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RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN - 7/13/2013 4:55:12 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
Martin, according to his GF instigated the confrontation.

Nobody thinks her testimony is worth a shit about anything else, so why is she seen as a credible witness on that one?

I didn't but she and Zimmerman are what we have to work with.
Unless they got together and cooked something up Martin must have come up to Zimmerman Started the conversation and then the thumping began as Zimmerman answered.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to Moonhead)
Profile   Post #: 581
RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN - 7/13/2013 4:55:18 PM   
Politesub53


Posts: 14862
Joined: 5/7/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi

Over here it is used to reference white supremists. Funny how different words can mean different things all over the world.



Funny indeed. Skinheads are not all white, even in the States, what say you ?

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=hispanic+skinheads&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-GB:official&client=firefox-a&um=1&ie=UTF-8&hl=en&tbm=isch&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi&ei=lujhUYPREqP20gWj3oGIDA&biw=1273&bih=642&sei=oujhUZmJLq-X0AWWxYGIBA

(in reply to thishereboi)
Profile   Post #: 582
RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN - 7/13/2013 4:57:31 PM   
tj444


Posts: 7574
Joined: 3/7/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterCaneman

And how long do you think she's gonna stick around if he does walk? Probably only long enough to get a cut of the book/movie deals and pfft! she's gone...

honestly? I dont think she is smart enough to walk.. she lied under oath and was charged with perjury about the money, after all.. cripes, if she had any brains she never would have testified, instead she would have cleaned out the paypal account while Zimmy was in jail and immediately taken a long vacay to Europe or somewhere and left him to rot in the can..

_____________________________

As Anderson Cooper said “If he (Trump) took a dump on his desk, you would defend it”

(in reply to MasterCaneman)
Profile   Post #: 583
RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN - 7/13/2013 5:05:20 PM   
Politesub53


Posts: 14862
Joined: 5/7/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

Prior to your assumptions of safety in the house, the few seconds and all that horseshit? Or where do you want to crank it to? Prior to Zimmerman stalking him, when Trayvon was on his way home minding his own business? Or where do you want to crank the assumptions back to?

Zimmerman had lost sight of Trayvon. End of story. Home free.

K.



Fucking laughable since we all know the real ending.

(in reply to Kirata)
Profile   Post #: 584
RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN - 7/13/2013 5:06:55 PM   
tj444


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quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

Zimmerman's life will suck in any event, guilty or acquitted. He will be a target in jail or out. His lawyer O'Mara said there are a lot of crazies out there who know what he looks like and who are anonymous to him. He will not be able to get a job or travel in public. Maybe back to Peru or wherever. Better out than in jail but he will have to go into hiding for sure.

I dunno.. OJ seemed to be able to find friends, girlfriends, he had his kids & family and I doubt he was on assistance or anything like that.. OJ's mistake after getting out was the break-in, burglary, etc.. if it had not been for that, he would still be out and living his life in the sunshine.. even tho his ex and her friend were killed at his hand (imo)..

_____________________________

As Anderson Cooper said “If he (Trump) took a dump on his desk, you would defend it”

(in reply to vincentML)
Profile   Post #: 585
RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN - 7/13/2013 5:10:27 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

BTW one more time a couple of very minor injuries does not justify shooting anyone.

BTW one more time a fear of greater injury does justify deadly force.
You do not have to wait until you are dead or crippled to defend your self.



No. Fear of greater injury does not make it. It has to be a reasonable fear of imminent great bodily harm and that clearly did not exist. That's why Zimmerman made up the lie about Martin trying to take his gun.

So you admit that actual injuries are not relevant.

Of course they're relevant. they prove that Zimmerman did not have an imminent fear of death or great bodily harm from Martin's physical assault. That is why he had to make up the lie about Martin going for his gun.

Get back to me when one of your personalities wins this argument.

So you are reduced to snark? Why not just admit you're wrong?

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 586
RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN - 7/13/2013 5:17:35 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

BTW one more time a couple of very minor injuries does not justify shooting anyone.

BTW one more time a fear of greater injury does justify deadly force.
You do not have to wait until you are dead or crippled to defend your self.



No. Fear of greater injury does not make it. It has to be a reasonable fear of imminent great bodily harm and that clearly did not exist. That's why Zimmerman made up the lie about Martin trying to take his gun.

So you admit that actual injuries are not relevant.

Of course they're relevant. they prove that Zimmerman did not have an imminent fear of death or great bodily harm from Martin's physical assault. That is why he had to make up the lie about Martin going for his gun.

Get back to me when one of your personalities wins this argument.

So you are reduced to snark? Why not just admit you're wrong?

You are arguing with yourself first you say it's the degree of injury.
Then you say it's "reasonable fear"
Then you say it's the degree of injury that determines "reasonable fear".
To paraphrase Napoleon when your opponents are beating themselves don't interrupt.
You are destroying your own arguments I don't need to do anything but laugh.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 587
RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN - 7/13/2013 5:28:00 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

You are arguing with yourself first you say it's the degree of injury.
Then you say it's "reasonable fear"
Then you say it's the degree of injury that determines "reasonable fear".
To paraphrase Napoleon when your opponents are beating themselves don't interrupt.
You are destroying your own arguments I don't need to do anything but laugh.

Are you being intentionally dense?

We have very little actual evidence. The only actual evidence to the amount and intensity of violence Zimmerman experienced is his injuries. Those injuries were insignificant. Therefore it is unreasonable to believe he was in a reasonable fear of imminent death or great bodily harm from Martin's physical attack. We also know that his testimony on the position of Martin means the "struggle for the gun" tale is a lie.

So I do not see how anyone can believe Zimmerman can sustain the self defense claim.

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 588
RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN - 7/13/2013 5:29:32 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		You, my dear, Bita, are an evil, wicked woman.



_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to BitaTruble)
Profile   Post #: 589
RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN - 7/13/2013 5:50:01 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline 		Are you being intentionally dense?


Actual injuries are not relevant.
Reasonable fear of injury is the ONLY criteria.
With your head being banged on the surface you will fear it is the pavement you know is close to you.
Or that the next time will be.
You would have to be in reasonable fear unless you really believe that your assailant doesn't want to hurt you and will be careful to see that this does not happen.
Unless of course you have the ability to read Zimmerman's mind.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 590
RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN - 7/13/2013 5:54:23 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:

Actual injuries are not relevant.


We know, since we keep hearing about scratches on one man when there is a gaping gun shot wound in the other.

quote:

Reasonable fear of injury is the ONLY criteria.


And T's reasonable fear has been repeatedly ignored.

quote:

With your head being banged on the surface you will fear it is the pavement you know is close to you.


Yes, we went from T's undiscussed fear, to Z's "immense" fear, to Z's scratches, to T's gaping gun shot wound.

quote:

You would have to be in reasonable fear unless you really believe that your assailant doesn't want to hurt you and will be careful to see that this does not happen.


T had reasonable fear. Unless, of course, you can read his mind.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 591
RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN - 7/13/2013 5:58:27 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

Actual injuries are not relevant.


We know, since we keep hearing about scratches on one man when there is a gaping gun shot wound in the other.

quote:

Reasonable fear of injury is the ONLY criteria.


And T's reasonable fear has been repeatedly ignored.

quote:

With your head being banged on the surface you will fear it is the pavement you know is close to you.


Yes, we went from T's undiscussed fear, to Z's "immense" fear, to Z's scratches, to T's gaping gun shot wound.

quote:

You would have to be in reasonable fear unless you really believe that your assailant doesn't want to hurt you and will be careful to see that this does not happen.


T had reasonable fear. Unless, of course, you can read his mind.

Very good you are throwing this at one of the few people on here who has contended that Martin may well have had a reasonable fear and that were it he on trial I would be defending him.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 592
RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN - 7/13/2013 6:34:48 PM   
Edwynn


Posts: 4105
Joined: 10/26/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterCaneman

You've got your knickers in a twist ...


I do? And, you know that I'm actually wearing knickers, just how?

OK, let's not go there.



quote:

If Obama hadn't said anything, this would be relegated to the local section of the paper.


Ha! Thanks for reminding.

I forgot that Obama was one of seemingly innumerous gateways to Zimmerman's escape from accountability, whatever the verdict.


quote:


I doubt you and all the other chest-beaters honestly give two wet shits about the kid-hell, I bet if you saw him strolling down your street, what are the chances you'd check your doors?


I wasn't beating my chest, and if I were still a teenager, you would be seriously disturbing me with such comment.

In any case, I live in the South, and anyone who lives here (in any of the larger cities therein) sees hundreds of black people of all ages 'strolling down the street' on a daily basis. Just because the prospect of even one black person strolling down the street would make you check your doors, that does not equate to everyone else reacting thuswise.

What a total chickenshit. I won't even say what else.

Seriously.





< Message edited by Edwynn -- 7/13/2013 6:40:14 PM >

(in reply to MasterCaneman)
Profile   Post #: 593
RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN - 7/13/2013 6:37:01 PM   
MasterCaneman


Posts: 3842
Joined: 3/21/2013
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444


quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterCaneman

And how long do you think she's gonna stick around if he does walk? Probably only long enough to get a cut of the book/movie deals and pfft! she's gone...

honestly? I dont think she is smart enough to walk.. she lied under oath and was charged with perjury about the money, after all.. cripes, if she had any brains she never would have testified, instead she would have cleaned out the paypal account while Zimmy was in jail and immediately taken a long vacay to Europe or somewhere and left him to rot in the can..

I forgot about that one. But I definitely see her bolting as soon as she can. She may not be smart enough, but I'll just bet some legal eagle is gonna whisper in her ear sometime soon. Hellooooo Belize!

_____________________________

Age and treachery will always overcome youth and ambition.

The supreme art of war is to subdue the enemy without fighting. ~ Sun Tzu

Goddess Wrangler



(in reply to tj444)
Profile   Post #: 594
RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN - 7/13/2013 6:39:37 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline 		What a total chickenshit. I won't even say what else.


Northern and foreign belief of what the south is like.
Kind of like assessing Kansas from the Wizard of Oz

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to Edwynn)
Profile   Post #: 595
RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN - 7/13/2013 6:43:49 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:

Very good you are throwing this at one of the few people on here who has contended that Martin may well have had a reasonable fear and that were it he on trial I would be defending him.


Acquiescing isnt the same as discussing. All I have heard is Z's fear, Z's rational thought, Z's belief.

ALL those things Z.. did to himself... despite the training he supposedly had.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 596
RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN - 7/13/2013 6:44:07 PM   
MasterCaneman


Posts: 3842
Joined: 3/21/2013
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwynn


quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterCaneman

You've got your knickers in a twist ...


I do? And, you know that I'm actually wearing knickers, just how?

OK, let's not go there.



quote:

If Obama hadn't said anything, this would be relegated to the local section of the paper.


Ha! Thanks for reminding.

I forgot that Obama was one of seemingly innumerous gateways to Zimmerman's escape from accountability, whatever the verdict.


quote:


I doubt you and all the other chest-beaters honestly give two wet shits about the kid-hell, I bet if you saw him strolling down your street, what are the chances you'd check your doors?


I wasn't beating my chest, and if I were still a teenager, you would be seriously disturbing me with such comment.

In any case, I live in the South, and anyone who lives here sees hundreds of black people of all ages 'strolling down the street' on a daily basis. Just because the prospect of even one black person strolling down the street would make you check your doors, that does not equate to everyone else reacting thuswise.

What a total chickenshit. I won't even say what else.

Seriously.





I've noticed that you like that word. 'Chickenshit'. Is that supposed to irritate me? Prove to others that you have the moral high ground? Okay, I'll take it for granted that where you live it's probably not all that unusual to see young black males around. Hell, I live in a Northeastern city, it's an everyday occurrence for me and I don't bat an eye either.

The point I was trying to make was that ultimately, most of the most vitriolic condemnation for what Zimmerman done comes from people who are themselves frightened of young black males. What plays in your 'hood might not go over so well in the snootier parts of town is what I'm saying. Can you seriously tell me that a Limousine Liberal is going to ignore a black kid in a hoodie walking through their gated community?

And sitting Presidents really shouldn't stick their noses into something like this. Not unless they have an ulterior motive, of course. I won't bother speculating what that may have been, but it's nice to have a big fluffy distraction when the shit hits the fan for you. Bush did it, Clinton did it, fuck, every President's done shit like that. Does it make it right? No, but what's done is done. He got his distraction.



< Message edited by MasterCaneman -- 7/13/2013 6:48:39 PM >

_____________________________

Age and treachery will always overcome youth and ambition.

The supreme art of war is to subdue the enemy without fighting. ~ Sun Tzu

Goddess Wrangler



(in reply to Edwynn)
Profile   Post #: 597
RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN - 7/13/2013 6:49:49 PM   
Edwynn


Posts: 4105
Joined: 10/26/2008
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Bama, in my former line of work I dealt with people from all over.

Leaving Europe or the Orient aside for the moment, those from the NE were the most serious and seemingly invariant bigots I've ever had the displeasure to deal with, followed closely by Midwesterners.


Once I get done with the uni, it's either Arkansas or California for me.

Maybe Birmingham. We'll see.


(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 598
RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN - 7/13/2013 6:50:40 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

Very good you are throwing this at one of the few people on here who has contended that Martin may well have had a reasonable fear and that were it he on trial I would be defending him.


Acquiescing isnt the same as discussing. All I have heard is Z's fear, Z's rational thought, Z's belief.

ALL those things Z.. did to himself... despite the training he supposedly had.

Since I have voiced these views repeatedly again I am the wrong person to hit with this.
Naturally there is more discussion of Zimmerman's state of mind for 2 reasons.
First he is the one on trial.
Second there are so many attacks made based on assumptions about his mind set many of which are silly.
Hit Rule with this I think it was he who said he was glad Martin was dead.
Rule if it wasn't you I apologize in advance.

< Message edited by BamaD -- 7/13/2013 6:57:24 PM >

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 599
RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN - 7/13/2013 6:55:44 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwynn


Bama, in my former line of work I dealt with people from all over.

Leaving Europe or the Orient aside for the moment, those from the NE were the most serious and seemingly invariant bigots I've ever had the displeasure to deal with, followed closely by Midwesterners.


Once I get done with the uni, it's either Arkansas or California for me.

Maybe Birmingham. We'll see.



My ex wife, who was black, said she saw more racism in one weekend in Detroit than in 40 years in N Carolina.
I'm happy with Alabama but I really liked Texas.
And I am from the Midwest I have to agree more bigotry there than here.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to Edwynn)
Profile   Post #: 600
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