RE: The Past, It Burns.

RE: The Past, It Burns. (Full Version)

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vincentML -> RE: The Past, It Burns. (7/11/2013 6:00:46 AM)
quote: It goes beyond a person, it goes beyond a country, its the rampaging need for security that makes all of us the victims..... All of us are victims? What a bunch of whiney crap and hilarious conspiracy weaving! How exactly are any of us a victim of the increased need for national security? Please don't give me the generic "we are being spied upon" through our phone calls and emails. What makes any of us think our emails and phone calls are so damn important to the Feds? The worse we suffer is commercial tracking of our online activity to target us for ads and junk mail.

Zonie63 -> RE: The Past, It Burns. (7/11/2013 7:32:43 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MrRodgers quote: ORIGINAL: RottenJohnny quote: In an initiative aimed at rooting out future leakers and other security violators, President Barack Obama has ordered federal employees to report suspicious actions of their colleagues based on behavioral profiling techniques that are not scientifically proven to work, according to experts and government documents. Ah, the age old question, "Who watches the watchers?" Apparently the answer is "The watchers". I sense a pending implosion of the national security apparatus. As I've been trying to tell you all...the US govt. is gone. When needed, the US govt. turns into ruthless killers. The neocons own the FBI/CIA. Obama is playing ball because...HE WANTS TO STAY ALIVE !!! The next president let's go ahead and anoint Hillary...anybody you want. Trust me in no uncertain terms...things will get worse. Why ? Because she too will...WANT TO STAY ALIVE. Look people, THE poster child of conservatism, the man to change the whole dynamic of govt. Ronald Reagan was SUPPOSED TO DIE. When he didn't...he played ball. I don't think any of these people would have gotten elected at all if they didn't show a willingness to play ball. They would never have made it past the primaries if they weren't acceptable to the powers that be. I usually study the attitudes of the media during the primary process, and I've found the that candidates who get the most positive attention will usually be reflected in the voters' choices. That's how public opinion is manufactured, and that's how the electoral process remains under control. Public opinion is fickle, and can be changed rather quickly. More than wanting to stay alive, I think politicians want to be adored and loved by the public, and those who have the power to turn public opinion and make the people hate (or love) a given politician, have much more power than the FBI and CIA combined.

Lucylastic -> RE: The Past, It Burns. (7/11/2013 7:43:50 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: vincentML quote: It goes beyond a person, it goes beyond a country, its the rampaging need for security that makes all of us the victims..... All of us are victims? What a bunch of whiney crap and hilarious conspiracy weaving! How exactly are any of us a victim of the increased need for national security? Please don't give me the generic "we are being spied upon" through our phone calls and emails. What makes any of us think our emails and phone calls are so damn important to the Feds? The worse we suffer is commercial tracking of our online activity to target us for ads and junk mail. Pardon me for not putting quotation marks around the word victims...[8\|].what i meant by it was to say was the usa is not the only country to be watched by electronic communications. Being a brit ,,living in Canada, im more than aware of it. Please dont put words in my mouth about being spied upon....then berate me for something i didnt say. I could care less what someone might be reading, watching, or collecting. Being aware is not the same as being afraid or even paranoid.

MrRodgers -> RE: The Past, It Burns. (7/11/2013 8:30:05 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Zonie63 quote: ORIGINAL: MrRodgers quote: ORIGINAL: RottenJohnny quote: In an initiative aimed at rooting out future leakers and other security violators, President Barack Obama has ordered federal employees to report suspicious actions of their colleagues based on behavioral profiling techniques that are not scientifically proven to work, according to experts and government documents. Ah, the age old question, "Who watches the watchers?" Apparently the answer is "The watchers". I sense a pending implosion of the national security apparatus. As I've been trying to tell you all...the US govt. is gone. When needed, the US govt. turns into ruthless killers. The neocons own the FBI/CIA. Obama is playing ball because...HE WANTS TO STAY ALIVE !!! The next president let's go ahead and anoint Hillary...anybody you want. Trust me in no uncertain terms...things will get worse. Why ? Because she too will...WANT TO STAY ALIVE. Look people, THE poster child of conservatism, the man to change the whole dynamic of govt. Ronald Reagan was SUPPOSED TO DIE. When he didn't...he played ball. I don't think any of these people would have gotten elected at all if they didn't show a willingness to play ball. They would never have made it past the primaries if they weren't acceptable to the powers that be. I usually study the attitudes of the media during the primary process, and I've found the that candidates who get the most positive attention will usually be reflected in the voters' choices. That's how public opinion is manufactured, and that's how the electoral process remains under control. Public opinion is fickle, and can be changed rather quickly. More than wanting to stay alive, I think politicians want to be adored and loved by the public, and those who have the power to turn public opinion and make the people hate (or love) a given politician, have much more power than the FBI and CIA combined. I would really like to believe you and what you say is plausible and is part of the problem. However I heard a man on private public supported, i.e., listener supported radio and yes, honestly, I forgot his name. (Pacifica Radio) But he being THE principle person talking in the first person and without a shred of hearsay, this is what he told the radio interviewer WPFW, Wash., DC. In 1976 Reagan's campaign against Gerald Ford...was broke. This man on the radio was a contractor for Reagan's campaign. Reagan called him in to his office and asked the man to go to wall street and see what was needed to get some of their money. Understand events as they occurred. Reagan wanted no part of Bush I as his VP candidate but again, Reagan was desperate for money and political gravitas. The neocons of the time had access and the repub establishment pressured Reagan to take him, so in 6 mos....presto. It was Reagan/Bush. Reagan's campaign was so poor he went to yes, the dreaded federal govt. and got money. Still He needed more but when this man came back, Reagan asked again 'what do we need to do for wall street's money ?' he told Reagan, 'here's what you need to do...to stay alive.' Reagan blew the whole thing off either in disbelief or because he wouldn't jump threw those hoops, i.e., he wouldn't play ball. Now we have a neocon in Bush I who went right from Yale to the CIA (despite the now ridiculous denials then and since) and in no time was awarded (given) majority interest in an offshore Caribbean oil co. a CIA operation known as Zapata oil. Bush became a station chief including the area of Cuba. Here Reagan was still not going to play ball. It took all of 69 days for them to shoot his ass. Now in your heart, do you really believe that yet another in a long line of 'troubled loners' shot Reagan because of some unfulfilled or desperate crush on a movie actress ? I don't, not for a minute. What is the CIA's business anyway ? CIA contractors (even proteges') Iran 1953 CIA inspired coup. Here Saddam Hussein Here and Thanks for the memories hey Osama Bin Laden Manuel Noriega Oh I forogt...Karzi of Afghanistan $200,000/mon. Shall I go on ? The CIA does...whatever the fuck it wants to do. Now it is run...by the neocons. So, I no longer believe anything our govt. or press tells us and that includes WTC '93, Oklahoma and 9/11 and so much more.

cloudboy -> RE: The Past, It Burns. (7/11/2013 9:13:56 AM)
quote: Will there be another whiny post about getting reported, after yet another instance of turning a conversation about an issue into a discussion of other posters, Cloudboy? It's about the source and lack of original thinking. Ditto-head thinking. Swing and miss on your part. Without Fox News and Drudge, many conservatives might actually lead more contented lives, b/c god knows they are allergic to hard news, facts, and science.

vincentML -> RE: The Past, It Burns. (7/11/2013 9:32:45 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lucylastic quote: ORIGINAL: vincentML quote: It goes beyond a person, it goes beyond a country, its the rampaging need for security that makes all of us the victims..... All of us are victims? What a bunch of whiney crap and hilarious conspiracy weaving! How exactly are any of us a victim of the increased need for national security? Please don't give me the generic "we are being spied upon" through our phone calls and emails. What makes any of us think our emails and phone calls are so damn important to the Feds? The worse we suffer is commercial tracking of our online activity to target us for ads and junk mail. Pardon me for not putting quotation marks around the word victims...[8\|].what i meant by it was to say was the usa is not the only country to be watched by electronic communications. Being a brit ,,living in Canada, im more than aware of it. Please dont put words in my mouth about being spied upon....then berate me for something i didnt say. I could care less what someone might be reading, watching, or collecting. Being aware is not the same as being afraid or even paranoid. Apologies to you if I came across as berating you. The limitations of the written words, or my use of them, and the lack of quotation marks. I agree completely with your last two sentences. I have yet to see anyone make a case of personal harm, however. Otherwise, it seems apparent that the circus of conspiracy clowns is in town.

vincentML -> RE: The Past, It Burns. (7/11/2013 9:40:13 AM)
quote: Shall I go on ? The CIA does...whatever the fuck it wants to do. Now it is run...by the neocons. So, I no longer believe anything our govt. or press tells us and that includes WTC '93, Oklahoma and 9/11 and so much more. Hey, you left out the attack on Ft. Sumter, the assasination of Abe Lincoln, the sinking of the USS Maine, the sinking of the Lusitania, Pearl Harbor, etc . . . all CIA/neocon plots. All LIES, LIES, LIES. [8\|] Actually, the sinking of the Maine probably was a lie right up there with Tonkin Gulf and WMD. But WTC 93, Oklahoma City, and 9/11? Government conspiracies? Puhleezzzz [8\|]

Lucylastic -> RE: The Past, It Burns. (7/11/2013 9:59:23 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: vincentML Apologies to you if I came across as berating you. The limitations of the written words, or my use of them, and the lack of quotation marks. I agree completely with your last two sentences. I have yet to see anyone make a case of personal harm, however. Otherwise, it seems apparent that the circus of conspiracy clowns is in town. Thank you[:)], Im usually pretty careful with quotation marks as a means of pointing out as it were air quotes, but typing on my tablet, I get mistrakes()[;)] I appreciate your response and apologise for being cranky myself:)

Yachtie -> RE: The Past, It Burns. (7/11/2013 10:02:55 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: cloudboy Without Fox News and Drudge, many conservatives might actually lead more contented lives, b/c god knows they are allergic to hard news, facts, and science. Ah, yes, I see. You prefer Huffington Post? MSNBC? [;)] [8D]

Moonhead -> RE: The Past, It Burns. (7/11/2013 10:24:50 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MrRodgers Reagan was still not going to play ball. It took all of 69 days for them to shoot his ass. Now in your heart, do you really believe that yet another in a long line of 'troubled loners' shot Reagan because of some unfulfilled or desperate crush on a movie actress ? I don't, not for a minute. What is the CIA's business anyway ? The CIA's business is evading responsibility and funding itself through illegal operations while hiding behind false fronts. This is why I'm inclined to believe that Hinckley was a lone nut: if the company had been running him, Reagan wouldn't have lived long enough to make it to surgery.

papassion -> RE: The Past, It Burns. (7/11/2013 11:04:21 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: cloudboy quote: Will there be another whiny post about getting reported, after yet another instance of turning a conversation about an issue into a discussion of other posters, Cloudboy? It's about the source and lack of original thinking. Ditto-head thinking. Swing and miss on your part. Without Fox News and Drudge, many conservatives might actually lead more contented lives, b/c god knows they are allergic to hard news, facts, and science. Talk about going against FACTS. The rating services like Arbitron, etc, do research to see what stations people watch, their ages, their INCOMES, etc. This data is used by stations to justify what they charge for advertising. A station with a higher number of viewers and preferably higher INCOMES, can charge more for advertising. (doesn't make sense to advertise expensive stuff on a station that has poor bastards watching it) Guess what! Fox news has more viewers, with higher INCOMES than the competition as documented by the rating services. Since we can safely assume higher INCOME usually goes with higher EDUCATION, its a pretty safe bet it is NOT the Fox viewers who are the dumb SHEEP, allergic to facts, and science.

vincentML -> RE: The Past, It Burns. (7/11/2013 11:10:47 AM)
quote: When needed, the US govt. turns into ruthless killers. The neocons own the FBI/CIA. Obama is playing ball because...HE WANTS TO STAY ALIVE !!! The suggestion that the FBI/CIA are owned by the neocons and that Obama is motivated in his defense of the nation because of personal fear of assassination is an absurd and delusional view arising from not one wit of substantive evidence but from fantastical imagination. Great fodder for comic books but pathetic in reality. Well, in reality just a crock of shit.[:'(]

vincentML -> RE: The Past, It Burns. (7/11/2013 11:12:00 AM)
quote: The CIA's business is evading responsibility and funding itself through illegal operations while hiding behind false fronts. Your evidence for this statement???

Moonhead -> RE: The Past, It Burns. (7/11/2013 11:57:37 AM)
About thirty years worth of publishing about the CIA. Victor Marchetti's memoir is a good place to start, but Paglen and Thompson's Torture Taxi is a lot more contemporary.

MrRodgers -> RE: The Past, It Burns. (7/11/2013 3:33:58 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: vincentML quote: Shall I go on ? The CIA does...whatever the fuck it wants to do. Now it is run...by the neocons. So, I no longer believe anything our govt. or press tells us and that includes WTC '93, Oklahoma and 9/11 and so much more. Hey, you left out the attack on Ft. Sumter, the assasination of Abe Lincoln, the sinking of the USS Maine, the sinking of the Lusitania, Pearl Harbor, etc . . . all CIA/neocon plots. All LIES, LIES, LIES. [8\|] Actually, the sinking of the Maine probably was a lie right up there with Tonkin Gulf and WMD. But WTC 93, Oklahoma City, and 9/11? Government conspiracies? Puhleezzzz [8\|] You said it not me. The Gulf of Tonkin was a lie ? The WMD in Iraq was a lie ? Oh no, please say it ain't so. Plus you look out of touch with my thread when you site occurrences before there was a CIA. The sinking of the Maine ? Let's see, when was that ? The massive obvious cover-up from our govt. I have just about a thousand unanswered questions and don't believe what I've been told. It's obvious...you have none. What I do see is an arrogant $30 billion black hole. So, nobody will ever really know about all of these ops. If you wish to believe the govt., fine. I don't. "Naturally the common people don't want war, neither in Russia, nor in England, nor for that matter in Germany. That is understood. But, after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the peacemakers for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country.” – Goering quote at the Nuremberg Trials

MrRodgers -> RE: The Past, It Burns. (7/11/2013 3:46:26 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: vincentML quote: The CIA's business is evading responsibility and funding itself through illegal operations while hiding behind false fronts. Your evidence for this statement??? Well [it] gets $30 billion of our tax money and while we know the CIA goes in black and comes out black, it has fucked up on occasion and revealed that it tried to do so. In declassified documents, the CIA has been involved in the overthrow of elected govts. Paid for Hussein to take out the Iraqi govt. Paid people to take out the Iranian govt. Paid those people and those like OBL, Noriega, Karzi (scumbag that he is) and a whole host of others to do their...not our bidding.

MrRodgers -> RE: The Past, It Burns. (7/11/2013 3:58:07 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: vincentML quote: When needed, the US govt. turns into ruthless killers. The neocons own the FBI/CIA. Obama is playing ball because...HE WANTS TO STAY ALIVE !!! The suggestion that the FBI/CIA are owned by the neocons and that Obama is motivated in his defense of the nation because of personal fear of assassination is an absurd and delusional view arising from not one wit of substantive evidence but from fantastical imagination. Great fodder for comic books but pathetic in reality. Well, in reality just a crock of shit.[:'(] Obama and almost the whole elitist crew in Wash., all come from the same organizations that meet in secret, i.e., Bilderberg and CFR. Meeting with them and joining in effecting their policies has produced the world we have now. As for motivation in the defense of the nation, for W, did that include defending NY City and the Pentagon ? Did that include the Oklahoma bombing ? Did that include outing a CIA field agent in retaliation for a brave disclosure of the yellow cake lie ?

MrRodgers -> RE: The Past, It Burns. (7/11/2013 4:05:15 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: papassion quote: ORIGINAL: cloudboy quote: Will there be another whiny post about getting reported, after yet another instance of turning a conversation about an issue into a discussion of other posters, Cloudboy? It's about the source and lack of original thinking. Ditto-head thinking. Swing and miss on your part. Without Fox News and Drudge, many conservatives might actually lead more contented lives, b/c god knows they are allergic to hard news, facts, and science. Talk about going against FACTS. The rating services like Arbitron, etc, do research to see what stations people watch, their ages, their INCOMES, etc. This data is used by stations to justify what they charge for advertising. A station with a higher number of viewers and preferably higher INCOMES, can charge more for advertising. (doesn't make sense to advertise expensive stuff on a station that has poor bastards watching it) Guess what! Fox news has more viewers, with higher INCOMES than the competition as documented by the rating services. Since we can safely assume higher INCOME usually goes with higher EDUCATION, its a pretty safe bet it is NOT the Fox viewers who are the dumb SHEEP, allergic to facts, and science. Their ages yes, 18-54. Not their incomes or educational levels thereby. They have little or no idea. That would mean the richest smartest people are all listening to Howard Stern, or watching Oprah and Martha, if you go by the numbers. Therefor, you cannot safely assume anything of the kind.

vincentML -> RE: The Past, It Burns. (7/12/2013 8:45:49 AM)
quote: Obama and almost the whole elitist crew in Wash., all come from the same organizations that meet in secret, i.e., Bilderberg and CFR. Meeting with them and joining in effecting their policies has produced the world we have now. Noooo . . . not secret organizations. Spare us these wingnut conspiracies please. National policies are the result of political conflict . . . campaigns and elections, opposing interests. Please provide any evidence you have that secret societies have produced the world we have now.

cloudboy -> RE: The Past, It Burns. (7/12/2013 8:45:58 AM)
Reading original sources with original reporting generally is the way to go -- or you have to trust the editorial judgment of someone else who does that for you.

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