Do Liberal Christians Hate The Bible? (Full Version)

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Fightdirecto -> Do Liberal Christians Hate The Bible? (7/7/2013 4:24:22 PM)

Derek Penwell

quote:

I’d had a long day talking to young ministers and seminarians. So, when I lowered myself into the jacuzzi at the hotel, I wasn’t looking for conversation. I just wanted to let the heat work its magic.

Apparently, though, the gray haired man in an over-sized NASCAR t-shirt misread my closed eyes and generally round-shouldered posture as a signal that I was in the market for a little friendly fellow traveler chinwag.

“Where you from?” he asked.

“Louisville.”

“I love how you people from Looey-ville say it. Say it again.”

“Looh-a-vul,” I said, playing along.

“That’s it! I love that! What brings you out to California?”

“I was giving a talk to some young ministers and seminarians at Claremont.”

He gave me a knowing look. “If you’re a church guy, you don’t want to spend any more time in California than you have to. It’s Obama country out here, full of liberals. And I’ve got a pretty good idea about your politics, being a church guy and all. I suspect your political leanings are pretty much like mine: starts with an ‘R’ and not a ‘D.’

Apparently finding a response from me unnecessary, he plowed on. “Yeah, this state is a Mecca (sly wink) for lefties. You probably heard we got gay marriage here again (exaggerated eye-roll). And I know how you feel about that. Am I right?”

This time I didn’t wait for him not to wait for me: “Actually, I’m proud to be in California on this historic day when marriage for all people begins again in earnest.” And, being unable to help myself, I said, “I suspect God’s proud of California today, too.”

At that point, the discussion hit something of a lull, which wasn’t my intent, but a fact I considered serendipitous nevertheless. My conversation partner quickly excused himself, and I went back to staring at the inside of my eyelids....

here’s the thing: Liberal Christians love the Bible. No, seriously. We love the Bible. We just refuse to treat it as though it is a set of timeless golden tablets that says all that needs to be said once and for all about everything of importance. (It doesn’t say anything, for instance, about why the Chicago Cubs haven’t won a World Series in over 100 years.)

We liberals refuse to treat the Bible as a casuistical rule book for every conceivable eventuality, or as a precise blue print for every possible organizational contingency.

LIBERAL CHRISTIANS AREN’T LIBERAL IN SPITE OF THE BIBLE, BUT BECAUSE OF IT. THEY DON’T PURSUE JUSTICE FOR LGBT PEOPLE BECAUSE THEY HAVEN’T READ SCRIPTURE, BUT PRECISELY BECAUSE THEY HAVE. And in the arc of the narrative of God’s interaction with humanity, liberal Christians find a radical expansiveness, an urgent desire to broaden the embrace of God’s hospitality to include those whom the religious big shots are always kicking to the sidelines.

In fact, on behalf of liberal Christians, I’m calling for a moratorium on the Liberals-hate-the-Bible meme. I’d like to suggest that the burden of proof should be on those who would read the Hebrew prophets and the Jesus of the Gospels and come away thinking that God has no problem tightening the screws on the abused and the powerless:

quote:

“Come unto me all you who are weary and heavy laden...and I will make sure that, until you get your life together to suit Pat Robertson and Mike Huckabee, your weariness and heavy laden-ness will increase exponentially.”


THE PROBLEM WITH ASSUMING LIBERAL CHRISTIANS HATE THE BIBLE ISN’T JUST THAT IT FAILS TO TAKE LIBERALS SERIOUSLY, BUT THAT IT FAILS TO TAKE THE BIBLE SERIOUSLY.


Hear, hear!




jlf1961 -> RE: Do Liberal Christians Hate The Bible? (7/7/2013 4:31:07 PM)

Flight, I know what you are getting at, however, due to the stereotypes that are being placed on people the following is actually true....


Never mind, suffice it to say that no matter what anyone says, the other side is going to call them a liar.




dcnovice -> RE: Do Liberal Christians Hate The Bible? (7/7/2013 4:47:38 PM)

quote:

Liberal Christians love the Bible. No, seriously. We love the Bible. We just refuse to treat it as though it is a set of timeless golden tablets that says all that needs to be said once and for all about everything of importance. (It doesn’t say anything, for instance, about why the Chicago Cubs haven’t won a World Series in over 100 years.)

We liberals refuse to treat the Bible as a casuistical rule book for every conceivable eventuality, or as a precise blue print for every possible organizational contingency.

This brings to mind something I've long pondered as a liberal church lady. Liberal Christians are really good at saying what the Bible is not: a literal memo from God, a science text, a ready-made code of conduct for the 21st century. And we're really lousy at saying what it is and why it matters to us.

That inability to articulate a scriptural vision plays, I suspect, a large role in the divides among Christians over sexuality. More than once, I've read of African bishops saying, "You gave us the Bible, and now you're saying to disregard it." And liberal Christianity hasn't, alas, come up with a good answer to that.




DomKen -> RE: Do Liberal Christians Hate The Bible? (7/7/2013 4:55:08 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

quote:

Liberal Christians love the Bible. No, seriously. We love the Bible. We just refuse to treat it as though it is a set of timeless golden tablets that says all that needs to be said once and for all about everything of importance. (It doesn’t say anything, for instance, about why the Chicago Cubs haven’t won a World Series in over 100 years.)

We liberals refuse to treat the Bible as a casuistical rule book for every conceivable eventuality, or as a precise blue print for every possible organizational contingency.

This brings to mind something I've long pondered as a liberal church lady. Liberal Christians are really good at saying what the Bible is not: a literal memo from God, a science text, a ready-made code of conduct for the 21st century. And we're really lousy at saying what it is and why it matters to us.

That inability to articulate a scriptural vision plays, I suspect, a large role in the divides among Christians over sexuality. More than once, I've read of African bishops saying, "You gave us the Bible, and now you're saying to disregard it." And liberal Christianity hasn't, alas, come up with a good answer to that.

Both sides pick and choose. Conservative Christians have somehow convinced people they take it all literally but of course they don't any more than liberal Christians do.

From my outsiders perspective liberal Christians put more emphasis on the New Testament and specifically the Sermon on the Mount. Conservative Christians put a lot more emphasis on the Old Testament and on the Epistles.




Kirata -> RE: Do Liberal Christians Hate The Bible? (7/7/2013 4:57:44 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Fightdirecto

Derek Penwell

Hear, hear!

And here, here! is a fix for your broken link: [:)]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/derek-penwell/liberal-christians_b_3526681.html

K.




tazzygirl -> RE: Do Liberal Christians Hate The Bible? (7/7/2013 5:03:44 PM)

quote:

This brings to mind something I've long pondered as a liberal church lady. Liberal Christians are really good at saying what the Bible is not: a literal memo from God, a science text, a ready-made code of conduct for the 21st century. And we're really lousy at saying what it is and why it matters to us.


What it IS

An excellently written piece of literature handed down from word of mouth before being "written" that gives a great depiction of the time (as much as word of mouth can be trusted). It gives a historical look into the times, and glimpses of the reasons behind some things. (think red tides and shellfish).




fucktoyprincess -> RE: Do Liberal Christians Hate The Bible? (7/8/2013 1:40:11 PM)

I doubt that liberal Christians hate the Bible. But they do pick and choose what suits them. Which does beg the question of how they are picking and choosing. It does beg the question of why not just jettison the notion of either "Christian" or "Bible" and simply choose what is right to do. After all, if every word of any holy book is NOT to be followed, then why should we place any large reliance on any religious book as a "code" for how to lead our lives, or how to decide how others lead their lives. Perhaps liberal Christians are simply doing what seems to make the most sense. Returning to first principles - i.e., returning to moral concepts that predate all religious "writings". [sm=2cents.gif]




Rule -> RE: Do Liberal Christians Hate The Bible? (7/8/2013 2:25:13 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: fucktoyprincess
returning to moral concepts that predate all religious "writings". [sm=2cents.gif]

Please prove that.




vincentML -> RE: Do Liberal Christians Hate The Bible? (7/8/2013 3:37:10 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Rule

quote:

ORIGINAL: fucktoyprincess
returning to moral concepts that predate all religious "writings". [sm=2cents.gif]

Please prove that.

How can you challenge her to PROVE something which she qualified with "perhaps" in the preceeding sentence?




dcnovice -> RE: Do Liberal Christians Hate The Bible? (7/8/2013 3:42:55 PM)

quote:

How can you challenge her to PROVE something which she qualified with "perhaps" in the preceeding sentence?

My reading was that "perhaps" applied to "liberal Christians are simply doing what seems to make the most sense." The mention of "moral concepts that predate all religious 'writings.'" strikes me as unmodified.




Rule -> RE: Do Liberal Christians Hate The Bible? (7/8/2013 3:45:57 PM)

DC novice wins from VincentML as regards reading skills and comprehension.




vincentML -> RE: Do Liberal Christians Hate The Bible? (7/8/2013 3:46:05 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

quote:

How can you challenge her to PROVE something which she qualified with "perhaps" in the preceeding sentence?

My reading was that "perhaps" applied to "liberal Christians are simply doing what seems to make the most sense." The mention of "moral concepts that predate all religious 'writings.'" strikes me as unmodified.

The two sentences seem related to me. FTP can clarify if she has a mind to.




vincentML -> RE: Do Liberal Christians Hate The Bible? (7/8/2013 3:47:14 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Rule

DC novice wins from VincentML as regards reading skills and comprehension.

Not unexpectedly a lame answer.




Charles6682 -> RE: Do Liberal Christians Hate The Bible? (7/8/2013 4:00:45 PM)

I would have certainly been considered a "Liberal Christian" growing up. And I still do appericate the Liberal Christians today. They at least show that not every Christian is a hateful,intolerant, right winger. That said, the Bible is pretty clear on some issues. I appericate that Liberal Christians are trying to bring the Bible into the 21st century but the hateful biggots still far outnumber those who are more tolerant. The first thing the "holy rollers" do is point straight to the words in the Bible to justify their hate. But anyone can use words to make thier aurgument. I consider myself to be Spiritual, Non-Religous these days. I don't follow any one particular religion.




Charles6682 -> RE: Do Liberal Christians Hate The Bible? (7/8/2013 4:01:51 PM)

Religion divides, Spirituality Unites!




Rule -> RE: Do Liberal Christians Hate The Bible? (7/8/2013 4:04:31 PM)

The returning does not have anything to do with the 'first principles'. The people of those days were barely above animal status in my opinion and would not recognize a moral concept if it lifted its hat to them.

And yet here this poster is blissfully assuming and asserting that those humans were moral beings. So I said: prove it.




dcnovice -> RE: Do Liberal Christians Hate The Bible? (7/8/2013 4:04:34 PM)

quote:

Not unexpectedly a lame answer.

I don't know. I kinda liked it. [:)]




PeonForHer -> RE: Do Liberal Christians Hate The Bible? (7/8/2013 5:56:42 PM)

quote:

An excellently written piece of literature


What makes you say that, Tazzy? Could you say how it's excellently written next to, say, a work by Shakespeare? Or even Stephen King?

I ask you, particularly, because I know you're capable of answering without being snide, sarcastic, smug, pompous and in general the worst possible advertisement for that which you support. [;)]




GotSteel -> RE: Do Liberal Christians Hate The Bible? (7/8/2013 6:12:06 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML
How can you challenge her to PROVE something which she qualified with "perhaps" in the preceeding sentence?


I suspect it has to do with circumcised unicorns.




dcnovice -> RE: Do Liberal Christians Hate The Bible? (7/8/2013 6:16:19 PM)

quote:

What makes you say that, Tazzy? Could you say how it's excellently written next to, say, a work by Shakespeare? Or even Stephen King?

You might find Christopher Hitchens's essay on the King James Version an interesting read.

http://www.vanityfair.com/culture/features/2011/05/hitchens-201105




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