feel like checking the stats, but I'll wager that there were many more shootings and killings in the area that won't get the attention this one does.


Good points.I share a few. Especially the ham-handed wanna-be cop shit, that got him in trouble.

But it was the local outrage and then social media outrage from NOT charging the guy after weeks,that gave this story legs.

They let him go.

That,is why I got upset and probably why so many others did too.







how bout THIS for a point, they let him go because they knew they didn't have a case against him and ONLY arrested him DUE to public outrage

so NOW we have a trial with hardly ANY credible evidence purely for the purpose of calming the public
fact is you are NEVER going to get "beyond a resonable doubt" in this case, everyone else's testimony is either scetchy or supports Z's case



Reasonable doubt works where there`s some doubt as to who did the killing.


We know who the killer is.


What you guys come up with is truly mind blowing........but don`t stop....

_____________________________

"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

President Obama

(in reply to BitYakin)
Profile   Post #: 167
RE: Zimmerman Trial - LIVE - 6/28/2013 12:29:49 AM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterCaneman

I agree. He did step out of line when he chased him, but I don't think he really wanted to kill the kid. Place him under 'citizen's arrest' or something to impress the cops and give himself something to crow about. I don't think he was prepared when he encountered real resistance. I won't praise or damn him for what happened next.

His greatest crime was to do this during a fairly slow news cycle, otherwise it'd have been handled locally. I don't feel like checking the stats, but I'll wager that there were many more shootings and killings in the area that won't get the attention this one does.

He followed, not chased, there is no indication that he intended to catch and capture him.

< Message edited by BamaD -- 6/28/2013 12:30:10 AM >

(in reply to MasterCaneman)
Profile   Post #: 168
RE: Zimmerman Trial - LIVE - 6/28/2013 12:31:52 AM   
Raiikun


Posts: 2650
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterCaneman

I agree. He did step out of line when he chased him, but I don't think he really wanted to kill the kid. Place him under 'citizen's arrest' or something to impress the cops and give himself something to crow about. I don't think he was prepared when he encountered real resistance. I won't praise or damn him for what happened next.


And what people don't realize, but the Defense will soon demonstrate (they have said as much in opening statement), there really is strong evidence that George had ceased following when advised to.

The fight did after all occur in near the same spot that George agreed to not follow.

And it was established in court already that George got out of the vehicle in response to being asked where Trayvon was running.

quote:


His greatest crime was to do this during a fairly slow news cycle, otherwise it'd have been handled locally. I don't feel like checking the stats, but I'll wager that there were many more shootings and killings in the area that won't get the attention this one does.


Indeed, and other cases where there was actually a chase (unlike this case), charges were dismissed by giving immunity.


< Message edited by Raiikun -- 6/28/2013 12:33:02 AM >

(in reply to MasterCaneman)
Profile   Post #: 169
RE: Zimmerman Trial - LIVE - 6/28/2013 12:34:28 AM   
Raiikun


Posts: 2650
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59


quote:

ORIGINAL: BitYakin


quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterCaneman

I agree. He did step out of line when he chased him, but I don't think he really wanted to kill the kid. Place him under 'citizen's arrest' or something to impress the cops and give himself something to crow about. I don't think he was prepared when he encountered real resistance. I won't praise or damn him for what happened next.

His greatest crime was to do this during a fairly slow news cycle, otherwise it'd have been handled locally. I don't feel like checking the stats, but I'll wager that there were many more shootings and killings in the area that won't get the attention this one does.


Good points.I share a few. Especially the ham-handed wanna-be cop shit, that got him in trouble.

But it was the local outrage and then social media outrage from NOT charging the guy after weeks,that gave this story legs.

They let him go.

That,is why I got upset and probably why so many others did too.







how bout THIS for a point, they let him go because they knew they didn't have a case against him and ONLY arrested him DUE to public outrage

so NOW we have a trial with hardly ANY credible evidence purely for the purpose of calming the public
fact is you are NEVER going to get "beyond a resonable doubt" in this case, everyone else's testimony is either scetchy or supports Z's case



Reasonable doubt works where there`s some doubt as to who did the killing.


We know who the killer is.


What you guys come up with is truly mind blowing........but don`t stop....


The prosecution is also required to disprove self defense beyond a reasonable doubt. It is in the jury instructions.

(in reply to Owner59)
Profile   Post #: 170
RE: Zimmerman Trial - LIVE - 6/28/2013 12:35:55 AM   
Owner59


Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline
Bullshit.......there`s plenty.


There`s also logic and common sense too, which we are a little to often being asked to suspend.


Eventually, though Georges defenders seemingly sincere, most folks don`t fool themselves or like being asked to fool themselves.


I don`t think those moms are going to often enough to save George.

_____________________________

"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

President Obama

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 171
RE: Zimmerman Trial - LIVE - 6/28/2013 12:37:38 AM   
BitYakin


Posts: 882
Joined: 10/15/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

Because.......I don`t know.......someone might get hurt?


Why was the kid yelling..."get off....get off?


It wasn`t cuz George was just talking.....


Why is it every question.....every possible scenario you zim defenders come up with, always falling toward George`s favor......?


That never happens in real life.


The boy is dead.



1st of all you don't KNOW it was the KID yelling get off get off, "experts" seem to be split on WHO was yelling...

as for why do the defneders of ZIM always fall towards Zim's favor the SAME reason everything you say falls away from his favor

DUHHHHHH

how bout MAYBE because some of use truely BELEIVE in innocent until PROVEN guilty, instead of just DECLARING him guilty with just bits and peices of exidence they read in the news!

the SIMPLE facts are these
1) there ha dbeen burglerues in the area recently,
2) zim had been charged with WATCHING this area, just MAYBE he took that to mean he should WATCH THIS GUY
3) tray INITIATED contact
4) zim reponded to that contact verbally

beyond that EVERYTHING is just speculation!

(in reply to Owner59)
Profile   Post #: 172
RE: Zimmerman Trial - LIVE - 6/28/2013 12:39:17 AM   
Owner59


Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Raiikun


quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59


quote:

ORIGINAL: BitYakin


quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterCaneman

I agree. He did step out of line when he chased him, but I don't think he really wanted to kill the kid. Place him under 'citizen's arrest' or something to impress the cops and give himself something to crow about. I don't think he was prepared when he encountered real resistance. I won't praise or damn him for what happened next.

His greatest crime was to do this during a fairly slow news cycle, otherwise it'd have been handled locally. I don't feel like checking the stats, but I'll wager that there were many more shootings and killings in the area that won't get the attention this one does.


Good points.I share a few. Especially the ham-handed wanna-be cop shit, that got him in trouble.

But it was the local outrage and then social media outrage from NOT charging the guy after weeks,that gave this story legs.

They let him go.

That,is why I got upset and probably why so many others did too.







how bout THIS for a point, they let him go because they knew they didn't have a case against him and ONLY arrested him DUE to public outrage

so NOW we have a trial with hardly ANY credible evidence purely for the purpose of calming the public
fact is you are NEVER going to get "beyond a resonable doubt" in this case, everyone else's testimony is either scetchy or supports Z's case



Reasonable doubt works where there`s some doubt as to who did the killing.


We know who the killer is.


What you guys come up with is truly mind blowing........but don`t stop....


The prosecution is also required to disprove self defense beyond a reasonable doubt. It is in the jury instructions.



It would be a suspension of logic for these moms to think someone who starts a fight, then gets to claim self defense.








_____________________________

"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

President Obama

(in reply to Raiikun)
Profile   Post #: 173
RE: Zimmerman Trial - LIVE - 6/28/2013 12:41:06 AM   
Extravagasm


Posts: 230
Joined: 9/22/2004
Status: offline
quote:

Owner59 post 160: Still, it begs the question, does the initiator/aggressor(George) get to claim victimhood after he gets his ass kicked, picking a fight with the wrong guy?

Many 'initiators', home-intruders have claimed just that, when they picked the 'wrong guy', homeowner.

_____________________________

BDSM operates on submission. Not on love, fairness, or convention.

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Yeah, fantasy is not reality. That's how it gives direction to the truly gifted.

(in reply to Owner59)
Profile   Post #: 174
RE: Zimmerman Trial - LIVE - 6/28/2013 12:41:17 AM   
BamaD


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Status: offline
We know who the killer is.

We also know there is a big difference between killer and murderer.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to Owner59)
Profile   Post #: 175
RE: Zimmerman Trial - LIVE - 6/28/2013 12:44:56 AM   
BitYakin


Posts: 882
Joined: 10/15/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

Bullshit.......there`s plenty.


There`s also logic and common sense too, which we are a little to often being asked to suspend.


Eventually, though Georges defenders seemingly sincere, most folks don`t fool themselves or like being asked to fool themselves.


I don`t think those moms are going to often enough to save George.


talk about suspending LOGIC, logic would say if zim were CHASING with the intent to capture, when he was close enough to tray for tray to ask "why are you following me?' the LOGICAL response if the intet was to CAPTURE would have been for martin to tackle him not ask his WHO are you and/or why are you here

matter of FACT logic dictates in your version of things, that the tackle should have come AS tray was speaking!

(in reply to Owner59)
Profile   Post #: 176
RE: Zimmerman Trial - LIVE - 6/28/2013 12:47:11 AM   
jlf1961


Posts: 14840
Joined: 6/10/2008
From: Somewhere Texas
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Extravagasm

quote:

jif post 127: I have one question, why couldnt zimmerman have shot and disabled martin so that he was not a threat? I mean one round through a knee cap and he would be immobilized.

Three Answers:

1) A person who would ask that, has likely not been in a physical fight for over 15 years. We truly can forget. I was in one last month when two yahoos tried to mug me. Though able to drive them out and away with my hands, I had a plenty hard time tracking their moving fists, say nothing of their moving knee caps. And all the time I couldn't be sure if a weapon would emerge.

quote:

jif post 127: I have one question, why couldnt zimmerman have shot and disabled martin so that he was not a threat? I mean one round through a knee cap and he would be immobilized.

2) Perhaps he could have. Or perhaps Zimmerman thought Zimmerman would be unconscious if Zimmerman took time for a circuitous aiming path. Let me tell you, you're not sure when the next strike will put you under. Then you're done. Something I relearned from my recent "fire drill" is that seconds are soooo fleeting. I will live forever with 10 cardinal things I want to have done differently in my fight.

quote:

jif post 127: I have one question, why couldnt zimmerman have shot and disabled martin so that he was not a threat? I mean one round through a knee cap and he would be immobilized.

3) There's incredible adrenalin pumping in the fury of a struggle, plus shouting, sweating, scraping, tearing. It's absolutely nothing like the model of a sniper that you understandably often draw from. The adrenalin changed the shape of my face for about 4 hours after, which I recorded on mirror pictures I took of myself with my phone.

There's nothing like being there.



You seem to have missed my subsequent posts.

When you read his (zimmerman's) version of the events that night, you understand he had enough time to call the police, to ask if he should follow (he was told not to by the dispatcher) and he continued to follow Martin.

In other words, he was clearly not heeding the instructions of law enforcement, and the situation was not so severe that he could make 2 calls to police one immediately before shooting the victim.

Now those facts are by his statement. This means that Martin was no threat before or during those two calls, which begs the question what made Martin go from being no threat to being a threat and needing to be executed? What was the trigger event?

So far, the "trigger" event has not come out. That little fact is what I want to know, and if zimmerman isnt talking then he is hiding something.

_____________________________

Boy, it sure would be nice if we had some grenades, don't you think?

You cannot control who comes into your life, but you can control which airlock you throw them out of.

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(in reply to Extravagasm)
Profile   Post #: 177
RE: Zimmerman Trial - LIVE - 6/28/2013 12:47:19 AM   
BitYakin


Posts: 882
Joined: 10/15/2005
Status: offline
quote:

It would be a suspension of logic for these moms to think someone who starts a fight, then gets to claim self defense.


not sure how things work where you come from but in MY WORLD, speaking to someone, and/or asking them a question is NOT starting a FIGHT

(in reply to Owner59)
Profile   Post #: 178
RE: Zimmerman Trial - LIVE - 6/28/2013 12:47:46 AM   
Owner59


Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BitYakin


quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

Because.......I don`t know.......someone might get hurt?


Why was the kid yelling..."get off....get off?


It wasn`t cuz George was just talking.....


Why is it every question.....every possible scenario you zim defenders come up with, always falling toward George`s favor......?


That never happens in real life.


The boy is dead.



1st of all you don't KNOW it was the KID yelling get off get off, "experts" seem to be split on WHO was yelling...

as for why do the defneders of ZIM always fall towards Zim's favor the SAME reason everything you say falls away from his favor

DUHHHHHH

how bout MAYBE because some of use truely BELEIVE in innocent until PROVEN guilty, instead of just DECLARING him guilty with just bits and peices of exidence they read in the news!

the SIMPLE facts are these
1) there ha dbeen burglerues in the area recently,
2) zim had been charged with WATCHING this area, just MAYBE he took that to mean he should WATCH THIS GUY
3) tray INITIATED contact
4) zim reponded to that contact verbally

beyond that EVERYTHING is just speculation!



The GF said Martin was saying those words, just before getting cut off.


Why is the prosecution NOT asking folks to suspend common sense and reality?


It`s all pretty straight forward, believable and consistent with what a amateur vigilante would do.


No hoops to jump through or make pretend to create.

< Message edited by Owner59 -- 6/28/2013 12:48:42 AM >


_____________________________

"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

President Obama

(in reply to BitYakin)
Profile   Post #: 179
RE: Zimmerman Trial - LIVE - 6/28/2013 12:54:16 AM   
Owner59


Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline
So if I ran from you at night(a complete stranger, jack the fuck`n ripper for all I know) and you caught up with me and I knocked you out or broke your arm......you`d be surprised?


Thank goodness I don`t live where you`re from........

_____________________________

"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

President Obama

(in reply to BitYakin)
Profile   Post #: 180
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