Filibuster saved.

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DomKen -> Filibuster saved. (7/16/2013 5:54:14 PM)
And all it cost the Republicans is letting the President put two even more pro labor guys on the NLRB and confirming Robert Cordray to head the CFPB. http://www.politico.com/story/2013/07/white-house-consults-with-afl-cio-head-on-nlrb-picks-94280.html ROFLMAO

RottenJohnny -> RE: Filibuster saved. (7/16/2013 7:45:40 PM)
It might have been worth it for the Pubs here considering how the rules change could have effected future votes. There was a comment in a related article that mentions how the rules change could eliminate representation of the minority party in critical votes. http://www.politico.com/story/2013/07/senate-nears-nuclear-option-showdown-94156.html quote: But Republicans — and some Democrats — warn that invoking the nuclear option would encourage future majorities to change filibuster rules on legislation and judicial nominations by 51 votes, easing repeal of Obamacare or confirmation of controversial nominees to the Supreme Court. No longer will the Senate function as a body where minority rights are protected, they warn.

popeye1250 -> RE: Filibuster saved. (7/16/2013 7:56:53 PM)
They said on the news tonight (PBS) that one of those positions has been vacant for two years. (I forget which one) That kinda begs the question if it needs to be filled for $300k or however much plus a great benefits program then why fill it if it's been vacant for so long.

RottenJohnny -> RE: Filibuster saved. (7/16/2013 8:14:18 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: popeye1250 They said on the news tonight (PBS) that one of those positions has been vacant for two years. (I forget which one) That kinda begs the question if it needs to be filled for $300k or however much plus a great benefits program then why fill it if it's been vacant for so long. I think there could be a back side to this in which the Pubs hoped to keep the NLRB from functioning. Unfortunately for them, it seems the Dems upped the ante.

Phydeaux -> RE: Filibuster saved. (7/16/2013 8:33:44 PM)
Well, there are implications of this that are not immediately apparent. For example, if they interim appoinments are removed it strengthens the case the the current prosecutions (which were a travesty) will be overturned. Second, while the repubs agreed to not filibuster the labor apointments, they didn't agree to not filibuster other legislation. If they go slow it, they can delay the appointments past the August recess. But I doubt they will. Personally, I wasn't against most of the appointments, but The people for the NLRB and the EPA were pretty egregious.

RottenJohnny -> RE: Filibuster saved. (7/16/2013 8:55:29 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Phydeaux For example, if they interim appoinments are removed it strengthens the case the the current prosecutions (which were a travesty) will be overturned. What prosecutions are you referring to?

cloudboy -> RE: Filibuster saved. (7/16/2013 9:37:10 PM)
It is alarming to have an opposition party that simply doesn't give a shit about properly running the Federal government.

Phydeaux -> RE: Filibuster saved. (7/16/2013 9:47:28 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: RottenJohnny quote: ORIGINAL: Phydeaux For example, if they interim appoinments are removed it strengthens the case the the current prosecutions (which were a travesty) will be overturned. What prosecutions are you referring to? NLRB Staff have been directed to make investigations and findings by Lafe Solomon. First, no quorom existed to direct staff to do these investigations. Second, lafe himself was an illegal appointment, and according to the court of appeals, illegal. There have been literally 1000's of decisions, investigations, findings made without authority, that will be the cause of litigation for quite awhile. This applies to the NLRB and two other agencies, IIRC. These aren't exactly the same. Still interesting reading: http://townhall.com/columnists/danepstein/2013/06/26/the-nlrbs-oversight-loophole-n1627404/page/full http://lrionline.com/lafe-solomon-being-investigated http://utu.org/2013/05/08/20354/

Phydeaux -> RE: Filibuster saved. (7/16/2013 9:55:01 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: cloudboy It is alarming to have an opposition party that simply doesn't give a shit about properly running the Federal government. Its even worse when its a majority party.

DomKen -> RE: Filibuster saved. (7/17/2013 12:01:01 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Phydeaux Well, there are implications of this that are not immediately apparent. For example, if they interim appoinments are removed it strengthens the case the the current prosecutions (which were a travesty) will be overturned. Second, while the repubs agreed to not filibuster the labor apointments, they didn't agree to not filibuster other legislation. If they go slow it, they can delay the appointments past the August recess. But I doubt they will. Personally, I wasn't against most of the appointments, but The people for the NLRB and the EPA were pretty egregious. The EPA chief is not controversial at all. The Republicans were holding it up just to hold it up. The two NLRB appointees were centrists who were not approved in an attempt to keep the NLRB from functioning at all. Now we get 2 very pro labor appointments approved right now, and it will be finished before the August recess, and another vacancy filled in 2014 with out a filibuster. IOW the pubs screwed the pooch. I think what happened is they thought by agreeing to withdraw the two NLRB nominees they were making the White House start over on appointments which would have meant delays while the nominees were chosen and vetted. It looks like Reid and Obama had that as a plan all along and the pubs simply walked into the neatly laid trap.

Phydeaux -> RE: Filibuster saved. (7/17/2013 10:20:41 AM)
I agree that the pubs walked into a neatly laid trap. I'm not sure that they shouldn't have just made the democrats end the traditions of the senate, because reid can always resort to the threat again. I don't agree AT ALL that the current appointments were centrist, nor does the track record what has transpired. Nor do I agree that the EPA appointment was centrist. McCarthy is the person making all the rules about CO2 emissions for coal fired power plants - and thats a freaking nightmare. We've already had the announcement of 3 decommisionings (hmm 4 now). And if McCarthy gets to finalize the rules she proposed the estimate is that 1/4 of all power plants in the us will shut in the next 4-5 years. Regardless of whether you support these policies or not - you can't make the claim that they are centrist. They are quite far to the left.

Phydeaux -> RE: Filibuster saved. (7/17/2013 10:25:11 AM)
A bit more on McCarthy New Source Performance Standard for new power plants. Under the rule, which some say could play a major role in Obama's climate strategy, no new power plant could emit more than 1,000lb CO2/MWh - about the same as a new natural-gas combined-cycle power plant. The emissions target is far lower than even the most efficient coal plants today, which emit carbon at around 1,800 lb CO2/MWh. It would effectively rule out the use of coal in the electric sector. Again - you are eliminating and entire industry that provides roughly a third of the power in the United States. In 5 years. Even if it were sensible - the costs of decommissioning all these power plants - and building new ones - will cause consumer electric rates to double or triple - which of course is obama's intent. It will destroy not thousands of jobs - but hundreds of thousands of jobs as energy costs work through the system. And of course, that many power plants simply can't be built in that time frame. So there will have to be politically motivated waivers... But the disaster doesn't just end there. Go here: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/06/15/gina-mccarthy-epa-confirmation_n_3444501.html and look at the variety of industries that use coal power to generate power - cement, metals, waste, chemicals, pulp & paper, sugar refineries. This is a nightmare

mnottertail -> RE: Filibuster saved. (7/17/2013 10:31:24 AM)
Or America, the inventive society, the capitalistic society, the 'free market' society, will come up with ways to actually reduce the emissions to come into compliance with those levels, creating jobs for many. Yanno, 'CLEAN COAL'. Rather than the cap and trade horseshit and the whining. The caterwauling codswallow was greater when they had to get down to 18k. But many scrubbers and upgrades and improvement and efficiencies were attained and it was done.

Phydeaux -> RE: Filibuster saved. (7/17/2013 10:57:28 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mnottertail Or America, the inventive society, the capitalistic society, the 'free market' society, will come up with ways to actually reduce the emissions to come into compliance with those levels, creating jobs for many. Yanno, 'CLEAN COAL'. Rather than the cap and trade horseshit and the whining. The caterwauling codswallow was greater when they had to get down to 18k. But many scrubbers and upgrades and improvement and efficiencies were attained and it was done. Since you have no degree as far as I know in any engineering discpline, I can understand you not understanding that scrubbers do not remove CO2. Scrubbers, such as wet ESP are used in the removal of polutants such as metals, Nox, S04 etc. Nothing to do with CO2. Lowering the emissions per mw was achieved previously by retrofitting combined cycle generators on the power plants - hundreds of millions of dollars were invested to get the efficiency from the mid 40's to the low 50s. Improvements in this area require millions of dollars just to get improvements of tenths of a percent. Increasing the efficiency to 90% isn't even thermodynamically possible, let alone technologically. This bill - just like has happened with spain and germany is designed to double or triple electrical rates. (At which point solar and hydro starts to look competitive). It will push jobs to china - and it will cause a net increase in emissions.

mnottertail -> RE: Filibuster saved. (7/17/2013 11:12:24 AM)
Yeah, not so fast there smutpeddler. First of all it will be very hard for china to supply electricity for us, with your advanced engineering discipline you should know that batteries are gonna be a fucker to charge and ship. Uh, maybe you have heard of sequestration here or there, now in china and other ancient cultures, they used to burn and leave charcoal on the ground to get carbon into the ground. Your not having some advanced discipline degree in botany and earthen life cycles, you may not know that something like that is really cute and something that is actually a great idea. I have an idea!!! Check it out? CARBON SEQUESTRATION!!! God, how did I come up with that? It is so just fuckin brilliant. Also, you may not have an advanced discipline degree in Plasma Converters or Plasma Furnaces, so you should look that up, you can burn coal as well as trash, and there are pretty good side products come off that. Combined with carbon sequestration, and lets say, using hemp instead of corn for fuels.......well, don't need an advanced discipline degree for shit to see it can be done. We are Americans. And remember even the communists are not communists anymore.

mnottertail -> RE: Filibuster saved. (7/17/2013 11:33:41 AM)
quote: Since you have no degree as far as I know in any engineering discpline, I can understand you not understanding that scrubbers do not remove CO2. Scrubbers, such as wet ESP are used in the removal of polutants such as metals, Nox, S04 etc. Nothing to do with CO2. Oh yeah, I forgot this. Since you do not have a degree in any public relations discipline or are not a coal burning electrical plant yourself, you were probably blind sided by this lack of engineering: http://www.rwe.com/web/cms/en/2734/rwe/innovation/projects-technologies/power-generation/fossil-fired-power-plants/co2-scrubbing/ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_dioxide_scrubber Yeah, but those of us (which would be the greatest portion of the real world) refer to them as Co2 scrubbers. You may with your advanced engineering degree discipline have forgotten to remember that very common and fundamental basic fuckin concept. My father spent 20 years as part of the construction crews installing them here and there as an electrician. I am pretty sure he wasn't an internet blowhard. He brought paychecks home and everything.

Phydeaux -> RE: Filibuster saved. (7/17/2013 11:46:10 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mnottertail quote: Since you have no degree as far as I know in any engineering discpline, I can understand you not understanding that scrubbers do not remove CO2. Scrubbers, such as wet ESP are used in the removal of polutants such as metals, Nox, S04 etc. Nothing to do with CO2. Oh yeah, I forgot this. Since you do not have a degree in any public relations discipline or are not a coal burning electrical plant yourself, you were probably blind sided by this lack of engineering: http://www.rwe.com/web/cms/en/2734/rwe/innovation/projects-technologies/power-generation/fossil-fired-power-plants/co2-scrubbing/ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_dioxide_scrubber Yeah, but those of us (which would be the greatest portion of the real world) refer to them as Co2 scrubbers. You may with your advanced engineering degree discipline have forgotten to remember that very common and fundamental basic fuckin concept. My father spent 20 years as part of the construction crews installing them here and there as an electrician. I am pretty sure he wasn't an internet blowhard. He brought paychecks home and everything. You're right that when someone uses a technical term (like the power plants installed scrubbers) which has a very specific meaning and then extrapolates it to mean coal sequestration - you're right never occured to me you might mean that.

mnottertail -> RE: Filibuster saved. (7/17/2013 11:56:10 AM)
yes, well, I did not do such a thing, but I do think your hallucinations will pass given time. I said scrubbers and you informed me extremelby incorrectly with much ado about nothing that they don't deal with co2. You also stated that they can not physically reduce from 1800 because of this or that, which of course is horseshit, because they can use sequestration to achieve that. I then derisively (because it was appropriate, given your untutored pedantics) pointed out your horseshit that scrubbers do not handle co2 is engineering discipline style asswipe. You are conflating or configuring crap in your own mind that simply doesn't exist. My original point stands, and is reinforced by subsequent events.

Phydeaux -> RE: Filibuster saved. (7/17/2013 11:57:32 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mnottertail Yeah, not so fast there smutpeddler. First of all it will be very hard for china to supply electricity for us, with your advanced engineering discipline you should know that batteries are gonna be a fucker to charge and ship. What??? I said nothing about shipping power to the US. What heppened in Germany and spain is that industries went out of business due to the cost of electricity. The products those industries made are produced in the low cost countries - which are places like china. And due to the fact that china has worse air polution rules and worse efficiency - the net effect is higher CO2 emissions. quote: Uh, maybe you have heard of sequestration here or there, now in china and other ancient cultures, they used to burn and leave charcoal on the ground to get carbon into the ground. Your not having some advanced discipline degree in botany and earthen life cycles, you may not know that something like that is really cute and something that is actually a great idea. I have an idea!!! Check it out? CARBON SEQUESTRATION!!! God, how did I come up with that? It is so just fuckin brilliant. Also, you may not have an advanced discipline degree in Plasma Converters or Plasma Furnaces, so you should look that up, you can burn coal as well as trash, and there are pretty good side products come off that. Combined with carbon sequestration, and lets say, using hemp instead of corn for fuels.......well, don't need an advanced discipline degree for shit to see it can be done. We are Americans. And remember even the communists are not communists anymore. Unlike you I am well aware of hybrid combustion cycles, which allows the burning of trash/carbon. I am also aware: A). Combustion temperatures have to be lower to comply with Nox and So4 emissions. This lowers efficiency. B). We have enormous problems getting trash incinerators approved in the US. Current clean air requirements, and local citing laws have basically squashed that industry. Finally, I said there are no technologies that will allow carbon to operate economically. The cost to sequester the coal will make coal power more costlly than solar power (if you believe govt figures, which I don't). Regardless, however, it won't be capable of competing with natural gas or nuclear. Until of course, the feds tighten the screws again... killing more jobs.

Phydeaux -> RE: Filibuster saved. (7/17/2013 11:59:20 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mnottertail yes, well, I did not do such a thing, but I do think your hallucinations will pass given time. I said scrubbers and you informed me extremelby incorrectly with much ado about nothing that they don't deal with co2. You also stated that they can not physically reduce from 1800 because of this or that, which of course is horseshit, because they can use sequestration to achieve that. I then derisively (because it was appropriate, given your untutored pedantics) pointed out your horseshit that scrubbers do not handle co2 is engineering discipline style asswipe. You are conflating or configuring crap in your own mind that simply doesn't exist. My original point stands, and is reinforced by subsequent events. Go read your own links asswipe. Carbon scrubbing is done with absorbers, not scrubbers. Here let me quote from YOUR link: How does CO2 scrubbing work? In principle, the basic CO2-scrubbing process is very simple. In an absorber about 90% of the CO2 contained in the flue gas can be bound to a CO2 solvent at a relatively low temperature and, hence, removed.

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