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Black American dropout-95% unemployed - 7/9/2013 5:11:39 AM   
Kana


Posts: 6676
Joined: 10/24/2006
Status: offline 		Presented with little comment other than to say that I am shocked this story hasn't been discussed more. This may be the most troubling statistic I've seen in ages. I find it truly scary for our society when one considers that in many major cities the drop out rate can run up to 70%.

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/businessdesk/2013/07/jobless-rate-for-poor-black-te.html

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RE: Black American dropout-95% unemployed - 7/9/2013 5:33:09 AM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline 		The dropout problem is one of the biggest problems facing this nation and hardly anyone talks about it. It's pretty hard to find a job that pays a living wage with a bachelor's degree much less just a high school diploma. Dropouts are lucky to get work at a fast food joint.

The problem is at least in part a troubling anti intellectualism and anti education culture amongst a great many people who are in the lower class. There is intense peer pressure on these young people not to do well in school and a general lack of encouragement from their parents.

This is one of those problems that both scares me for the future of this nation and baffles me as to a way forward to ending it.

(in reply to Kana)
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RE: Black American dropout-95% unemployed - 7/9/2013 6:19:46 AM   
DarkSteven


Posts: 28072
Joined: 5/2/2008
Status: offline 		The thing that troubles me is that the future is so bleak for dropouts and yet the dropout rate is so high. Why? Is getting a job considered so valueless that people will spurn it and drop out? Is school considered too hard? Why is education so undervalued? Why is working so undervalued?

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The small-breasted ones want larger breasts. The large-breasted ones want smaller ones. The straight-haired ones curl their hair, and the curly-haired ones straighten theirs...

Quit fretting. We men love you."

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RE: Black American dropout-95% unemployed - 7/9/2013 6:27:47 AM   
Kana


Posts: 6676
Joined: 10/24/2006
Status: offline 		Break the numbers down a bit:
I live in Baltimore, a city 64.3% African American (AA)
Four years ago, 50% of Baltimore AA's dropped out. Last year the cities published rate was about 33.33%.
Now, these numbers are skewed in the cities favor by some of the testing criteria-the numbers are probably about 5-10% than the city states.
Which means, best case scenario, before any other incidences can be taken into consideration, Baltimore has an unemployment rate of over 21 freaking percent, with all the resultant drain on social programs involved.
That's simply staggering.
And the cost has got to be astronomical.

Let's not forget either, I'm working with the best case numbers. Run with a 50% drop out rate (much more in line with the cities historical figures, and unemp shoots up to over 32%. That's simply absurd.)
Now I realize that a large % of these folk are only technically unemployed. A large chunk of em have jobs-they work in The Game.
But they represent a social cost that's astronomical, all drain while putting nothing into the pot. It would be nice to say that this is a black problem, or a city problem, or a poverty problem, or any such nonsense, but the reality is that this is an American problem, a social ill that costs each and every American equally.

< Message edited by Kana -- 7/9/2013 6:28:20 AM >

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"One of God's own prototypes. A high-powered mutant of some kind never even considered for mass production. Too weird to live, and too rare to die. "
HST

(in reply to DomKen)
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RE: Black American dropout-95% unemployed - 7/9/2013 7:03:55 AM   
DesideriScuri


Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
The dropout problem is one of the biggest problems facing this nation and hardly anyone talks about it. It's pretty hard to find a job that pays a living wage with a bachelor's degree much less just a high school diploma. Dropouts are lucky to get work at a fast food joint.
The problem is at least in part a troubling anti intellectualism and anti education culture amongst a great many people who are in the lower class. There is intense peer pressure on these young people not to do well in school and a general lack of encouragement from their parents.
This is one of those problems that both scares me for the future of this nation and baffles me as to a way forward to ending it.


Re-quoting for emphasis and truth:
quote:

The problem is at least in part a troubling anti intellectualism and anti education culture amongst a great many people who are in the lower class. There is intense peer pressure on these young people not to do well in school and a general lack of encouragement from their parents.


IMO, these are the greatest factors in academic achievement. Both can be overcome by the student him/herself, but the requisite motivation is staggering. You tend to have less of the first and more of the second in areas of higher socioeconomic areas, and the school achievements tend to higher. Even within the same District, you'll have schools that do better simply because of those 2 factors. It's not a black thing, though it does include more blacks than not. There is correlation, but not causation.

The issue that I have yet to find anyone with a good answer to (and I have talked to all of 3 school superintendents - admittedly, a low sample size) is how to break the cycle and change the home academic environments. There is no good reason for it. None at all.



_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
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  • Limited Government
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(in reply to DomKen)
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RE: Black American dropout-95% unemployed - 7/9/2013 8:56:56 AM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
The issue that I have yet to find anyone with a good answer to (and I have talked to all of 3 school superintendents - admittedly, a low sample size) is how to break the cycle and change the home academic environments. There is no good reason for it. None at all.

I've discussed it with a fair number of educators and read some academic work on the subject. It seems to be many different factors.

First off the working poor parent is often working evening or overnight shifts (if not multiple jobs) so no one is at home in the evening to require homework and study.

Also there is the generational issue, the parents may both be dropouts and not have any motivation to give their children the education they did not get, this is made worse by the number of teen mothers. The mothers are simply too young to have learned the life lessons that show that their kids need a great education. I read a paper indicating that even in the parents of this sort motivated to break the cycle they didn't have the tools to do so, specifically these parents often lack the reading skills needed to read to their children which is proven way to encourage children to read.

The peer pressure problem can be very severe, escalating to actual physical assaults on kids who excel in class. Some of the source seems to be the dropouts and unmotivated not yet dropouts. They pressure their peers to be like them. With so few positive role models and so many negative ones it is easy to see how the kids could get so far off from what the rest of society thinks is the best life path.

Of course drug use and black market economic activity amongst both parents and children don't help any of this.

Fixing it? No one has any idea that seems really feasible. Some things like adult literacy classes help specific parts of the problem but changing culture intentionally is not something anyone knows how to do.

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RE: Black American dropout-95% unemployed - 7/9/2013 9:19:52 AM   
FelineRanger


Posts: 658
Joined: 9/4/2012
Status: offline 		This is artificially being made into a black problem. It's a poverty problem that actually crosses all lines of ethnicity. Go into a poverty stricken city like Camden or certain parts of Philly, you won't see whites getting jobs and blacks being turned away. The single most accurate statement in the entire article is
quote:

The labor market is still in a depressed state. Employers are telling us, and showing this in their behavior, that they'd rather hire older workers and young adults than teenagers. They find that they can do it. When we were talking to employers and I asked them about customer service, "Why were you hiring younger college grads rather than teenagers?"

They said, "For one reason, because I can."
Obviously, the emphasis is mine.

Basically, it's still an employers' market and they can do whatever they want. Since I'm out of work and searching intensively, I can also attest to the absurdity of employers' reasons not to hire.

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RE: Black American dropout-95% unemployed - 7/9/2013 9:54:37 AM   
vincentML


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Joined: 10/31/2009
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quote:

Basically, it's still an employers' market and they can do whatever they want. Since I'm out of work and searching intensively, I can also attest to the absurdity of employers' reasons not to hire.

There is really too much blaming the victim here. When I graduated high school back in the day there were no shortages of decent paying factory jobs and need for skilled labor. It is ridiculous to lament lack of motivation among young people when manufacturing jobs have been outsourced or replaced by technology. What remains are low wage service jobs at fast food stores which do not require much in the way of education.

(in reply to FelineRanger)
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RE: Black American dropout-95% unemployed - 7/9/2013 10:03:49 AM   
Hillwilliam


Posts: 19394
Joined: 8/27/2008
Status: offline 		I taught in a big city for a few years.
The sociologists call it the "Crabs in a pot syndrome". when you are cooking a pot of crabs, if one tries to climb out, it looks like the others try to drag him back in.
It's also really hard to convince a kid to stay in school when his friends are flashing rolls of bills from their ummmmmm 'activities'

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RE: Black American dropout-95% unemployed - 7/9/2013 10:06:24 AM   
MrRodgers


Posts: 10542
Joined: 7/30/2005
Status: offline 		Allow me to interject that this is unfortunately not just a problem of poverty except to say it is also the poverty of discipline and desire at home. There is another problem...it isn't cool to be a smart. It's being a nerd and that's uncool.

Then what happens is that they don't attend which takes them away from teachers who could motivate. Enough of that and soon they just drop out. I read where in the 18-24 group of all AA's, unemployment is 25% nationwide.

< Message edited by MrRodgers -- 7/9/2013 10:08:24 AM >

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RE: Black American dropout-95% unemployed - 7/9/2013 10:10:16 AM   
tj444


Posts: 7574
Joined: 3/7/2010
Status: offline 		Here in a robust job market city (Houston).. the unemployment rate for black people is double what it is for white people.. and while Obama pats himself on the back for the official unemployment rate dropping, it seems to barely drop for unemployed blacks.. I look at the stats of what "household income" (2 people's earnings?) and that is poverty level or below in many areas here.. and the stats show its almost 100% black..

One thing about dropping out.. re- Ms Jentel from Zimmy's trial.. while she can speak 3 languages (good for her), the fact that today she can not read or write English is gonna make getting a job hard for her, or any black person that cant read or write (english).. If some of these kids are dropping out cuz they cant read/write.. then yeah, i can see why they are dropping out cuz they are likely getting Fs.. that should be something that is fixable, assuming a kid can be convinced putting the effort into learning will be worth it.. but i see most of them falling thru the cracks and doomed to poverty.. (which leads to drug use & going down the wrong path http://www.collarchat.com/m_4489720/mpage_1/key_/tm.htm#4489720 )..

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RE: Black American dropout-95% unemployed - 7/9/2013 2:30:09 PM   
papassion


Posts: 487
Joined: 3/28/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

quote:

Basically, it's still an employers' market and they can do whatever they want. Since I'm out of work and searching intensively, I can also attest to the absurdity of employers' reasons not to hire.

There is really too much blaming the victim here. When I graduated high school back in the day there were no shortages of decent paying factory jobs and need for skilled labor. It is ridiculous to lament lack of motivation among young people when manufacturing jobs have been outsourced or replaced by technology. What remains are low wage service jobs at fast food stores which do not require much in the way of education.


Yeah, lets make the problem worse with the Liberal's HUMANE plan to bring in millions more of uneducated workers who will work "under the table" so the US worker will be fucked out of even the fast food jobs!

Then again, why work? Get citizenship, get pregnant, tell them you don't know who the father is, and you get an apartment, food, money, child care (so you can fuck around some more) etc., etc. Yeah, these LIBERALS really know how to set us up!

(in reply to vincentML)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: Black American dropout-95% unemployed - 7/9/2013 2:38:28 PM   
papassion


Posts: 487
Joined: 3/28/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: papassion


quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

quote:

Basically, it's still an employers' market and they can do whatever they want. Since I'm out of work and searching intensively, I can also attest to the absurdity of employers' reasons not to hire.

There is really too much blaming the victim here. When I graduated high school back in the day there were no shortages of decent paying factory jobs and need for skilled labor. It is ridiculous to lament lack of motivation among young people when manufacturing jobs have been outsourced or replaced by technology. What remains are low wage service jobs at fast food stores which do not require much in the way of education.


Yeah, lets make the problem worse with the Liberal's HUMANE plan to bring in millions more of uneducated workers who will work "under the table" so the US worker will be fucked out of even the fast food jobs!

Then again, why work? Get citizenship, get pregnant, tell them you don't know who the father is, and you get an apartment, food, money, child care (so you can fuck around some more) etc., etc. Yeah, these LIBERALS really know how to set us up!


I just realized, Liberals can't be that stupid to think their foolish plans aren't costing $$$$$$ of money. Do they think if they put a "I am Liberal" on their tax return, they won't be billed for the extra costs their foolish plans incur?

(in reply to papassion)
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RE: Black American dropout-95% unemployed - 7/9/2013 3:28:37 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		Its the parents fault... or the child him or herself. No one else's...If you really want to help go HERE.

Butch

< Message edited by kdsub -- 7/9/2013 3:29:16 PM >

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RE: Black American dropout-95% unemployed - 7/9/2013 3:57:51 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: papassion


quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

quote:

Basically, it's still an employers' market and they can do whatever they want. Since I'm out of work and searching intensively, I can also attest to the absurdity of employers' reasons not to hire.

There is really too much blaming the victim here. When I graduated high school back in the day there were no shortages of decent paying factory jobs and need for skilled labor. It is ridiculous to lament lack of motivation among young people when manufacturing jobs have been outsourced or replaced by technology. What remains are low wage service jobs at fast food stores which do not require much in the way of education.


Yeah, lets make the problem worse with the Liberal's HUMANE plan to bring in millions more of uneducated workers who will work "under the table" so the US worker will be fucked out of even the fast food jobs!

Then again, why work? Get citizenship, get pregnant, tell them you don't know who the father is, and you get an apartment, food, money, child care (so you can fuck around some more) etc., etc. Yeah, these LIBERALS really know how to set us up!

What plan are you referring to? The only immigration plan currently under discussion is to regularize the status of those undocumented immigrants that are already here.

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RE: Black American dropout-95% unemployed - 7/10/2013 2:19:16 AM   
SadistDave


Posts: 801
Joined: 3/11/2005
Status: offline 		As Doug Stanhope pointed out, it's not like America has a problem with all the good hospital jobs going to Norwegian brain surgeons who snuck into the country on herring boats. Legitimizing millions of criminal immigrants will affect the low skill, poorly educated labor pool. Since that labor pool is disproportionately black drop-outs, it's pretty obvious who will suffer the most.

But let's be honest. Liberals only care about any group of people as long as they're voting for liberals. Keeping blacks uneducated and enslaved in government welfare pretty much assures liberals of a strong black voter base, because they've made sure blacks are too ignorant to know they're just useful idiots of the left. It's been the liberal M.O. for decades, and isn't likely to change until blacks wise up.

Unfortunately, I believe that liberals have done such a good job keeping blacks on the government plantation for so long that the prospect of losing more jobs to criminal immigrants who have been "legitimized" doesn't even register in their communities.

-SD-

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RE: Black American dropout-95% unemployed - 7/10/2013 6:16:21 AM   
thishereboi


Posts: 14463
Joined: 6/19/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

quote:

Basically, it's still an employers' market and they can do whatever they want. Since I'm out of work and searching intensively, I can also attest to the absurdity of employers' reasons not to hire.

There is really too much blaming the victim here. When I graduated high school back in the day there were no shortages of decent paying factory jobs and need for skilled labor. It is ridiculous to lament lack of motivation among young people when manufacturing jobs have been outsourced or replaced by technology. What remains are low wage service jobs at fast food stores which do not require much in the way of education.



As far as I could tell the article was talking about teenage dropouts. What good would jobs requiring skilled labor do for kids who quit before they learned a skill? Seems to me like they need those low wage jobs that do not require much in the way of education since that is where they are at.

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RE: Black American dropout-95% unemployed - 7/10/2013 6:27:32 AM   
MasterCaneman


Posts: 3842
Joined: 3/21/2013
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SadistDave

As Doug Stanhope pointed out, it's not like America has a problem with all the good hospital jobs going to Norwegian brain surgeons who snuck into the country on herring boats. Legitimizing millions of criminal immigrants will affect the low skill, poorly educated labor pool. Since that labor pool is disproportionately black drop-outs, it's pretty obvious who will suffer the most.

But let's be honest. Liberals only care about any group of people as long as they're voting for liberals. Keeping blacks uneducated and enslaved in government welfare pretty much assures liberals of a strong black voter base, because they've made sure blacks are too ignorant to know they're just useful idiots of the left. It's been the liberal M.O. for decades, and isn't likely to change until blacks wise up.

Unfortunately, I believe that liberals have done such a good job keeping blacks on the government plantation for so long that the prospect of losing more jobs to criminal immigrants who have been "legitimized" doesn't even register in their communities.

-SD-

THIS, in abundance. I think it's criminal the way the Democrat Party uses this tactic, especially here where I live. Last year, they spent half a BILLION dollars in ONE school district and the best they could manage was a less than 50% graduation rate. Now, I am by no means a conservative. I support legalization, I'm pro-choice, and have no issues with gay marriage in the least. But I see what happens when machine politics takes over, and the same names are on the ballot year after year, confident that certain districts will always vote for them.
I'd like to see the black community open its collective eyes and see that they're being used to ensure that (mainly) wealthy white men remain in office. Oh sure, they allow a few tokens to get elected here and there to give the appearance of equity, but in this respect the Dems are exactly the same as the Republicans.

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RE: Black American dropout-95% unemployed - 7/10/2013 6:39:25 AM   
DarkSteven


Posts: 28072
Joined: 5/2/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
The dropout problem is one of the biggest problems facing this nation and hardly anyone talks about it. It's pretty hard to find a job that pays a living wage with a bachelor's degree much less just a high school diploma. Dropouts are lucky to get work at a fast food joint.
The problem is at least in part a troubling anti intellectualism and anti education culture amongst a great many people who are in the lower class. There is intense peer pressure on these young people not to do well in school and a general lack of encouragement from their parents.
This is one of those problems that both scares me for the future of this nation and baffles me as to a way forward to ending it.


Re-quoting for emphasis and truth:
quote:

The problem is at least in part a troubling anti intellectualism and anti education culture amongst a great many people who are in the lower class. There is intense peer pressure on these young people not to do well in school and a general lack of encouragement from their parents.


IMO, these are the greatest factors in academic achievement. Both can be overcome by the student him/herself, but the requisite motivation is staggering. You tend to have less of the first and more of the second in areas of higher socioeconomic areas, and the school achievements tend to higher. Even within the same District, you'll have schools that do better simply because of those 2 factors. It's not a black thing, though it does include more blacks than not. There is correlation, but not causation.

The issue that I have yet to find anyone with a good answer to (and I have talked to all of 3 school superintendents - admittedly, a low sample size) is how to break the cycle and change the home academic environments. There is no good reason for it. None at all.




I know someone who runs a small nonprofit in Chicago. It's an after-school program for kids one of whose parents are on drugs, in jail, etc. She provides them with hot meals, classes in stuff like martial arts, drumming, guitar, etc. She requires them to read a certain amount of time each day, depending on age, and to do their homework. For some, it's the closest thing they know to a family.

Obviously, these kids are prime candidates to be in gangs. She's had some of them get through college, when they would likely never even get through high school otherwise.

She's got fifty-some kids right now, and I wish she had the funds to take in more.

_____________________________

"You women....

The small-breasted ones want larger breasts. The large-breasted ones want smaller ones. The straight-haired ones curl their hair, and the curly-haired ones straighten theirs...

Quit fretting. We men love you."

(in reply to DesideriScuri)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: Black American dropout-95% unemployed - 7/10/2013 6:41:05 AM   
RacerJim


Posts: 1583
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen


quote:

ORIGINAL: papassion


quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

quote:

Basically, it's still an employers' market and they can do whatever they want. Since I'm out of work and searching intensively, I can also attest to the absurdity of employers' reasons not to hire.

There is really too much blaming the victim here. When I graduated high school back in the day there were no shortages of decent paying factory jobs and need for skilled labor. It is ridiculous to lament lack of motivation among young people when manufacturing jobs have been outsourced or replaced by technology. What remains are low wage service jobs at fast food stores which do not require much in the way of education.


Yeah, lets make the problem worse with the Liberal's HUMANE plan to bring in millions more of uneducated workers who will work "under the table" so the US worker will be fucked out of even the fast food jobs!

Then again, why work? Get citizenship, get pregnant, tell them you don't know who the father is, and you get an apartment, food, money, child care (so you can fuck around some more) etc., etc. Yeah, these LIBERALS really know how to set us up!

What plan are you referring to? The only immigration plan currently under discussion is to regularize the status of those undocumented immigrants that are already here.

Under the plan you are referring to A MINIMUM of ELEVEN MILLION ILLEGAL ALIENS already here would get AMNESTY/CITIZENSHIP without CLOSING AND LOCKING the border.

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 20
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