Deportation - by hospital? (Full Version)

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defiantbadgirl -> Deportation - by hospital? (6/26/2013 2:29:48 PM)

Apparently, some hospitals are joining the government in deporting immigrants.

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/sideshow/jersey-man-falls-coma-wakes-poland-144309711.html





popeye1250 -> RE: Deportation - by hospital? (6/26/2013 4:48:54 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: defiantbadgirl

Apparently, some hospitals are joining the government in deporting immigrants.

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/sideshow/jersey-man-falls-coma-wakes-poland-144309711.html





Well, if I fell into a coma in Poland I'd want to be repatriated to the U.S., wouldn't you?




Politesub53 -> RE: Deportation - by hospital? (6/26/2013 5:10:58 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

Well, if I fell into a coma in Poland I'd want to be repatriated to the U.S., wouldn't you?



Nice to see you make light of such despicable treatment pops.




kiwisub12 -> RE: Deportation - by hospital? (6/26/2013 6:16:33 PM)

OK - i'll be the devils advocate. Who pays for his care - because no-one is stepping up to the plate. The hospital is a business and can't afford to pay for the care of the man for the rest of his life.
Despicable treatment? How is it despicable? If you need care, don't you think that you should pay for it? As a nurse, a provider of care, I can't afford to provide my services for free. I have bills to pay and kids and animals to feed.
And charity is great, but there has to be a limit. Why do people think they can get something for free? How many people here can afford to work because they want to be a great humanitarian? No-one I know, and that includes doctors, nurses, and aides. We all have to make money.

I've heard of this happening to people from other countries as well, and in an ideal world, they would be able to get quality care where ever they wanted - BUT in the world I live in, it isn't going to happen.




popeye1250 -> RE: Deportation - by hospital? (6/26/2013 6:43:40 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53


quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

Well, if I fell into a coma in Poland I'd want to be repatriated to the U.S., wouldn't you?



Nice to see you make light of such despicable treatment pops.


Polite, so we can put you down as prefering to stay in (Poland) if you were in a coma?




RottenJohnny -> RE: Deportation - by hospital? (6/26/2013 8:51:51 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: kiwisub12

And charity is great, but there has to be a limit.



Amen.




tj444 -> RE: Deportation - by hospital? (6/26/2013 9:39:28 PM)

yeah, he lived in the US for 30 years, paying taxes I presume (since they dont say he was an illegal immigrant), contributing to society and all that.. why not kick out all the poor US born medical deadbeats too? just send them all to any country, since they wont pay their bills either.. shouldnt they be "deported" also?




littleclip -> RE: Deportation - by hospital? (6/27/2013 12:51:31 AM)

as a nurse i have seen this happen and it is strictly based on finacial issues. if there is any who want to help the health care industry there would be tort reform so this wont be a problem anymore




Phoenixpower -> RE: Deportation - by hospital? (6/27/2013 1:41:43 AM)

Sounds to me like an ideal advert for your insurance companies, a la "you better make sure to be insured, otherwise we might ship you back home when you are in a situation that you can't do anything against it..."




DaddySatyr -> RE: Deportation - by hospital? (6/27/2013 1:52:21 AM)

Here's what bothers me: The man has been a New Jersey resident for 30 years. He's a resident. That doesn't necessarily equate to "citizen" in all cases. So, this is a little ambiguous.

If he's "just" a resident and not a citizen, I have no problem with the policy as the article seems to point out; he's living in a shelter and has no family here but has family in Poland. Obviously, there's some question as to whether or not he consented to the repatriation but, unless I'm mistaken, the US can revoke residency at their whim. I could be wrong about that.

Until recently, I lived a five minute walk from that hospital and I have had a few occasions in the 15 years I lived in New Brunswick to use that hospital's services. Other than the over-all crap that our care system is, I haven't really had many complaints.

If this person was a citizen, I have strong objections to what happened.

I wish the article had gone into a bit more detail.



Peace and comfort,



Michael




tazzygirl -> RE: Deportation - by hospital? (6/27/2013 1:59:42 AM)

But when Wladyslaw Haniszewski fell into a coma in a hospital in New Brunswick, New Jersey, after suffering a severe stroke, he regained consciousness in the town of Boleslawiec in Poland.

The New Brunswick hospital - Robert Wood Johnson University Hospital - deported 69-year-old Haniszewski to his homeland because he had no medial insurance and was an undocumented immigrant.

Polish officials are furious as Haniszewski or any of his family had never given their consent.

"Imagine being carted around like a sack of potatoes," Polish Consul General Ewa Junczyk-Ziomecka told New York Daily News .

"Behind our backs they transported the unconscious man to Poland,' she told Polish TV network TVN.

"I cannot imagine such a situation that the decision about transporting an unconscious person could be made without agreement. Between the two institutions must be a contract, there must be documents. You cannot simply leave a patient at the door and drive away."

............

US hospitals are legally bound to provide emergency care to all, but can ship "undocumented patients" back to their homeland through a process called "medical repatriation."

In order to do so the patient must be "stabilised". In many cases, the patient has an ongoing critical illness. The hospital must also get consent either from the patient, family or a court guardian.

In Mr Haniszewski's case, first reported in the Polish-language newspaper Nowy Dziennik, consular officials say this did not happen.

"It's an incredibly disturbing case,' Lori Nessel, director of the Centre for Social Justice at Seton Hall University School of Law told New York Daily News.

"This kind of action seems clearly illegal and also not ethical, but it's hard to bring a legal action."

A spokesman for the hospital said it had followed proper procedures.

"The individual was informed regarding his discharge plan and care. As the hospital's understanding of the facts differs from the published reports, we are conducting a thorough review of the procedures and communications surrounding this gentleman's care," said the spokesman.

He said the hospital only repatriates patients if they are satisfied a health care provider in the patient's home country will provide treatment.


However....

The Boleslawiec hospital's deputy director, Nikolaj Lambrinow, said Haniszewski was not in a fit state to sign off on the transfer.

He told TVN that Robert Wood Johnson University Hospital had contacted him regarding the transfer but before he agreed Haniszewski was dumped on their doorstep.


http://www.heraldsun.com.au/travel/world/wladyslaw-haniszewski-falls-into-coma-in-us-hospital-and-wakes-in-poland/story-fni0bxo4-1226670945246

Seems there is an investigation going on as well.

According to Poland's TVN24, the Polish consulate in New York is set to investigate whether Haniszewski's deportation is consistent with U.S. law. In its statement to HuffPost, the hospital also said that it's working with the consulate to "ensure the patient’s needs continue to be met."

New Jersey Assemblyman and Deputy Speaker John S. Wisniewski (D) is also planning to inquire whether Haniszewski's legal rights were violated.

"As a country that owes much of its strength to its immigrant population, I fear this may be another in a number of recent incidents that have been fueled by a growing intolerance for immigrants among some of our fellow countrymen and denies too many U.S. residents of the basic human dignity to which we all are entitled as human beings," Wisniewski said in a released statement.


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/06/26/stroke-victim-deported-unconscious-poland-immigrant_n_3505321.html




Termyn8or -> RE: Deportation - by hospital? (6/27/2013 2:05:37 AM)

I would've been grateful for the free passage.

T^T




tazzygirl -> RE: Deportation - by hospital? (6/27/2013 2:17:01 AM)

I think the complaint is that there was no consent from the patient or agreement from the receiving facility.




DaddySatyr -> RE: Deportation - by hospital? (6/27/2013 2:18:26 AM)

Okay. I did some searching and I found a couple of sources that say that he was an illegal alien. That's a horse of another color for me.

The hospital did not refuse to treat him and since he had no insurance and no avenue to get charity care (because he's an illegal alien), they gave him enough care to be reasonably sure he wouldn't die and deported him.

I'm okay with that. What makes these illegal aliens think that they're entitled to anything? I think that's pretty backwards thinking.

I piss all over your country by entering it, illegally. I work (presumably off the books so I don't get caught being illegal ) and I don't pay taxes but then I demand that I get the same treatment as people that are in the country legally? Fuck off, criminal!

You got free healthcare (as I believe he should). You've enjoyed some of the benefits of living in this country for 30 years. Be glad your deportation didn't come at the ass end of a prison sentence.



Peace and comfort,



Michael




tazzygirl -> RE: Deportation - by hospital? (6/27/2013 2:29:24 AM)

So sad




eulero83 -> RE: Deportation - by hospital? (6/27/2013 5:25:47 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: kiwisub12

OK - i'll be the devils advocate. Who pays for his care - because no-one is stepping up to the plate. The hospital is a business and can't afford to pay for the care of the man for the rest of his life.
Despicable treatment? How is it despicable? If you need care, don't you think that you should pay for it? As a nurse, a provider of care, I can't afford to provide my services for free. I have bills to pay and kids and animals to feed.
And charity is great, but there has to be a limit. Why do people think they can get something for free? How many people here can afford to work because they want to be a great humanitarian? No-one I know, and that includes doctors, nurses, and aides. We all have to make money.

I've heard of this happening to people from other countries as well, and in an ideal world, they would be able to get quality care where ever they wanted - BUT in the world I live in, it isn't going to happen.


In most of european country the state would pay his cares, and I don't know how it works in the USA but in Italy nurses are emploees of the ospital and not self employed professional so they recieve a montly check based on hour worked and do not send a bill to the patient.




eulero83 -> RE: Deportation - by hospital? (6/27/2013 5:30:40 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250


quote:

ORIGINAL: defiantbadgirl

Apparently, some hospitals are joining the government in deporting immigrants.

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/sideshow/jersey-man-falls-coma-wakes-poland-144309711.html





Well, if I fell into a coma in Poland I'd want to be repatriated to the U.S., wouldn't you?


if you have healt insurance in the USA I suppose yes, if not I think it would be better option to stay in Poland.




Just0Us0Two -> RE: Deportation - by hospital? (6/27/2013 5:50:01 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: eulero83
In most of european country the state would pay his cares, and I don't know how it works in the USA but in Italy nurses are emploees of the ospital and not self employed professional so they recieve a montly check based on hour worked and do not send a bill to the patient.


You are correct, to a point. The nurse gets paid by the hospital. That assumes that the hospital is being paid by it's patients and making enough money to cover it's bills and thus make payroll. If the hospital doesn't get paid, they can't pay their bills, including payroll, and then people start getting laid-off.

By the way, having dealt with private medical insurance for my wife over the years. Most insurance policies charge you extra for the privileged of being transported back to the US if you should become incapacitated in another country.




tj444 -> RE: Deportation - by hospital? (6/27/2013 6:34:32 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Phoenixpower

Sounds to me like an ideal advert for your insurance companies, a la "you better make sure to be insured, otherwise we might ship you back home when you are in a situation that you can't do anything against it..."

even if the guy had his own health insurance, how would anyone know that since he was in a freakin' coma? is there some database they can access to find out if he has private insurance or not? or for anyone that is a tourist that gets hurt and in a coma, how does the hospital know that the person bought travel health insurance before travelling to the US? I dont think they can actually know with any certainty..




tj444 -> RE: Deportation - by hospital? (6/27/2013 6:54:31 AM)

really, this hospital has done what way too many US businesses do, anything legal or illegal that they can get away with.. I read about B of A bribing their employees with bonuses to lie to homeowners so they go into forclosure so the bank can make a little more profit.. where a business founder is given the boot cuz he has ethics but the board of directors are greedy pricks and want a higher salary (Men's Warehouse).. I have experiences with businesses (especially big ones) that break contracts, etc etc.. really, too many US businesses lack ethics and break the law all the time, where no one is accountable.. so what this hospital does is no surprise.. I guess thats the American way now-a-days.. [8|]




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