Death of objective truth (Full Version)

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MrRodgers -> Death of objective truth (7/3/2013 7:59:16 AM)

THE DEATH of OBJECTIVITY (expanding on the truth OP)

It's been suggested that objectivity is not a horse to bet on over the vast transom of the blogosphere. Could it be though that blogs, and the whole of cybersphere are at the cutting edge of a new model...more personalized, more interactive, more opinionated, even more communal and yes...less objective ?

Have we abandoned the conceit of objectivity ? All observations after all, are subjective. The subjective opinion is more honest and valuable isn't it...doesn't have to hide a point of view and often reveals biases.

Freed from an artificial objectivity we determine our own truth here in our corner of paradise and tell it to the whole world. We create two folds here, one is our objective truths and truths that are also an opinion. Most of the second we use perhaps too much...a quote from somebody else. Without the pretense of objectivity though, our fundamental obligation to be accurate...remains.

We are improved by opinion aren't we ? So we find objectivity in the honesty of our own minds...objectively we can't (should never) lie to ourselves. This makes honesty harder but removes practically all doubts.

Unless of course being subjective...I am completely wrong. Now back to your normal sex and kink respite.



Rule -> RE: Death of objective truth (7/3/2013 8:46:45 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers
objectively we can't (should never) lie to ourselves

On the contrary: there are psychologies that require that the afflicted person lies to himself.



MrRodgers -> RE: Death of objective truth (7/3/2013 8:57:22 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Rule

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers
objectively we can't (should never) lie to ourselves

On the contrary: there are psychologies that require that the afflicted person lies to himself.

But those are of the mentally challenged or disturbed. Hence the 'affliction.'



Rule -> RE: Death of objective truth (7/3/2013 9:04:06 AM)

Lots of people on these forums are mentally challenged in one way or another, including myself.



joether -> RE: Death of objective truth (7/3/2013 9:04:37 AM)

Well, there is a percentage of the population that throws science in general out. Not to mention those against the ideas behind the Theories of Evolution and Climate Change. An there are those that feel life can not exist on other planets because they can only exist here. There are groups that feel that if one news media is lying and deceitful, all others must be as well. Still here, there are those that ignore what their own elected officials do or do not, while slamming the opposing party's people over the most petty or irrelevant stuff; and thus, turn a blind eye when their elected people do much, much, worst. Most of these people despise the idea of learning critical thinking skills as it would mean admitting their philosophies are deeply flawed and out of day.

Yes, conservatives in our country are generally not objective individuals. Blame the Democrats for the high debt, while ignoring it was their own elected officials that piled on the debt just a few years ago. Did what they could to remove regulations across the board, not knowing why they were put in place to begin with, and then stunned or shocked when businesses because abusive or unrelenting. They hate Hillary Clinton because she has done a lot for this country, but think Sarah Palin is amazing for falling to hold a real job for two years and then scamming her followers.

The worst is the media, whom have been allowed to get away from objective journalism in favor of sensational news and highly opinionated editorials. In fact its so bad, that one such company, FOX News, places the highly opinionated views within the sensational news to the point no one is really sure which is which. When we as Americans allow others to walk all over journalists, what ever freedoms we believe we had are simply lost. Granted not lost officially, but simply lost under the wave of 'don't care' and 'don't know better'.




Dyfrynt -> RE: Death of objective truth (7/3/2013 9:29:05 AM)

Are we improved by opinion? Really depends on what the opinion is based on. An opinion based on a thisiswhatIchoosetobelieve attitude is essentially worthless.

Joether has put together an excellent argument of the dangers of opinion based on choice rather than on objective information. And our society suffers the consequences of these failings.



Kirata -> RE: Death of objective truth (7/3/2013 9:44:24 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Dyfrynt

Joether has put together an excellent argument of the dangers of opinion based on choice rather than on objective information. And our society suffers the consequences of these failings.

I'd say his post is a stark example of exactly what he's condemning.

K.



MrBukani -> RE: Death of objective truth (7/3/2013 9:48:44 AM)

I am already glad a small majority voted for the truth to be absolute.
Language is a bitch being fucked by rapists.
For example if I use the word discrimination, people primarly think of racism. While this is not it's definition in origin.
It's discerning a difference between objects or subjects.
Truth stems from true wich is the opposite of false.
Like fact is the opposite from fiction.
Therefor I claim that a fact is the ultimate and absolute, objective truth.
We can dive in all complicated matters of subjective perception, but we need an open mind to remain objective and honest to ourselves and others.
I think people are just afraid to loose the magic of the unexplained.
While magic to me is the explanation of complicated subjects.



otrok -> RE: Death of objective truth (7/3/2013 9:52:02 AM)

These are my sentimenets too,



popeye1250 -> RE: Death of objective truth (7/3/2013 10:03:52 AM)

And that's one of the reasons why I try to avoid warmers, birthers, truthers, and the ufo people.
There always seems to be some kind of conspiracy with those people.
Oh they believe in "the truth" alright, as long as it's "their truth.
You know who sees UFO's?
People who *believe* in UFO's.



Kirata -> RE: Death of objective truth (7/3/2013 10:39:55 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

You know who sees UFO's?
People who *believe* in UFO's.

I was not aware that air-traffic radars had become people. Thanks for the update. Wow, who'd have guessed?

K.



mnottertail -> RE: Death of objective truth (7/3/2013 10:43:02 AM)

Hey!!!!! Corporations are people too!!!!



vincentML -> RE: Death of objective truth (7/3/2013 12:05:01 PM)

quote:

I think people are just afraid to loose the magic of the unexplained.
While magic to me is the explanation of complicated subjects.

Science is the romance of the unexplained.



vincentML -> RE: Death of objective truth (7/3/2013 12:07:28 PM)

quote:

We are improved by opinion aren't we ? So we find objectivity in the honesty of our own minds...objectively we can't (should never) lie to ourselves. This makes honesty harder but removes practically all doubts.

No, this way lies isolation and parochialism. It is the essence of tribal thinking.



MrBukani -> RE: Death of objective truth (7/3/2013 1:11:18 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

quote:

I think people are just afraid to loose the magic of the unexplained.
While magic to me is the explanation of complicated subjects.

Science is the romance of the unexplained.

Magic like the word machine stem from the same root wich is magh, wich means to be able, to have power.
I understand the magic of machines. Just like I understand the moon and how it controles the tides. People can actually feel the moon's magnetic power because the body contains mostly water.
To understand this makes the moon even more beautifull.
The truth of that is objective because we are all subject to it.
We have made up many new words to explain ourselves better.
But we tend to forget how words were created in correlation.
I think that's important if we want to return to the object of truth, god, peace and nature.




jlf1961 -> RE: Death of objective truth (7/3/2013 1:15:21 PM)

The "objective truth" is anything mundane to outrageously insane that can be posted on the internet as truth, that people can make money off of.



OrionTheWolf -> RE: Death of objective truth (7/3/2013 1:35:48 PM)

Then execute the fuckers when they cause a death ;)

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

Hey!!!!! Corporations are people too!!!!




PeonForHer -> RE: Death of objective truth (7/3/2013 4:15:10 PM)

quote:

All observations after all, are subjective.


Are you stating this as an objective fact? ;-)

It's more than just a joke. People are pretty damned wedded to a belief in the possibility of objective truth. Even in the most post- of post-modern tracts - like that of Derrida, for instance, the ghost of the belief is still there. If you're still fighting it, you're not moving on past it, as they say.

In a lot of day-to-day situations - perhaps most - this belief in objective truth passes the pragmatic epistemological test, for one thing. I say, for instance, 'I'm looking at my monitor as I type. I'm not looking at a goose, an Alpine scene or the Outer Hebrides. I know, as an objective fact, that I'm looking at my monitor'. I treat it like a monitor, and it reacts in the way I'd expect a monitor to react. I end up being comfortable that it is, in fact, a monitor.

But the tendency is to generalise from such simple things to, say, matters of politics, world affairs, and so forth - quite often in the belief that such matters are, in essence, just as simple to see and to know.




vincentML -> RE: Death of objective truth (7/3/2013 4:23:57 PM)

quote:

I understand the magic of machines. Just like I understand the moon and how it controles the tides. People can actually feel the moon's magnetic power because the body contains mostly water.
To understand this makes the moon even more beautifull.

That is rank nonsense. The tides are controlled by the combined forces of the sun, moon, and the rotation of the earth.

Furthermore, water in the human body does not slosh around like water in a tub. The notion that people can feel the moon's magnetic power is laughable voodoo.



PeonForHer -> RE: Death of objective truth (7/3/2013 4:25:17 PM)

. . . Besides, the moon isn't beautiful, it's a wanker.



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