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Is submission humiliating? - 6/27/2006 8:18:18 PM   
TeeGO


Posts: 451
Joined: 12/11/2005
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There is something inherent in a male submitting to a female that screams the male is humiliating himself in doing so. At least that is the way society view things. Yet, I do feel that myself. I feel that submitting to a female is a humiliating act. 

That has troubled me until I thought that submission itself is an act of humiliation, whether it’s male to Female, or female to Male, or otherwise. The humbling of oneself to be controlled by another. I guess that is humiliation.

This erotic humilation is, I believe, the foundation for my submission.  For whatever reason I get a thrill from it. 

What I'd like to know is if this thinking is solid or am I missing something?

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RE: Is submission humiliating? - 6/27/2006 8:29:58 PM   
SusanofO


Posts: 5672
Joined: 12/19/2005
Status: offline 		Some people like being humiliated (me, for instance). I haven't analyzed it all that much. Seriously, to me, there is nothing humiliating about submitting  - it feels totally natural. It makes me feel necessary (and protected; can't get enough of feeling protected I guess). So what if you're a guy? If you love it, you love it.  Go for it.

- Susan 

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 6/27/2006 8:32:47 PM >

_____________________________

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That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

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RE: Is submission humiliating? - 6/27/2006 8:30:24 PM   
zenofeller


Posts: 463
Joined: 6/10/2006
Status: offline 		i wouldn't say female submitting to male is socially humiliating, because historical accident has it that society agreed for most of it's history that is the proper place for any female. there are women still alive today that have in fact raised up with those ideas.

humiliation is a very difficult thing to talk about, because it's extremely ill defined. the common easy solution is to say each his own. as such, your thinking can not be but solid, as far as you limit it to yourself.

many people would agree with you, saying that humiliation is the foundation of their submission.

but you are probably missing something anyway.

(in reply to TeeGO)
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RE: Is submission humiliating? - 6/27/2006 8:33:45 PM   
Caretakr


Posts: 1221
Joined: 6/24/2006
Status: offline 		I know about this.

Humiliation as an excitement, is based on breaking societal condtioning. It sets one apart from the mainstream, thumbs a nose in the direction of stereotypes, and the politically correct.

It's freedom.

< Message edited by Caretakr -- 6/27/2006 8:34:35 PM >

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RE: Is submission humiliating? - 6/27/2006 8:44:34 PM   
CrappyDom


Posts: 1883
Joined: 4/11/2006
From: Sacramento
Status: offline 		Teego,

While I have never taken a male submissive I have known quite a few.  The forms their submission take are highly varied.  Some are stoic, some bratty, some submit from a place of strength, others from a place of humiliation.

You aren't missing anything, but there is much to see, much to explore, but the most interesting journey is into yourself.  Enjoy.

(in reply to Caretakr)
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RE: Is submission humiliating? - 6/27/2006 8:47:33 PM   
enigmabrat


Posts: 2383
Joined: 8/1/2004
Status: offline 		No submition itself is not humiliateing... it is beautifull and wonderfull not humiliating

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Leather strap $85.00 on Master card
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ratten cane $48.00 on Master card

a Master that can use them all Priceless

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RE: Is submission humiliating? - 6/27/2006 8:49:28 PM   
Wulfchyld


Posts: 2618
Joined: 12/7/2005
Status: offline 		TeeGo I would have to say it all depends on where it hits you. I would think some, like Celeste, find great power and reward in submission. benji is very high spirited about his submissive side and wears it like a badge of honor. So again I think it depends on how it hits you.

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Loki, forum god of Mischief

Submission is not a gift... it is plunder!
Where there is a whip, there is a way!
Dom/mes of a feather, beat the f*ck out of slaves together


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RE: Is submission humiliating? - 6/27/2006 11:34:54 PM   
champagnewishes


Posts: 1310
Joined: 10/31/2005
From: Orange County
Status: offline 		I am sure that for some subs, this is a form of humiliation and will thrive as such.

For me personally, submission has nothing to do with humiliation.  Never has submission lowered my self esteem.  Just the opposite...it completes me...makes me stronger from the inside out.

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Nirvana cannot be described, it is only understood truly by a person who has experienced it.


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RE: Is submission humiliating? - 6/28/2006 12:20:06 AM   
DoctorDubious


Posts: 267
Joined: 6/24/2006
Status: offline 		Sure, some folks get their jollies from humiliation....
and I say... (warning, joke ahead)...

"Less power to 'em".

But, are submission and humiliation necessarily linked.... ?

For me, they are not.
Submission is an ancient spiritual path,
common in all cultures...

My goodness,
the second largest religion in the world
is called Islam.

Islam means submission.

DD

< Message edited by DoctorDubious -- 6/28/2006 12:21:06 AM >

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RE: Is submission humiliating? - 6/28/2006 12:28:34 AM   
Caretakr


Posts: 1221
Joined: 6/24/2006
Status: offline 		Domination and submision are present in various degrees in us all.  They only become more noticable when we move towards the ends of the continuums.

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RE: Is submission humiliating? - 6/28/2006 12:33:38 AM   
MadameDahlia


Posts: 2021
Joined: 8/11/2004
From: SoCal aka Hell
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TeeGO


There is something inherent in a male submitting to a female that screams the male is humiliating himself in doing so. At least that is the way society view things. Yet, I do feel that myself. I feel that submitting to a female is a humiliating act. 

That has troubled me until I thought that submission itself is an act of humiliation, whether it’s male to Female, or female to Male, or otherwise. The humbling of oneself to be controlled by another. I guess that is humiliation.

This erotic humilation is, I believe, the foundation for my submission.  For whatever reason I get a thrill from it. 

What I'd like to know is if this thinking is solid or am I missing something?


Being humiliated or showing humility? Perhaps both, given the right circumstances...

If you've still got the emails we swapped about a month back you already know the way I view the dynamic. But for those who don't...

He submits to his Lady (Queen, Princess, etc.) not because he is forced... but because it is in him to show how much he longs to cherish her and how deeply he desires to honor his Lady in both word and deed...

While it may not be true for all relationships with an F/m dynamic... it's but one way of looking at what may seem to be to others as peculiar or a socially unacceptable imbalance of power.



_____________________________

Insanity -- a perfectly rational adjustment to an insane world.
--R. D. Laing

"Oh, but if I went 'round sayin' I was Emperor, just because some moistened bint lobbed a scimitar at me, they'd put me away."

(in reply to TeeGO)
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RE: Is submission humiliating? - 6/28/2006 12:42:28 AM   
Caretakr


Posts: 1221
Joined: 6/24/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MadameDahlia

quote:

ORIGINAL: TeeGO


There is something inherent in a male submitting to a female that screams the male is humiliating himself in doing so. At least that is the way society view things. Yet, I do feel that myself. I feel that submitting to a female is a humiliating act. 

That has troubled me until I thought that submission itself is an act of humiliation, whether it’s male to Female, or female to Male, or otherwise. The humbling of oneself to be controlled by another. I guess that is humiliation.

This erotic humilation is, I believe, the foundation for my submission.  For whatever reason I get a thrill from it. 

What I'd like to know is if this thinking is solid or am I missing something?


Being humiliated or showing humility? Perhaps both, given the right circumstances...

If you've still got the emails we swapped about a month back you already know the way I view the dynamic. But for those who don't...

He submits to his Lady (Queen, Princess, etc.) not because he is forced... but because it is in him to show how much he longs to cherish her and how deeply he desires to honor his Lady in both word and deed...

While it may not be true for all relationships with an F/m dynamic... it's but one way of looking at what may seem to be to others as peculiar or a socially unacceptable imbalance of power.




We are worlds apart from the world. And the realities that we create within our spheres are as valid as any other.

(in reply to MadameDahlia)
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RE: Is submission humiliating? - 6/28/2006 12:47:29 AM   
onyurknees


Posts: 26
Joined: 7/10/2005
Status: offline 		TeeGO,
IMO, submission comes from a place of strength that permits the submittor to give it all up because his (or her) inner core is so solid. If it feels humiliating - and there is no doubt that our societies on earth for the most part have viewed a male submitting to a Female as a humiliation - then you simply have to ask whether that feels right for you or not.
I believe that if it does, then society can go hang and you should revel in your 'humiliating' submission. Submission or humiliation (humbliing) are only negatives if they ultimately make us feel negative about ourselves.
If they give us thrills, a sense of completion or wholeness, then rock on and enjoy every brilliantly humiliating moment.
After all, no man is more a man, a whole and delightful being, than when he is at (or under) the foot of a Woman... or so it feels to Me... but I might be a tad prejudiced in that matter...
Lynn

(in reply to TeeGO)
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RE: Is submission humiliating? - 6/28/2006 12:51:42 AM   
MadameDahlia


Posts: 2021
Joined: 8/11/2004
From: SoCal aka Hell
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Caretakr

We are worlds apart from the world. And the realities that we create within our spheres are as valid as any other.


*Grins*

My reality tends to change on a daily basis... and also sometimes varies depending on how much sugar I've had.

Hurray for sugar!

_____________________________

Insanity -- a perfectly rational adjustment to an insane world.
--R. D. Laing

"Oh, but if I went 'round sayin' I was Emperor, just because some moistened bint lobbed a scimitar at me, they'd put me away."

(in reply to Caretakr)
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RE: Is submission humiliating? - 6/28/2006 1:08:22 AM   
Lordandmaster


Posts: 10943
Joined: 6/22/2004
Status: offline 		If it works for you, that's really all that matters.

quote:

ORIGINAL: TeeGO

What I'd like to know is if this thinking is solid or am I missing something?

(in reply to TeeGO)
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RE: Is submission humiliating? - 6/28/2006 1:15:43 AM   
Caretakr


Posts: 1221
Joined: 6/24/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MadameDahlia

quote:

ORIGINAL: Caretakr

We are worlds apart from the world. And the realities that we create within our spheres are as valid as any other.

*Grins*

My reality tends to change on a daily basis... and also sometimes varies depending on how much sugar I've had.

Hurray for sugar!


And let's not forget caffiene,wheeeeee!!!!!!!

< Message edited by Caretakr -- 6/28/2006 1:47:46 AM >

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RE: Is submission humiliating? - 6/28/2006 1:41:26 AM   
meatcleaver


Posts: 9030
Joined: 3/13/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: zenofeller

i wouldn't say female submitting to male is socially humiliating, because historical accident has it that society agreed for most of it's history that is the proper place for any female. there are women still alive today that have in fact raised up with those ideas.



Society agreed nothing and nor was it an accident (it can't be both anyway). Society whether for economic and social reasons or for genetic reasons (who really knows) developed that way. We now live in a modern technological society were the division of labour along the line of the sexes is no longer necessary for the most part.

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RE: Is submission humiliating? - 6/28/2006 2:08:17 AM   
darkinshadows


Posts: 4145
Joined: 6/2/2004
From: UK
Status: offline
No it isnt humiliating - unless you want it to be.  If it suits you - go with it.  But submission isn't humiliating from everyone.  And sometimes - it is on only specific occassions.
Everyone views it differently.
 
Peace and Rapture


_____________________________
.dark.



...i surrender to gravity and the unknown...

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RE: Is submission humiliating? - 6/28/2006 2:27:56 AM   
RavenMuse


Posts: 4030
Joined: 1/23/2006
Status: offline 		I can't speak for male to Female submission but I've delt with enough girls over the last 25 years that I can say with certanty that female to Male submission in the main has nothing to do in the slightest with humiliation. For most of My girls it has been a natural and even freeing/liberating experience. Given them a sense of security and safety in being who they are rather than being what society tells them they should be. Several have said quite the opposite, that when forced into vanilla settings and expected to be an equal to someone they have started caring about, THAT feels humiliating to them. Forced to sit there uncomfortably and accept him 'serving' her when every part of her nature wants to serve him.

(Not the same as when a Master 'decides' to do something for his girl... the diffrent dynamic and reasons take away the discomfort and allows even passive submission!)


_____________________________

This above all: to thine own self be true,
And it must follow, as the night the day,
Thou canst not then be false to any man.

Owner of metalmiss

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RE: Is submission humiliating? - 6/28/2006 2:48:37 AM   
irishbynature


Posts: 551
Joined: 5/11/2006
Status: offline 		If that element of submission is what thrills you then I think you're on the path of still learning and understanding your own limits. Humiliation isn't my path or thrill but it certainly shouldn't lessen your experience (smiles). To each his/her own...enjoy the discovery Irish

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What seems nasty, painful, or evil, can become a source of beauty, joy, and strength, for those who have the vision to recognize it as such. Henry Miller


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