RE: What is going on in Michigan?

RE: What is going on in Michigan? (Full Version)

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SadistDave -> RE: What is going on in Michigan? (7/6/2013 12:39:26 AM)
The Silverdome is in Pontiac... which is essentially Detroit. Let's be honest. Detroit was a cesspool and the local government has been a complete failure for decades. Which is why it had Emergency Management. The only other alternative to Emergency Management was to raze the entire city and start over again from scratch, but the gang members who actually control the city are mostly minorities and that would upset liberal sensibilities too much. So, the Silverdome went up for sale. Why? Well, most likely because stadiums tend to suck up revenue, and in a city like Detroit, which has cut back on education, LEO, public services, public works, and the normal things that you expect in an American city needs... well, they need every available dollar. I don't know about the particulars of Silverdome, but to put this in perspective a bit... Kansas City has several arenas. Our most recent is the Sprint Center. Now, if you read the Wiki you will learn a few uninteresting facts about the place as well as the fact that it opened on time and on budget. What you won't find in the Wiki (and something you wouldn't know unless you happened to be interested in Kansas City politics) is that Kansas City tax payers will be spending around 22 million of dollars a year for the next 20 years to keep the place open. Unlike Pontiac/Detroit Michigan though, Kansas City has not been criminally mismanaged by idiots for the last 50 years. If the Silverdome has been costing Detroit taxpayers a single dime to keep open, then it was absolutely the right decision to sell it and use the revenue from the sale for necessary services. If Kansas City ever reaches the point that we cannot afford the LUXURY of owning The Sprint Center, then I will be absolutely 100% behind selling it off as well. I'm curious about one aspect of the Silverdome sale though. Is there some sort of deal included in that price? It would seem a little odd to pass up an 18 million dollar sale in favor of 550K, but does the sale include a guarantee to sell back to the city when the city can afford it, a percentage of the gate, or some other caveat that would make such a low price more desirable in the long term than the higher cash price? -SD-

tazzygirl -> RE: What is going on in Michigan? (7/6/2013 12:56:39 AM)
Here is what I found so far about the sale details. http://www.fieldofschemes.com/category/nfl/pontiac-silverdome/

SadistDave -> RE: What is going on in Michigan? (7/6/2013 1:44:49 AM)
Okay, that's a bit fucked up. There doesn't seem to be anything in the sale of benefit to the city other than decreasing their cost on the upkeep of the stadium according to what you have there. It seems to make no sense, judging from those little bits of information, to pass up the larger cash sales for this nitwit to buy it. Thanks for the information. -SD-

thishereboi -> RE: What is going on in Michigan? (7/6/2013 4:18:04 AM)
No Pontiac is not Detroit. Two totally separate cities. I also doubt that the silverdome had much effect on Detroit's revenue since as I just pointed out, it isn't in Detroit. But I agree that the city has had problems since I was a child. Hopefully this new guy will help things out, but I have my doubts.

DesideriScuri -> RE: What is going on in Michigan? (7/6/2013 6:12:48 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SadistDave Okay, that's a bit fucked up. There doesn't seem to be anything in the sale of benefit to the city other than decreasing their cost on the upkeep of the stadium according to what you have there. It seems to make no sense, judging from those little bits of information, to pass up the larger cash sales for this nitwit to buy it. Thanks for the information. -SD- Not only does it reduce the cost of upkeep and maintenance to Pontiac, it also will bring in property tax revenues (after the 5 year moratorium). That can be a huge swing, depending the property tax rates and the cost of upkeep. quote: In a somewhat surprising development, the Toronto-based company that purchased the Silverdome has followed through on early promises and actually hosted several high-profile events. Taxpayers are no longer paying $1.5 million a year in annual upkeep for an empty stadium. Instead, they're forced to put up with billboards for the Big 'N Rich concert. That article is almost 2 years old, so, assuming the cost of upkeep wasn't taken from the hands of the taxpayers until it was complete, they have saved almost $3M. Through the 5 year property tax moratorium, they'll have saved $7.5M (assuming costs wouldn't have gone up). Sure, it would have been nice to have gotten $20M, but it's sold and the taxpayer's burden has been reduced. Has anyone noted that the OP was about the current crop of MI elected's (especially mentioning the Tea Party in the article quote) ignoring the "will of the people," yet, the big example that is being used came under Jennifer Granholm's tenure?

tazzygirl -> RE: What is going on in Michigan? (7/6/2013 9:02:05 AM)
quote: That article is almost 2 years old, Then, by all means, find something newer. Last look the stadium is still unusable. The soccer team expansion seems a long way off. Schimmel has said the city currently gets $95,000 a year in taxes for the property. The Silverdome was home of the Lions until 2002. Detroiters can’t expect an MLS expansion club any time soon, but the addition of more clubs in unreached markets will only help the growth of the league. http://topics.mlive.com/tag/Pontiac%20Silverdome/index.html Even at a price tag of 17 million, the city lost huge. If Pontiac schools can’t get a loan and a proposed lawsuit doesn’t halt a court-ordered tax levy of 3 mills, property owners in the City of Pontiac will pay $2.3 million of $7.8 million in unpaid teacher health insurance payments. http://www.theoaklandpress.com/articles/2013/05/24/news/local_news/doc519f094bad8b9593202949.txt quote: Has anyone noted that the OP was about the current crop of MI elected's (especially mentioning the Tea Party in the article quote) ignoring the "will of the people," yet, the big example that is being used came under Jennifer Granholm's tenure? No, I dont think anyone has missed that. I do think you missed it being said that the article is heavily biased and that no one but you is even referencing the article at this point. The OP is about what is happening in Michigan without the bias spin of the OP. I thought we had more posters from that area, I guess I was wrong. If you have something about that area to contribute that would give me a clearer understanding, instead of assuming I, or someone else here, has an agenda, do bring that information up. Pst... in other words.. I asked what was going on, I never made a claim about what was happening. Its called.. information... not partisan fingerpointing.

DomKen -> RE: What is going on in Michigan? (7/6/2013 10:23:00 AM)
Ok, if the silveerdome fiasco isn't bad enough for you folks. How about closing a nationally known successful high school for teen mothers? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catherine_Ferguson_Academy#Closing_controversy_and_conversion Notice that plan, class size is increasing to 60 students per class. Now the school is being run by guys who run schools in jails. [sarcasm]I'm sure it will remain the model for the nation in keeping teen mothers in school and graduating[/sarcasm]

tj444 -> RE: What is going on in Michigan? (7/6/2013 12:55:39 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl quote: What did you think when the majority of US Citizens were opposed to the ACA while Congress was passing it? WASHINGTON — More Americans now favor than oppose the health care overhaul that President Obama signed into law Tuesday, a USA TODAY/Gallup Poll finds — a notable turnaround from surveys before the vote that showed a plurality against the legislation. By 49%-40%, those polled say it was "a good thing" rather than a bad one that Congress passed the bill. Half describe their reaction in positive terms — as "enthusiastic" or "pleased" — while about four in 10 describe it in negative ways, as "disappointed" or "angry." http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/washington/2010-03-23-health-poll-favorable_N.htm?csp=hf This isnt about national or health care. I would actually like to pertain this to Michigan and what is happening there. that poll was from 2010.. this one is from 2013 (now that people have a better idea of what is in it).. "An NBC News/Wall Street Journal survey says 49% of Americans say the health care plan is a bad idea — the highest number on that question since the poll began asking it in 2009." http://www.usatoday.com/story/theoval/2013/06/06/obama-health-care-nbc-news-wall-street-journal-poll/2395541/ JMO but what is happening there in Michigan and the rest of the US is that your political system is majorly screwed up.. just sayin'..

dcnovice -> RE: What is going on in Michigan? (7/6/2013 1:03:26 PM)
quote: your political system is majorly screwed up True. But then, whose isn't?

tj444 -> RE: What is going on in Michigan? (7/6/2013 1:08:43 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl Would you, as a "people", agree that selling off property, as exampled by the SilverDome, be in the best interests of the "people"? My understanding is that they are now turning their eyes to the art work. Frankly, I have no problem with that. Nor do I have a problem with the city selling off the SilverDome. I do have a problem when something seems to "wrong" as to sell off a piece of property for pennies on the thousands. I would question this on any level, not just city. If it was open to everyone and they got no other bids or accepted the highest one, and there was no back room deal, then its fair.. there are lots of residential properties in cities (like Detroit) where the govt is giving them away or very cheaply just to get the buildings renovated or dozed and rebuilt.. its the same with other cities, there are thousands of properties owned by the county, isds here where i am, the majority are vacant lots and some of them are offered to builders for a reasonable cost to build modest homes for lower income new owners.. it is better for the county & city to have that tax revenue coming in than them owning unproductive properties.. and it provides some low cost housing for people that want to own when most properties are outside their price range..

tazzygirl -> RE: What is going on in Michigan? (7/6/2013 1:11:22 PM)
quote: that poll was from 2010.. this one is from 2013 (now that people have a better idea of what is in it).. Allow me to point something out to you. From the post I was quoting.... What did you think when the majority of US Citizens were opposed to the ACA while Congress was passing it? You once again seem to be under the mistaken belief that I agree with everything the Democratic party does/says/supports. No where in this thread have I pointed fingers at any party. I did supply the artcile in the OP as a basis for the discussion ... with the addition of the following.... I was sent this, and the bias is unmistakable. But I really would like to hear other's thoughts on what is happening there. Is it truly as bad as this or is this writer simply grinding an ax here. I know we have some posters who live there. Or did you simply stop reading at the link and assume you knew what was being discussed here?

tazzygirl -> RE: What is going on in Michigan? (7/6/2013 1:13:21 PM)
quote: If it was open to everyone and they got no other bids or accepted the highest one, and there was no back room deal, then its fair.. Good. We have you down to agreeing that 580K was better than the 17 million dollar deal the day before the auction was opened. Gotcha

tj444 -> RE: What is going on in Michigan? (7/6/2013 1:18:22 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: dcnovice quote: your political system is majorly screwed up True. But then, whose isn't? I guess its a matter of degree and what someone considers acceptable.. I think Canada's political system is better than the US but I still dont find it acceptable to me.. which is why I am looking to the Bahamas, Caymans, Turks & Caicos or maybe Costa Rica.. I think I would find their system acceptable (to me)...

vincentML -> RE: What is going on in Michigan? (7/6/2013 1:21:26 PM)
quote: "An NBC News/Wall Street Journal survey says 49% of Americans say the health care plan is a bad idea — the highest number on that question since the poll began asking it in 2009." Thirty-eight percent of respondents say their families will be worse off because of ACA. I wonder how they know that. Oh, just an opinion poll.[8\|] But it gives posters another lame opportunity to slam America even tho they live here and enjoy the fruits of the land, eh! Thirty-nine percent say the law won't make much difference. So, lessee, 38 + 39 and 19% say they will be better off. That's 96%. Where does the headline 49% number come from? Lies and damn lies.

tj444 -> RE: What is going on in Michigan? (7/6/2013 1:23:33 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl quote: that poll was from 2010.. this one is from 2013 (now that people have a better idea of what is in it).. Allow me to point something out to you. From the post I was quoting.... What did you think when the majority of US Citizens were opposed to the ACA while Congress was passing it? You once again seem to be under the mistaken belief that I agree with everything the Democratic party does/says/supports. No where in this thread have I pointed fingers at any party. I did supply the artcile in the OP as a basis for the discussion ... with the addition of the following.... I was sent this, and the bias is unmistakable. But I really would like to hear other's thoughts on what is happening there. Is it truly as bad as this or is this writer simply grinding an ax here. I know we have some posters who live there. Or did you simply stop reading at the link and assume you knew what was being discussed here? yes, I know that.. but that was signed before anyone had any idea how ACA was actually gonna work (or not).. I agree in principle that a national health care system is a good idea, but as they say the devil is in the details.. and people are just finding out the details now.. if they had known what they know now, would they have even voted for Obama in the first place? he might not even be president if people had known the details before he was elected..

tazzygirl -> RE: What is going on in Michigan? (7/6/2013 1:42:16 PM)
7% thought it was struck down by the SC, 12% thought Congress Repealed it... http://thehill.com/blogs/healthwatch/politics-elections/296907-poll-40-dont-know-obamacare-is-still-law To assume that people are actually learning whats in it.... only those who want to know are finding out. The rest have their heads buried in the sand not giving a damn because they believe its gone.

tj444 -> RE: What is going on in Michigan? (7/6/2013 1:42:37 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: vincentML quote: "An NBC News/Wall Street Journal survey says 49% of Americans say the health care plan is a bad idea — the highest number on that question since the poll began asking it in 2009." Thirty-eight percent of respondents say their families will be worse off because of ACA. I wonder how they know that. Oh, just an opinion poll.[8\|] But it gives posters another lame opportunity to slam America even tho they live here and enjoy the fruits of the land, eh! Thirty-nine percent say the law won't make much difference. So, lessee, 38 + 39 and 19% say they will be better off. That's 96%. Where does the headline 49% number come from? Lies and damn lies. they could know that cuz their hours have been cut cuz of Obamacare or that they are having a harder time finding a job or as some are finding out now, that their health care plan premiums are being doubled or tripled.. that could be why they have that "opinion".. I dont have a bone in this fight, btw, I wont be here and I take care of my own health care costs anyway.. For your answer of 49%, they asked a couple of questions re:ACA.. they are quoting numbers from both questions.. the 49% comes from page 25 of the actual word doc survey - "And, turning to the issue of health care... Q28: From what you have heard about Barack Obama's health care plan that was passed by Congress and signed into law by the President in 2010, do you think his plan is a good idea or a bad idea? If you do not have an opinion either way, please just say so. (If Good idea/Bad idea, ask:) And, do you feel that way strongly, or not so strongly?" http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/i/MSNBC/Sections/A_Politics/_Today_Stories_Teases/May-June-NBC-WSJ-Filled-in.doc

tj444 -> RE: What is going on in Michigan? (7/6/2013 1:54:47 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl 7% thought it was struck down by the SC, 12% thought Congress Repealed it... http://thehill.com/blogs/healthwatch/politics-elections/296907-poll-40-dont-know-obamacare-is-still-law To assume that people are actually learning whats in it.... only those who want to know are finding out. The rest have their heads buried in the sand not giving a damn because they believe its gone. that is strange.. I guess some people are in for a big surprise.. [:D]

tj444 -> RE: What is going on in Michigan? (7/6/2013 2:16:38 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl quote: If it was open to everyone and they got no other bids or accepted the highest one, and there was no back room deal, then its fair.. Good. We have you down to agreeing that 580K was better than the 17 million dollar deal the day before the auction was opened. Gotcha no of course it wasnt better for the city.. but like I said, yer political system is screwed up.. for whatever reason the dudes in charge were incompetent and yes, if they had any brains they would have sold it 2 years earlier for 18 million.. if there was a better deal the day before, then sure, the auction should have been cancelled.. but again, goes to incompetence... the auction went ahead and whoever made the $17 million offer could have bid during the auction also, sorta strange that they didnt.. but since they didnt, I guess this guy got it for $550k.. There is a lot of incompetence in govt, it seems,.. just reading today about the (newest) head dude at the Harris County Housing Authority having to clean up his predecessors mess (& predecessor was also being investigated by the FBI).. apparently there were unpaid bills all over the office when he took over.. [&o]

dcnovice -> RE: What is going on in Michigan? (7/6/2013 2:18:07 PM)
FR I'm not quite sure how this became an Obamacare thread. But since it has, I thought it might be illuminating to see how folks in Massachusetts view their system, which served as a model for the ACA. After all, Bay Staters are actually living with what others can only make predictions about. WBUR Poll: Most Mass. Residents Support State Health Care Law Massachusetts Health Care Plan Gets High Marks: Poll Massachusetts' health care plan: 6 years later "Today, 90 percent of Massachusetts doctors believe quality of care has improved since the reform, which two-thirds of state residents say they support."

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