California Has the Answer! (Full Version)

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jlf1961 -> California Has the Answer! (7/7/2013 7:34:03 PM)

Everyone is screaming about Texas and its Republican created abortion law...

But California has an approach that is, well creative.

quote:

Female inmates sterilized in California prisons without approval

Doctors under contract with the California Department of Corrections and Rehabilitation sterilized nearly 150 female inmates from 2006 to 2010 without required state approvals, the Center for Investigative Reporting has found.

At least 148 women received tubal ligations in violation of prison rules during those five years – and there are perhaps 100 more dating back to the late 1990s, according to state documents and interviews.

From 1997 to 2010, the state paid doctors $147,460 to perform the procedure, according to a database of contracted medical services for state prisoners.

Read more here





tazzygirl -> RE: California Has the Answer! (7/7/2013 7:54:46 PM)

Disgusting



jlf1961 -> RE: California Has the Answer! (7/7/2013 8:05:41 PM)

Although California has a Republican governor, the state house and most other elected officials are Democrat.... so which party is to blame here?



tazzygirl -> RE: California Has the Answer! (7/7/2013 8:10:28 PM)

I dont see a party blame in everything. This looks more like people not knowing the rules.. and others not following the rules. For myself, I hold the medical staff more accountable than anyone. They should absolutely know the rules they are working under.



DomKen -> RE: California Has the Answer! (7/7/2013 8:19:13 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

Although California has a Republican governor, the state house and most other elected officials are Democrat.... so which party is to blame here?

California has a Democratic governor.

In this case it is too soon to tell if any pol is to blame. Forced sterilization is against the law in California. The article stresses this was done without the approval of state officials.

The major issue is that these doctors seem to have coerced female inmates to have the procedure done.



tazzygirl -> RE: California Has the Answer! (7/7/2013 8:29:54 PM)

Coerced some... a few seemed to be appreciative. I have no problem with those who wanted it... but the repeated pressure for those who didnt..... the rules are strict, stricter if public funds are used.

For example, California...

Coverage Conditions
A sterilization will be covered by Medi-Cal only if the following conditions are met:

4. The individual is not institutionalized. For the purposes of Medi-Cal, an institutionalized
individual is a person who is:
• Involuntarily confined or detained under civil or criminal statute in a correctional or rehabilitative facility, including a mental hospital or other facility for the care and treatment of mental illness; or
• Confined under a voluntary commitment in a mental hospital or other facility for the care and treatment of mental illness.

6. At least 30 days, but not more than 180 days, have passed between the date of the written and
signed informed consent and the date of the sterilization, except in the following instances:

• Sterilization may be performed at the time of emergency abdominal surgery if:
 The patient consented to the sterilization at least 30 days before the intended date of
sterilization, AND
 At least 72 hours have passed after written informed consent was given and the
performance of the emergency surgery.

• Sterilization may be performed at the time of premature delivery if the following requirements are met:

The written informed consent was given at least 30 days before the expected date of
the delivery, AND

 At least 72 hours have passed after written informed consent to be sterilized was given.


http://www.promedhealth.com/std%2091%20sterilization.pdf



MrRodgers -> RE: California Has the Answer! (7/7/2013 9:16:41 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen


quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

Although California has a Republican governor, the state house and most other elected officials are Democrat.... so which party is to blame here?

California has a Democratic governor.


.....only since 2011. Schwarzenegger (R) till then.



erieangel -> RE: California Has the Answer! (7/9/2013 8:45:21 PM)

Isn't this something similar to what the Nazis had done?




njlauren -> RE: California Has the Answer! (7/9/2013 9:04:34 PM)

I don't think it is republican or democrat, I think these doctors took it on themselves to do this. This shouldn't be all that shocking, doctors from the Public health service deliberately didn't treat venereal diseases in poor black men who came to clinics for treatment, so that they could see the effects over time of the disease, and this went on I believe for 40 years, despite the advent of penicillin and other anti biotics (it ran from 1932-1972, and only was stopped because someone blew the whistle on them)....there are doctors who are caring, warm human beings, and there are doctors who frankly scare the crap out of me.



Moonhead -> RE: California Has the Answer! (7/10/2013 3:02:04 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: erieangel

Isn't this something similar to what the Nazis had done?



No, they just gassed people instead of sterilising them.



vincentML -> RE: California Has the Answer! (7/10/2013 7:05:01 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

Although California has a Republican governor, the state house and most other elected officials are Democrat.... so which party is to blame here?

A more appropriate question: which gender is to blame?



Marc2b -> RE: California Has the Answer! (7/10/2013 8:10:44 AM)

quote:

No, they just gassed people instead of sterilising them.


IIRC, didn't the nazis start out sterilizing undesirables like the mentally retarded before they decided it was simpler to just kill people outright?



Moonhead -> RE: California Has the Answer! (7/10/2013 11:30:18 AM)

Yep, but that was quite a small scale thing early on, and limited to people who'd been institutionalised, at least at first. Didn't they claim that they were following your own country's lead on that one at Nuremberg? Looks like it's an idea that's come back into fashion, which is worrying.



Marc2b -> RE: California Has the Answer! (7/10/2013 12:33:52 PM)

quote:

Yep, but that was quite a small scale thing early on, and limited to people who'd been institutionalised, at least at first. Didn't they claim that they were following your own country's lead on that one at Nuremberg? Looks like it's an idea that's come back into fashion, which is worrying.


Okay, maybe I'm being a little over sensitive over the implied dig at the USA but I'm going with it anyway:

Careful there. It is possible that the nazis got their notions of eugenics from the United States... or they might have gotten them from Canada, Australia, Brazil, the United Kingdom or any other number of nations that unfortunately followed the ideas of that crazy cousin of Charles Darwin, Francis Galton.

Where was he from?

Plenty of blame to go around when it comes to human craziness and evil.

But you are right, it is worrying that such notions are coming back.




Moonhead -> RE: California Has the Answer! (7/10/2013 2:22:35 PM)

No dig was intended: one of the Nuremberg defendants actually defended their sterilisation programme on those grounds, believe it or not. Certainly the 'States wasn't the only offender around the turn of the last century, so I apologise if it looked like that was what I meant.



njlauren -> RE: California Has the Answer! (7/10/2013 7:34:31 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead


quote:

ORIGINAL: erieangel

Isn't this something similar to what the Nazis had done?



No, they just gassed people instead of sterilising them.

They did both, they did forced sterilization of Jews and Gypsies and other 'undesirables', since they wouldn't kill off potential slave labor but didn't want them to breed.



njlauren -> RE: California Has the Answer! (7/10/2013 7:44:30 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Marc2b

quote:

Yep, but that was quite a small scale thing early on, and limited to people who'd been institutionalised, at least at first. Didn't they claim that they were following your own country's lead on that one at Nuremberg? Looks like it's an idea that's come back into fashion, which is worrying.


Okay, maybe I'm being a little over sensitive over the implied dig at the USA but I'm going with it anyway:

Careful there. It is possible that the nazis got their notions of eugenics from the United States... or they might have gotten them from Canada, Australia, Brazil, the United Kingdom or any other number of nations that unfortunately followed the ideas of that crazy cousin of Charles Darwin, Francis Galton.

Where was he from?

Plenty of blame to go around when it comes to human craziness and evil.

But you are right, it is worrying that such notions are coming back.



Eugenics had basis going back a long, long time, there were those proposing Eugenics in the US, primarily the WASP 'original settlers" upset at influxes of people from "inferior' places like southern Europe and Eastern Europe (the head of one of the steel companies, that called people from eastern Europe "Hungarians" as a general term, when asked about the horrible condition in the mills and the suffering of the workers, said something to the effect that it doesn't bother him, because they don't feel pain). Not to mention that idea of inferiority were justifications of the slave trade, that started long before the US was created.Ideals of superiority, genocide, are very, very old, the Aztecs destroyed whole racial groups and so forth.I haven't seen anything that puts evil on any particular group, what history proves is human beings are capable of great heights and some incredibly low lows.



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