RE: Is the prosecution a bunch of slimeballs?

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[Poll]

Is the prosecution a bunch of slimeballs?

Yes.

29% (7)

Yes, but Trayvon "would be like my son" like Obama said earlier

8% (2)

Yes, but hey, they had to do something and I would too.

8% (2)

No.

54% (13)

Total Votes : 24

(last vote on : 7/12/2013 6:25:21 PM)
(Poll will run till: -- )

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RE: Is the prosecution a bunch of slimeballs? - 7/11/2013 3:37:02 PM

mnottertail

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Then maybe the trickle down comes into play.........just one more iffy deal.

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RE: Is the prosecution a bunch of slimeballs? - 7/11/2013 3:38:43 PM

Subtlycaptivated

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In this, I think you are definitely wrong.

The state does not have unlimited resources. Each county is on it's own in terms of what it can and can not do with a prosecution and each prosecutors office is over burdened with everything from bullshit traffic cases to capital murder cases. They only have so many people.

What a lovely idea you have of how it works though. If only that were true.

The fact is, the prosecutor is the voice of the people demanding justice, and ethically, they are required by each state bar to work the case to a degree that would be reflective of the people's expectations for the outcome and carriage of justice. They can not fall short. And in some cases, they do, and guilty people get away.

While you may have a law degree, I can grant that you are not the end all be all of what legality and the ethical responsibility of an attorney on any level is.

The defense has to zealously defend, yes, but do you think that ethical obligation to zeal is only extended to the defense? Do they pull you aside when you take the bar and line them up defense to the right and prosecution to the left?

No. Not at all. The ethics set aside by the ABA are extended to ALL attorneys no matter what side of the fence they are on.

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RE: Is the prosecution a bunch of slimeballs? - 7/11/2013 3:40:49 PM

Subtlycaptivated

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And Really? You are going to link me to a long haired hippie on a motorcycle and a fat guy with a handlebar mustache and tell me to use them as reference points in an academic paper?

I must have offended you with my DeVry statement.

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RE: Is the prosecution a bunch of slimeballs? - 7/11/2013 3:41:18 PM

mnottertail

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Powergamz1

Nope. Zealous as in win at any cost short of outright chicanery, is reserved for the side with less power. The prosecution is sworn to seek justice, not wins (On paper).
The state has billions in assets to throw into any given case, most defendants don't. Again, this is bedrock, basic civics, intro to CJ, un-spinnable stuff.

Read the links, you might be able to use them in a paper some day.

http://academia.edu/1515309/Zealous_Advocates_The_Historical_Foundations_of_the_Adversarial_Criminal_Defence_Lawyer
http://www.bertrandlaw.com/newsletters/criminal-law/the-duties-of-a-defense-attorney-at-a-glance/
https://litigation-essentials.lexisnexis.com/webcd/app?action=DocumentDisplay&crawlid=1&doctype=cite&docid=30+Loy.+L.A.+L.+Rev.+21&srctype=smi&srcid=3B15&key=7c0e32fee8a6b10420fc2ddca257f33e
http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/in-defense-of-criminal-defense-attorneys-2/

Yeah, I wouldn't bother with that rubbish since it does not in any wise buttress the untutored point that prosecutors shouldn't go all out for a conviction, nor is any citation given that would even run that way. They are 'defense' partisan articles that give reasoning why all out defenses for even the most indefensible clients need to be undertaken (as lawyer opinions only, no raft of citations there).

Hell there isn't even an obiter dictum along those foolish lines I am aware of.

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RE: Is the prosecution a bunch of slimeballs? - 7/11/2013 3:42:50 PM

Powergamz1

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You claimed that the link I gave to Mr. Bennet's article was a product of a shithouse degree.

But since you can't have a discussion without making it about the poster, yes, I have an advanced degree in the discipline, and decades of successful experience. So do thousands upon thousands of other people in the field who agree on the same obvious precepts.

That's why it only takes me a second to see though your piles of nonsense and call bullshit on it.. and why I can go straight to the facts proving you wrong, over and over. Just as other posters here have done countless times.

That's also why I don't need to label reality as 'asswipe' or anything else... I'm not the one in denial of it.

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

quote:

ORIGINAL: Powergamz1

Yes, you use 'asswipe' a lot, in the context of anyone who actually has an advanced degree, or a professional license in law, medicine, science, etc, and who states reality as it disagrees with your favorite tinfoil hat conspiracy theories.

You've gone to that well too many times.

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

quote:

ORIGINAL: Powergamz1

They weren't responding to you, they were saying that the law professor in the article I linked to had a shithouse degree and didn't know anything.

Take it at face value.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Subtlycaptivated

=(

I said I was an undergrad and I may be wrong.

No, that isn't what the poster was replying to, the actual lawyer, but he could have, as usual it is fanciful asswipe being projected by the untutored.

Well substitute bullshit, codswallow, pettifoggery, horseshit or any word you care to at your leisure. Advanced degree? really, you have one? It doesn't show. Does mine?

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RE: Is the prosecution a bunch of slimeballs? - 7/11/2013 3:42:55 PM

Subtlycaptivated

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Nope. Im a girl. But, it's okay. I appreciate that it wasn't to me. I was trying to get a laugh really.

I saw the reply.
;)

You and powergamez seem to be good pals. lol.

I can see why...he's been reading how to win friends and influence people again, hasn't he?

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

quote:

ORIGINAL: Subtlycaptivated

=(

I said I was an undergrad and I may be wrong.

My post was to Powergamz1 and is reflected in the in the reply to box.

You are doing fine, undergraduate (say; your name isn't little benjamin braddock is it?)

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RE: Is the prosecution a bunch of slimeballs? - 7/11/2013 3:44:11 PM

mnottertail

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I believe that Powergamz1 is an ex-cop. So careful about 'law degree', criminal justice or some such as that if I recall correctly. If I don't you will hear it.

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RE: Is the prosecution a bunch of slimeballs? - 7/11/2013 3:45:47 PM

mnottertail

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quote:

You claimed that the link I gave to Mr. Bennet's article was a product of a shithouse degree.

The fuck I did. Cite it and parse the goddamn sentence in context, it's third grade reading level, so not to far out of your reach, with a modicum of effort, shithouse lawyer.

< Message edited by mnottertail -- 7/11/2013 3:47:39 PM >

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RE: Is the prosecution a bunch of slimeballs? - 7/11/2013 3:49:35 PM

mnottertail

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Subtlycaptivated

Nope. Im a girl. But, it's okay. I appreciate that it wasn't to me. I was trying to get a laugh really.

My mistake, I would have called you a skirt and a briefcase, instead of a necktie and voicebox, had I known that prior to my comment.

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RE: Is the prosecution a bunch of slimeballs? - 7/11/2013 3:50:29 PM

Powergamz1

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Oh No!!!! An undergrad who has learned how to make a strawman, and troll on teh interwebzz.

I suppose I should be terrified, and run out of my office in shame before I'm deleveled by the long hairedness of the person writing the citation.

No, I guess I'd better call all the attorneys and judges and other professors in America and let them know how wrong they've been all this time.

So.... How much will you be charging in tuition to set the whole CJ system straight? Will your classes be on line? Will there be homework? Will you post all the exams right away?

Step up your game.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Subtlycaptivated

In this, I think you are definitely wrong.

The state does not have unlimited resources. Each county is on it's own in terms of what it can and can not do with a prosecution and each prosecutors office is over burdened with everything from bullshit traffic cases to capital murder cases. They only have so many people.

What a lovely idea you have of how it works though. If only that were true.

The fact is, the prosecutor is the voice of the people demanding justice, and ethically, they are required by each state bar to work the case to a degree that would be reflective of the people's expectations for the outcome and carriage of justice. They can not fall short. And in some cases, they do, and guilty people get away.

While you may have a law degree, I can grant that you are not the end all be all of what legality and the ethical responsibility of an attorney on any level is.

The defense has to zealously defend, yes, but do you think that ethical obligation to zeal is only extended to the defense? Do they pull you aside when you take the bar and line them up defense to the right and prosecution to the left?

No. Not at all. The ethics set aside by the ABA are extended to ALL attorneys no matter what side of the fence they are on.

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RE: Is the prosecution a bunch of slimeballs? - 7/11/2013 3:52:23 PM

mnottertail

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Ohhhhhhhhhhhh, your bellyflopping is fuckin spectacular.....LOL.

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RE: Is the prosecution a bunch of slimeballs? - 7/11/2013 3:52:54 PM

Subtlycaptivated

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Cops are trained to enforce the law, not know and understand it.

Which...to a marginal degree would be reflected by the comments to the different points being made here and the vast attempt to over throw the thread with A-typical comments about alleged guilt and presumed innocence.

Silly really.

The fact is, there is a great deal that can be taken from this case down to what is utilized in terms of circumstantial evidence, as there were phone calls to let friends and family know that he was being followed and even in terms of a physical altercation between the two, which would quantify abuse....and yes, even the caregiver argument, if it had been given accordingly could be used later in case law and foundation for argument.

But the kicker is the idea that prosecutors do not have to provide any level of zeal in their work and that they should (this is implied) dumb themselves down to level the playing field in terms of their "unlimited resources", which we all know is not the case. Most prosecutors offices are over loaded with crap cases and barely have time to breathe. They aren't getting paid, but neither are pro bono attorneys and they are held to the same level of ethical zeal when they work a case.

I just don't understand how someone claiming to have an advanced degree could over look the primary points of what the science of law is about. Bu then, I don't even understand why they call it a science when science is stead fast and law changes every day with a new case. That's just my opinion though.

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RE: Is the prosecution a bunch of slimeballs? - 7/11/2013 3:53:45 PM

DomKen

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I'm impressed that a right winger has noticed that a prosecutor isn't very nice. Although I do have to ask why is this a surprise to anyone?

We've had prosecutors argue that two men did the exact same crime.
http://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/Court-says-two-can-be-tried-for-one-crime-2508101.php

A prosecutor once claimed a supposed dream supposedly related to a sheriff's deputy proved a man committed murder
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rolando_Cruz_case

Maybe the major national newspaper with the conservative editorial board running a Pulitzer award winning series on widespread prosecutorial misconduct might have done it.
http://www.veritasinitiative.org/our-work/prosecutorial-misconduct/pm-preventable-error-a-report-on-prosecutorial-misconduct-in-california/

< Message edited by DomKen -- 7/11/2013 3:54:15 PM >

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RE: Is the prosecution a bunch of slimeballs? - 7/11/2013 3:54:58 PM

Powergamz1

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Well let's just leave it at the usual request for you to provide a single shred of proof that all the links I cited debunking you are wrong

As always, won't be holding my breath.

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

Ohhhhhhhhhhhh, your bellyflopping is fuckin spectacular.....LOL.

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RE: Is the prosecution a bunch of slimeballs? - 7/11/2013 3:56:20 PM

Subtlycaptivated

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Darling,

your slip is showing.

You attack mnottertail for insults, yet, here you go...

How quaint.

At the end of the day, you have made no valid arguments to anything that I have said, you have posted bs links to back what few arguments you have made, and you have no citations to back your argument that prosecutors have no ethical obligation to zealous representation, which is blatantly false and absolutely ignorant.

But, please, if it makes you feel better, go right on and sling what insults you have. I don't even care.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Powergamz1

Oh No!!!! An undergrad who has learned how to make a strawman, and troll on teh interwebzz.

I suppose I should be terrified, and run out of my office in shame before I'm deleveled by the long hairedness of the person writing the citation.

No, I guess I'd better call all the attorneys and judges and other professors in America and let them know how wrong they've been all this time.

So.... How much will you be charging in tuition to set the whole CJ system straight? Will your classes be on line? Will there be homework? Will you post all the exams right away?

Step up your game.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Subtlycaptivated

In this, I think you are definitely wrong.

The state does not have unlimited resources. Each county is on it's own in terms of what it can and can not do with a prosecution and each prosecutors office is over burdened with everything from bullshit traffic cases to capital murder cases. They only have so many people.

What a lovely idea you have of how it works though. If only that were true.

The fact is, the prosecutor is the voice of the people demanding justice, and ethically, they are required by each state bar to work the case to a degree that would be reflective of the people's expectations for the outcome and carriage of justice. They can not fall short. And in some cases, they do, and guilty people get away.

While you may have a law degree, I can grant that you are not the end all be all of what legality and the ethical responsibility of an attorney on any level is.

The defense has to zealously defend, yes, but do you think that ethical obligation to zeal is only extended to the defense? Do they pull you aside when you take the bar and line them up defense to the right and prosecution to the left?

No. Not at all. The ethics set aside by the ABA are extended to ALL attorneys no matter what side of the fence they are on.

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RE: Is the prosecution a bunch of slimeballs? - 7/11/2013 3:58:10 PM

Subtlycaptivated

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Quite fine. And no problem at all. All is well. The Legal field is predominated by men, if my studies are correct.

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

quote:

ORIGINAL: Subtlycaptivated

Nope. Im a girl. But, it's okay. I appreciate that it wasn't to me. I was trying to get a laugh really.

My mistake, I would have called you a skirt and a briefcase, instead of a necktie and voicebox, had I known that prior to my comment.

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RE: Is the prosecution a bunch of slimeballs? - 7/11/2013 4:04:03 PM

Subtlycaptivated

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Powergamz1

The defense is paid (and takes an oath) to be zealous... the prosecutors aren't supposed to.

Since prosecutors are often elected career politicians, why would we expect them to be any more effective, honest, or useful than say, Congress?

This is you. Not me.

I have been stating plainly all along that prosecutors have to be zealous in their representation, just as much as the defense.

I am going on to your next post about the resources and how they have to "level the playing field?" I believe it was

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RE: Is the prosecution a bunch of slimeballs? - 7/11/2013 4:06:26 PM

Subtlycaptivated

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Powergamz1

Nope. Zealous as in win at any cost short of outright chicanery, is reserved for the side with less power. The prosecution is sworn to seek justice, not wins (On paper).
The state has billions in assets to throw into any given case, most defendants don't. Again, this is bedrock, basic civics, intro to CJ, un-spinnable stuff.

Ahem. Perhaps you need to spend sometime with Websters and understand that zealousness in representation means that you will exhaust every and all effort to make sure that the client, in the states case the people of the state, is represented to the max. Meaning, no pulling bull shit child abuse charges because you are losing your ass to a defense that tells knock knock jokes.

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RE: Is the prosecution a bunch of slimeballs? - 7/11/2013 4:18:24 PM

Powergamz1

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Interesting stereo recording.

Of course articles on the fact that defense attorneys have a duty to give a zealous defense, are going to address the duty of defense attorneys to give a zealous defense.

And of course the prosecutor's oath of office is going to charge a duty to justice, not zealousness.

That's the point you've been declaring aswwipe all along, and are now suddenly pretending you came up with.

None of these games are working, just this once let reality go its way, and you go yours.

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

But I examined the insidethebeltwayblog citation, and it was pure non-sequitur, as were the others I examined, they only talked about a vigorous defense for defense attorneys and did not address the prosecution, neither in case law, precedent or ratio descideri

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RE: Is the prosecution a bunch of slimeballs? - 7/11/2013 5:22:57 PM

tazzygirl

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Someone point out to me where it says it has to be a caregiver who commits the 3rd degree?

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