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NSA Spying - 7/17/2013 4:17:54 PM   
Esinn


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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0U37hl0n9mY

Some have claimed that Americans don't care about the revelations that the NSA is conducting massive surveillance on our private communications. But Oliver Stone isn't buying it.

In a video produced with the ACLU, Director Oliver Stone shares some of his reflections on the NSA spying program and the disastrous legacy of unchecked government abuse of power. All Americans should stand up for our civil liberties at this critical moment in history, he says-- by asking our representatives in Congress to roll back the surveillance state.

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RE: NSA Spying - 7/17/2013 5:05:41 PM   
jlf1961


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I have one question concerning the NSA spying....

Why the hell weren't drug dealers, pedophiles, child porn distributors, and all the other criminals that use cell phones tracked down?

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RE: NSA Spying - 7/17/2013 5:37:36 PM   
Real0ne


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quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

I have one question concerning the NSA spying....

Why the hell weren't drug dealers, pedophiles, child porn distributors, and all the other criminals that use cell phones tracked down?


irfuckingrelevant and you know it.

where is the probable cause?

Hi judgeroo, we know you are are a corporate rico thug so we just want to indict this person based on our snooping. We need to teach all those asswipes that think freedom means free from our spying on them a thing or two since they pose an immediate threat to welfare of statism and our house of cards power structure.

Your communication with another is private unless you willfully place it in the public domain with intent to do so.

How bout that jeff :)



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RE: NSA Spying - 7/17/2013 6:02:41 PM   
Termyn8or


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quote:

Why the hell weren't drug dealers, pedophiles, child porn distributors, and all the other criminals that use cell phones tracked down?


Cellphone towers can and do track you to within about two feet. This is not bullshit. The antenna arrays are phased by hi-speed ICs which detect direction and range which conserves power. The antenna at the tower does not transmit omnidirectionally like a radio station because it would cost too much in power. Not so much the electricity used, but the heat generated. It also picks up the same way, it does not pick up omnidirectionally and this gives it a much better signal to noise ratio.

There is no reason to believe these data are not recorded, people have been surrounded on a public street when they were on the phone, shit like this. They can also tell the location of a cellphone used to detonate a bomb for example. They could also have provided the court with information on Travon Martin's movements, but they did not.

This technology is in common use but not made public much, though it is not secret. You can find it where I did - in technical manuals about the ICs that run communication systems. They pretty much do not have to physically move an antenna around for RADAR anymore, though certain systems still do for technical reasons.

They do not want to end the war on drugs, there is money in it. Think of all the budget cuts there would be if there were no drug dealers (except the worst ones, the prescribers). How many people would be out of a job ? It would be a disaster not just for the government but the economy in general, as if they haven't killed that enough yet. And you do know that the government or its employees bring in most of the foreign drugs anyway I hope. Who else could supply such demand ?

Sure they bust someone once in a while but that is competition. They don't like that. This goes on right under their noses, some know, some don't. Regardless, the fact still remains that as long as the problem is not solved, they will continue to get paid to solve it.

So you may ask why all this surveillence ? They do not care about anything except threats to their power. That means people who have the resources and other abilities to do things in a big way like start a third party or to organize gun owners for a march or something. To actually threaten their stranglehold on power in this country. That is the reason why invading our privacy is just about the only thing on which both sides of the aisle agree. They also gerrymander together in case you hadn't noticed. The people are waking up slowly despite the government's best efforts, and they are the ones in terror.

Once they get that job, job number one is keeping that job. Fundraising starts on day one, literally. We no longer matter. And their salaries do not matter, they don't need them. Almost all of them could wipe their asses with $170,000 a year. Shit, that ain't even the top five percent. Now if you consider the bribes, the LEGAL insider trading and the perks they get when they "retire", that is a different story.

You must understand their goals. With an open mind, over the years their actions will tell you their goals. Then it all makes sense and you almost know what they will do next. I knew all this was coming decades ago but people told me I was a nut.

CRACK ! LOL

T^T

ETA : this all applies when the cellphone is not in use as well.

< Message edited by Termyn8or -- 7/17/2013 6:17:18 PM >

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RE: NSA Spying - 7/17/2013 6:22:51 PM   
Real0ne


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and you know what? the shit is hitting the fan more and more because more people are turning off the propaganda mill and going online and filtering what they read by their own abilities to obtain the facts and they so fucking do not like what they see.

There is still a good part of the population who gets their news from tv zombie land but that is changing fast and every time someone turns on the internet the gubafia losses another cheerleader.

_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

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RE: NSA Spying - 7/17/2013 7:16:22 PM   
Esinn


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quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

I have one question concerning the NSA spying....

Why the hell weren't drug dealers, pedophiles, child porn distributors, and all the other criminals that use cell phones tracked down?

As someone suggested it is not about catching bad guys. This type of SIGINT is found on a battlefield. It is intended to monitor, identify and isolate enemy targets.

I do not think for a moment the government is anywhere near going to war with average citizens. But, this is all extraordinarily scary. It must immediately be stopped. Prism is only a portion of the domestic war/surveillance we learned about through the Snowden Catalyst. Regardless what you think of him the media circus has been BS. If you think he is a jerk, dick or cheat. The information is out there, it is demonstrable and as suggested it is unconstitutional and illegal. Our government (USG) has been intentionally lying to us about it for decades and using our money to pay for it or pay for their defense when groups like the ACLU, EFF, EPIC or CCR have sued in the past.

I can not tell others what to do. But I would hope people would be scared, interested and motivated to take some steps to stop this.

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RE: NSA Spying - 7/17/2013 7:22:34 PM   
Esinn


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I think I agree 105% with 99% of the stuff you said. Though IMSI catching or using a cell to locate an individual through means other than GPS is not really IC. We can do it to our ex wives, slaves or the slut down the road - as ethical hackers of course.

Retail stores do it as well:
http://www.ubergizmo.com/2013/07/retail-stores-track-their-customers-through-cell-phone-wi-fi-signals/

You can get some pretty specific FOIA information on what you are speaking about if you Site: search - https://www.publicintelligence.net/


A bigger concern to me is things like Boundless Informant, 'lawful' intercepts, CCTV IXP Hijacking (Legit SIGINT). This government here, even going back before Bush is very very fucking scary.

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RE: NSA Spying - 7/17/2013 7:25:00 PM   
Esinn


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

and you know what? the shit is hitting the fan more and more because more people are turning off the propaganda mill and going online and filtering what they read by their own abilities to obtain the facts and they so fucking do not like what they see.


Nothing is perfect... But, I use TOR/VPN/Proxies when possible. I despise FOX/MSNBC and CNN equally. I try to use multiple sources from TRNN, RT or overseas which might not be as bias. As I said - it is all very scary. I am depressed no one was already talking about this at great length and so few have commented. :(

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RE: NSA Spying - 7/17/2013 7:36:24 PM   
Kana


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quote:

We can do it to our ex wives, slaves or the slut down the road - as ethical hackers of course.

A couple years back we had a thread about this-GPS chipping a slave.
It was a great discussion.I so like the idea.Not for paranoiac purposes but just because the control aspects. It's just a fucking lovely concept in myriad manifestations

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RE: NSA Spying - 7/17/2013 8:40:45 PM   
vincentML


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne


quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

I have one question concerning the NSA spying....

Why the hell weren't drug dealers, pedophiles, child porn distributors, and all the other criminals that use cell phones tracked down?


irfuckingrelevant and you know it.

where is the probable cause?

[SNIP FOR BREVITY]

Your communication with another is private unless you willfully place it in the public domain with intent to do so.

How bout that jeff :)



The probable cause is in association or contact with others known to be dirty.

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RE: NSA Spying - 7/17/2013 8:52:42 PM   
RottenJohnny


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quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

I have one question concerning the NSA spying....

Why the hell weren't drug dealers, pedophiles, child porn distributors, and all the other criminals that use cell phones tracked down?


When I decide to commit a crime I always leave my cellphone taped underneath a picnic table in the local park.

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RE: NSA Spying - 7/17/2013 9:20:09 PM   
Esinn


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quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML


quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne


quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

I have one question concerning the NSA spying....

Why the hell weren't drug dealers, pedophiles, child porn distributors, and all the other criminals that use cell phones tracked down?


irfuckingrelevant and you know it.

where is the probable cause?

[SNIP FOR BREVITY]

Your communication with another is private unless you willfully place it in the public domain with intent to do so.

How bout that jeff :)



The probable cause is in association or contact with others known to be dirty.


Relevant to programs like Boundless Informant or Prism? Most likely this is untrue. If you remember Stellarwind or other operations/programs of a similar nature it was untrue as well. We have a well documented history of lies of this nature, there is a pattern. Relevant to Stellarwind, it was such a blatant violation of constitutional rights the government was forced to grant immunity to the Telecoms involved. If not they might have correctly sued out of business. These "lawful intercepts" are so huge. They impact 1/2 the country or more. Your probable cause suggestion fails. That is my only point.

This is "SIGINT" - signal intelligence. Indiscriminate siphoning of communications without oversight or accountability; it is ineffective, illegal and unnecessary. If for no other reason it is unaffordable.

While 30-40 different national and international programs/operations were uncovered. Sticking with Prism/BI. They are very similar to Stellarwind when multiple IXPs were hijacked. The similarities are important legally and just because it is interesting. AND scary as fuck. There is tons of data on it. But, here is some information IXP hijacks - http://www.ixmaps.ca/tour.php

GL - be scared. The USG is creepy, wasteful and confused at best. Or evil and dangerous at worst. Either way it desires to operate above the law and beyond accountability.

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RE: NSA Spying - 7/17/2013 9:25:32 PM   
Esinn


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Eff NSA Biden/Obama <--- Here is another great video. I almost want a new topic for it. It is from EFF. Another group who needs support that is suing the NSA.

< Message edited by Esinn -- 7/17/2013 9:29:21 PM >


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RE: NSA Spying - 7/17/2013 9:31:36 PM   
MasterCaneman


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quote:

ORIGINAL: RottenJohnny


quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

I have one question concerning the NSA spying....

Why the hell weren't drug dealers, pedophiles, child porn distributors, and all the other criminals that use cell phones tracked down?


When I decide to commit a crime I always leave my cellphone taped underneath a picnic table in the local park.


Under the mayor's son's car...

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RE: NSA Spying - 7/17/2013 9:43:55 PM   
RottenJohnny


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterCaneman


quote:

ORIGINAL: RottenJohnny


quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

I have one question concerning the NSA spying....

Why the hell weren't drug dealers, pedophiles, child porn distributors, and all the other criminals that use cell phones tracked down?


When I decide to commit a crime I always leave my cellphone taped underneath a picnic table in the local park.


Under the mayor's son's car...


...or my ex-ol' lady's.

Wait a minute, maybe I need to leave my phone in the park and take my ex-ol' lady's to a crime. That makes much more sense.



< Message edited by RottenJohnny -- 7/17/2013 9:47:10 PM >


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RE: NSA Spying - 7/17/2013 10:52:17 PM   
TheHeretic


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Snowden turned a nice phrase, when he described the technology and practices as, "turn-key tyranny." All the pieces of a police state are being assembled around us. There was a story in the WaPo today, about lawsuits over the police license plate scanning that is going on all across the country.

We have been given a window with these disclosures, where people who care about individual liberty and freedom (dare I suggest, regardless of party and ideological preference?) could make a difference in how the use of such technology is controlled, and how it may and may never, be used.

I disagree with Stone politically, but he has made some movies I really like. No worries. Something as threatening to our fundamental values as this, ought to produce some strange bedfellows.

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RE: NSA Spying - 7/18/2013 12:28:26 AM   
Esinn


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I disagree with Stone on a lot. But, he most likely has better shit to do than make 3 minute videos. I think it is a demonstration of how important it is. This far surpasses class, religion or political lean. It is about intentional violation of the rule of law/constitution. Using out tax dollars to violate that law. Then, when caught using our tax dollars to defend.

Every living ex-IC whistle blower I am aware of has suggested this is the greatest threat we have ever faced. Tie all of this, we learn more every day in with things like the license plate scanners..... OR Travel Prediction , the recruiting of multinational corporations to help, predictive policing. It is all so odd. This is what one would literally expect to find in a warzone. Not the USA.

So, I guess I just regurgitated in different words what you said, I believe. Sorry it is 3am. I agree.....

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RE: NSA Spying - 7/18/2013 6:39:02 AM   
JeffBC


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Esinn
Some have claimed that Americans don't care about the revelations that the NSA is conducting massive surveillance on our private communications. But Oliver Stone isn't buying it.

You should buy it. It appears to be true. These very forums show how true it is.

quote:

ORIGINAL:jlf1961
Why the hell weren't drug dealers, pedophiles, child porn distributors, and all the other criminals that use cell phones tracked down?

Particularly since one of the largest segments of drug dealers is doctors nowadays and to the best of my knowledge prescription drugs are tracked. Our opiates come from Merck nowadays not Afghanistan.

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RE: NSA Spying - 7/18/2013 12:58:55 PM   
Esinn


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quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffBC

quote:

ORIGINAL: Esinn
Some have claimed that Americans don't care about the revelations that the NSA is conducting massive surveillance on our private communications. But Oliver Stone isn't buying it.

You should buy it. It appears to be true. These very forums show how true it is.



I am broke, I can not buy anything. But, I acknowledge the threat and know it is true.

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RE: NSA Spying - 7/18/2013 3:17:41 PM   
Phydeaux


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The engineers that design and run each ISP's internet are CCIE's. Each major company has 3-4 of them on staff.
I had the privilege of attending school with the man in charge of the Verizon network.

Each ISP facility had a closet where NSA representatives had keyed access to.

There are millions of routers in the US alone. But the vast majority of these are 'edge' routers. And these routers are not, generally speaking, monitored. So, if your traffic originates and terminates with one edge routers domain- your communications (last I knew) were not monitored.

However, most edge traffic traverses edge routers and goes to trunks. These are things like most web browsers, most torrent traffic, most external email. Here it is a different case entirely.

Routers/switches have supported a technology for more than 20 years called port mirroring or port forwarding. By which any traffic that crosses that router can be copied to another port.

And is.

The data center in utah is one of 6 data centers in the US. It has the capacity of 5 zettabytes - or roughly 250 billion DVDs or roughly 100 years worth of worldwide communications.

And this data center is one of 6 in the united states.

Caveat emptor.



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