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Democrats subjected TEA party applications to Political... - 7/19/2013 12:02:13 PM

Phydeaux

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Rep. Trey Gowdy, a South Carolina Republican, finally woke the proceedings up with what he called "the evolution of the defense" since the scandal began. First, Ms. Lerner planted a question at a conference. Then she said the Cincinnati office did it—a narrative that was advanced by the president's spokesman, Jay Carney. Then came the suggestion the IRS was too badly managed to pull off a sophisticated conspiracy. Then the charge that liberal groups were targeted too—"we did it against both ends of the political spectrum." When the inspector general of the IRS said no, it was conservative groups that were targeted, he came under attack. Now the defense is that the White House wasn't involved, so case closed.

Interesting that Lois Lerner, putatively a staff employee is coordinating strategy with the white house. That is not supposed to occur. Notice that it was she that requested the forward to the political counsel office. Also note that she advanced the same narrative as the presidents spokesman, suggesting collaboration.

No wonder she is pleading the 5th....

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RE: Democrats subjected TEA party applications to Polit... - 7/19/2013 12:05:55 PM

mnottertail

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Why start another thread you have one like this already and just as already fucked up with asswipery.

Lois Lerner is a W job. At best you have a nutsucker party false flag operation against the president.

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RE: Democrats subjected TEA party applications to Polit... - 7/19/2013 3:03:49 PM

Kana

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The WSJ has an interesting article re this.
Not taking sides, just posting the link for public consumption

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RE: Democrats subjected TEA party applications to Polit... - 7/19/2013 3:17:27 PM

JeffBC

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kana
The WSJ has an interesting article re this.
Not taking sides, just posting the link for public consumption

now that IS interesting. I have to admit that after the whole Ken Starr thing I'm pretty soured on the entire idea of a special prosecutor. I have it in my head as a way to spend millions on bullshit political actions. But this makes me think there might be more than bullshit politics here.

_____________________________

I'm a lover of "what is", not because I'm a spiritual person, but because it hurts when I argue with reality. -- Bryon Katie
"You're humbly arrogant" -- sunshinemiss
officially a member of the K Crowd

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RE: Democrats subjected TEA party applications to Polit... - 7/19/2013 3:28:39 PM

Phydeaux

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Yes, that's the article I was quoting from

Ron, you as usual will just defend democrats right or wrong - so your opinion and vulgarity have no relevance.

For those that are a little less biased - there is quite a bit of irony to this. Turns out Pwilfred has some familiarity with this issue. He's the fellow that defended President Obama's church when it (allegedly) violated its 501 requirements by President Obama's speaking engagements.

It was found, by a friendly court, to be excused on the technicality that this was before he announced his candidacy. Of course, one could argue that since his senatorial reelection was still operational that it was, of course, a violation of law. Or you could argue that since the actual engagement occured after the candidacy was announced it was a (flagrant) violation of law. But hey.. good thing the guy in charge of making that determination is... why its you!
And my - its a good thing we don't leave it to staff to make those determinations.

But hey... if we say "the most transparent administration in history" often enough people have to believe you!

Anyway some interesting background on pwilfred:

During his tenure at WilmerHale, he helped defend Obama's former church, Trinity United Church of Christ in Chicago, and its then-pastor Rev. Jeremiah Wright after the IRS began looking at then-presidential candidate Obama's speaking engagement at the church.

Tax exempt non-profit organizations are legally prevented from participating in political campaign activities. Wilkins and other attorneys at WilmerHale took on the case pro bono and were able to successfully argue that the church offered their invitation to Obama before he announced his presidential candidacy.

Ironically, the church was accused for violating its 501 tax-exempt status. Several Tea Party and conservative groups claimed they were denied a similar designation by the IRS as part of the current scandal.

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/07/19/republicans-question-obama-appointee-role-in-irs-scandal/#ixzz2ZX54Usqi

< Message edited by Phydeaux -- 7/19/2013 3:30:46 PM >

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Post #: 5

RE: Democrats subjected TEA party applications to Polit... - 7/19/2013 4:07:32 PM

JeffBC

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux
But hey... if we say "the most transparent administration in history" often enough people have to believe you!

Speaking as a pinko liberal commie, the idea that Obama is "transparent" is just plain incredible to me. I could be wrong but as much as I hate bush I think he might have been more straight-forward. Obama is just plain a snake. It pisses me off I voted for him the first time around. I hate getting fooled like that.

My only problem with this is ... well .. the Republicans. If we could somehow get the Republican party to grow the hell up and allow a nice, orderly investigation to happen I'd be all for it. But you and I know that isn't about to happen. So it's kind of "damned if you do and damned if you don't."

_____________________________

I'm a lover of "what is", not because I'm a spiritual person, but because it hurts when I argue with reality. -- Bryon Katie
"You're humbly arrogant" -- sunshinemiss
officially a member of the K Crowd

(in reply to Phydeaux)

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RE: Democrats subjected TEA party applications to Polit... - 7/19/2013 4:59:29 PM

Phydeaux

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quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffBC

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux
But hey... if we say "the most transparent administration in history" often enough people have to believe you!

Speaking as a pinko liberal commie, the idea that Obama is "transparent" is just plain incredible to me. I could be wrong but as much as I hate bush I think he might have been more straight-forward. Obama is just plain a snake. It pisses me off I voted for him the first time around. I hate getting fooled like that.

My only problem with this is ... well .. the Republicans. If we could somehow get the Republican party to grow the hell up and allow a nice, orderly investigation to happen I'd be all for it. But you and I know that isn't about to happen. So it's kind of "damned if you do and damned if you don't."

But if you're going to be damned, you might as well fix as many financial problems as you can.
Jeff - I have to congratulate you. I don't agree with anyone on the left. But I respect anyone that says... this law was broken - and any party (or person) that breaks it gets prosecuted.

Thank you.

(in reply to JeffBC)

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RE: Democrats subjected TEA party applications to Polit... - 7/19/2013 5:01:23 PM

Phydeaux

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I wonder if DomKen and all those saying the TEA Party groups were ineligible to participate in political events - I wonder if they were just as loud calling for justice when it was Obama's church being investigated.

Somehow, I'm guessing not.....Funny. I don't remember hearing a word about it.

(in reply to Phydeaux)

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RE: Democrats subjected TEA party applications to Polit... - 7/19/2013 6:04:52 PM

popeye1250

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux

I wonder if DomKen and all those saying the TEA Party groups were ineligible to participate in political events - I wonder if they were just as loud calling for justice when it was Obama's church being investigated.

Somehow, I'm guessing not.....Funny. I don't remember hearing a word about it.

Yeah but DomKen believes in,....."global warming" too.
Gee, a DEMOCRATIC Administration and they want us to believe that they fucked over the rights of ..."Liberal Groups too?"
Like that's supposed to somehow.....make it all right?
(In my best Church Lady voice;) "Wellllll, well, well,...isn't that SPEC-IAL....aren't those little democrats in Washington becomming such goooood little brown shirts!"
"And I wonder just who that comes from?"

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RE: Democrats subjected TEA party applications to Polit... - 7/19/2013 6:57:00 PM

cloudboy

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From that Radical Newspaper USA Today

In a memo released last week, Treasury Department investigators said they examined 5,500 e-mails in an effort to understand why some applications were held up. They concluded that the employees were doing so because they "were not sure how to process them, not because they wanted to stall or hinder the application."

Also emerging since the initial report: Some liberal groups, and a host of centrist or non-political ones, also had their applications held up as the IRS struggled ineptly to comply with complex laws that define whether political advocacy groups can qualify for tax-exempt status.

That is hardly as sexy a story line as an administration using its powers against its political foes, the way Richard Nixon's henchmen pressured the IRS to audit his enemies. But at this point, it appears to be the more accurate explanation.

Thursday, Congress will hold its seventh hearing on the matter. While not entirely without their uses, many of these sessions have been less about uncovering facts than in trying to paint a portrait of White House involvement. That pattern might be continuing in a new line of questioning posed Wednesday by Rep. Darrell Issa, R-Calif., the highly partisan chairman of the House Oversight and Government Reform Committee. Issa issued a news release demanding to know why the IRS chief counsel's office asked in 2010 for information about Tea Party applications.

Underlining and emphasis added. I always feel a bit of sorrow for theHeretic and his forlorn hopes for a SPECIAL PROSECUTOR.

I Agree with JEFF (partially) -- with Republicans its Game of Thrones (getting power -- giving out favors) and its not about the public interest whatsoever. (We don't agree on the Democrats b/c I'm less cynical about them.)

(in reply to Phydeaux)

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RE: Democrats subjected TEA party applications to Polit... - 7/19/2013 7:55:37 PM

Phydeaux

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quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy

That is hardly as sexy a story line as an administration using its powers against its political foes, the way Richard Nixon's henchmen pressured the IRS to audit his enemies. But at this point, it appears to be the more accurate explanation.

Thursday, Congress will hold its seventh hearing on the matter. While not entirely without their uses, many of these sessions have been less about uncovering facts than in trying to paint a portrait of White House involvement. That pattern might be continuing in a new line of questioning posed Wednesday by Rep. Darrell Issa, R-Calif., the highly partisan chairman of the House Oversight and Government Reform Committee. Issa issued a news release demanding to know why the IRS chief counsel's office asked in 2010 for information about Tea Party applications.[/size]

Underlining and emphasis added. I always feel a bit of sorrow for theHeretic and his forlorn hopes for a SPECIAL PROSECUTOR.

I Agree with JEFF (partially) -- with Republicans its Game of Thrones (getting power -- giving out favors) and its not about the public interest whatsoever. (We don't agree on the Democrats b/c I'm less cynical about them.)

How is it *less* sexy cloudboy - its exactly the same. Lets invite some comparisons to watergate.

Watergate featured the FBI investigating.
Watergate had a special prosecutor.
Watergate took pretty much 2 years - from june of 72 till nixons resignation in 74.

So, you're right - after 7 sessions, without any kind of FBI involvement - you're right - there's no smoking gun to the president. Although - there is to his political appointee. The man that ran this section of the IRS is supposed to do it impartially - and yet the president's appointee did not.

So, in the interests of fairness and transparency- how about we appoint a special prosecutor, and setup an FBI taskforce, and find out exactly wha happened. I mean if the President is innocent he has nothing to fear does he....
Surely you're in favor of the rule of law...

(in reply to cloudboy)

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RE: Democrats subjected TEA party applications to Polit... - 7/19/2013 8:40:17 PM

JeffBC

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux
Jeff - I have to congratulate you. I don't agree with anyone on the left. But I respect anyone that says... this law was broken - and any party (or person) that breaks it gets prosecuted.

Thanks. But honestly I'm not on "the left" in the way you mean it. I don't think there is a label for me in American politics. Back when politics was sane I used to describe myself as a fiscal conservative and a social liberal. Nowadays? Nowadays I both parties are corporatists and their agendas are both illegal and reprehensible. In all of the Federal govt. I can name maybe 5 names that are not reprehensible... some democrats and some republicans.

That's partly why I'm not in the US anymore. The "pinko liberal commie" was me poking fun at myself because the party I last identified with was democrat.

_____________________________

I'm a lover of "what is", not because I'm a spiritual person, but because it hurts when I argue with reality. -- Bryon Katie
"You're humbly arrogant" -- sunshinemiss
officially a member of the K Crowd

(in reply to Phydeaux)

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RE: Democrats subjected TEA party applications to Polit... - 7/19/2013 8:42:59 PM

JeffBC

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quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy
I Agree with JEFF (partially) -- with Republicans its Game of Thrones (getting power -- giving out favors) and its not about the public interest whatsoever. (We don't agree on the Democrats b/c I'm less cynical about them.)

Obama's ever expanding surveillance state and his claim to be able to circumvent due process are enough for me to be more than a tad cynical. I'd go all the way to "downright evil".

_____________________________

I'm a lover of "what is", not because I'm a spiritual person, but because it hurts when I argue with reality. -- Bryon Katie
"You're humbly arrogant" -- sunshinemiss
officially a member of the K Crowd

(in reply to cloudboy)

Post #: 13

RE: Democrats subjected TEA party applications to Polit... - 7/19/2013 8:49:02 PM

DaddySatyr

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I keep thinking that if (and I know it's a big "if") somehow we were to find out that NSA spying on US citizens had anything to do with this ... That would be TOO perfect!

Anyway, I kind of believed that somehow, there would at least be a claim that the scandal went a little further up the food chain than Ms. Lerner and I definitely believed that the claims of "Liberal groups were targetted too" were just so much chin music.

Now, it's still a claim but if the WSJ article is to be believed, I think a special prosecutor is definitely in order.

I agree with Phydeaux and Jeff on these two things (If I'm interpretting them, correctly):

This is starting to reak of Watergate-type stuff (although two different government agencies were used)

and ...

If there is a special prosecutor, I hope it's someone that is going to do the job without getting involved in all the peripheral bullshit.

Peace and comfort,

Michael

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RE: Democrats subjected TEA party applications to Polit... - 7/19/2013 8:53:18 PM

cloudboy

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quote:

How is it *less* sexy

I think the proper term is MUCH ADO ABOUT NOTHING. Like Benghazi, this story only has legs with Fox News and the right wing nut jobs looking to score points and sully the President. It has very little to do with safeguarding the public interest.

USA Today represents the "the man on the street," business travelers and tourists. It offers a reliable, sensible, centrist viewpoint. In a year from now, you'll have forgotten about the IRS scandal and will be looking to spin something else up into a case for impeachment.

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RE: Democrats subjected TEA party applications to Polit... - 7/19/2013 9:00:43 PM

JeffBC

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr
I keep thinking that if (and I know it's a big "if") somehow we were to find out that NSA spying on US citizens had anything to do with this ... That would be TOO perfect!

In a sense, it does. There isn't any question of motive there. They, quite reasonably, think that if they've recorded all of reality (or as much as they can manage) then when they need to know something they'll be able to dig into their mound of data and find it. What the NSA is doing has to do with everything and nothing. They are just treasonously curious. Although honestly, consider how many politicians know that mountain of data is there and how many ways it could be misused and... well... I'd be utterly astonished if it's not already being misused in some really interesting ways. I just doubt this way.

quote:

This is starting to reak of Watergate-type stuff (although two different government agencies were used)

Yup. I just don't see any way to avoid the circus and honestly, in the grand scheme of things is hardly matters. What Obama is doing nowadays makes Nixon's little antics look like jaywalking (and yes, Bush too... it just happens to be Obama today).

_____________________________

I'm a lover of "what is", not because I'm a spiritual person, but because it hurts when I argue with reality. -- Bryon Katie
"You're humbly arrogant" -- sunshinemiss
officially a member of the K Crowd

(in reply to DaddySatyr)

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RE: Democrats subjected TEA party applications to Polit... - 7/19/2013 9:35:52 PM

DaddySatyr

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quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffBC

Yup. I just don't see any way to avoid the circus and honestly, in the grand scheme of things is hardly matters. What Obama is doing nowadays makes Nixon's little antics look like jaywalking (and yes, Bush too... it just happens to be Obama today).

I don't know if Watergate was like Jay-walking. I remember that time as being a time of extreme discord in many ways in the country and Nixon, using the power of the highest office in the land to help him neutralize those on his "Enemies List" is very parallel (I think) to what is going on, today; possibly even more so because it would appear that high-ranking officials in the IRS were trying to influence an election by ... wait for it ... a very egregious example of voter fraud ie; not allowing the opposition to exercise their right to voice their opposition.

I guess requiring people to prove they're legally eligible to vote is repugnant but targetting the ability of the opposition to mobilize the vote is okay.

It's a convoluted world we're living in.

Peace and comfort,

Michael

_____________________________

A Stone in My Shoe

Screen captures (and pissing on shadows) still RULE! Ya feel me?

"For that which I love, I will do horrible things"

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RE: Democrats subjected TEA party applications to Polit... - 7/19/2013 9:42:49 PM

JeffBC

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr
I don't know if Watergate was like Jay-walking. I remember that time as being a time of extreme discord in many ways in the country and Nixon, using the power of the highest office in the land to help him neutralize those on his "Enemies List" is very parallel (I think) to what is going on, today; possibly even more so because it would appear that high-ranking officials in the IRS were trying to influence an election by ... wait for it ... a very egregious example of voter fraud ie; not allowing the opposition to exercise their right to voice their opposition.

I agree with all of that. I just think Obama has way bigger crimes to pay for than that even if it all turns out to be true. I'd like to discuss some things about "due process" and "domestic surveillance" among other things. We could talk about suppression of whistle blowers and a raft of other things. Vote rigging sort of pales in comparison in my mind.

_____________________________

I'm a lover of "what is", not because I'm a spiritual person, but because it hurts when I argue with reality. -- Bryon Katie
"You're humbly arrogant" -- sunshinemiss
officially a member of the K Crowd

(in reply to DaddySatyr)

Post #: 18

RE: Democrats subjected TEA party applications to Polit... - 7/19/2013 9:46:29 PM

DaddySatyr

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quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffBC

quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr
I don't know if Watergate was like Jay-walking. I remember that time as being a time of extreme discord in many ways in the country and Nixon, using the power of the highest office in the land to help him neutralize those on his "Enemies List" is very parallel (I think) to what is going on, today; possibly even more so because it would appear that high-ranking officials in the IRS were trying to influence an election by ... wait for it ... a very egregious example of voter fraud ie; not allowing the opposition to exercise their right to voice their opposition.

I agree with all of that. I just think Obama has way bigger crimes to pay for than that even if it all turns out to be true. I'd like to discuss some things about "due process" and "domestic surveillance" among other things. We could talk about suppression of whistle blowers and a raft of other things. Vote rigging sort of pales in comparison in my mind.

I think this deserves its own thread. You up for it?

< Message edited by DaddySatyr -- 7/19/2013 9:47:43 PM >

_____________________________

A Stone in My Shoe

Screen captures (and pissing on shadows) still RULE! Ya feel me?

"For that which I love, I will do horrible things"

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RE: Democrats subjected TEA party applications to Polit... - 7/19/2013 10:30:24 PM

njlauren

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kana

The WSJ has an interesting article re this.
Not taking sides, just posting the link for public consumption

This is an op ed from Peggy Noonan, a GOP die hard, in the Wall Street Journal, which is owned by Rupert Murdoch and whose editorial page is basically Fox News on steroids. If this was a WSJ investigative report, I would give it credence, because Murdoch hasn't dared mess with that, because the Journal would go from being a respected business journal to being the land of right wing talk radio, Rush limbaugh followers and "real americans" *snort*.

The GOP is desperate, the economy is recovering, and they look like a bunch of horse's asses these days, thanks to the tea party and the hard right wing nutjobs running the party. Other than angry older white people, especially from the south and midwest, the GOP is becoming seen more and more as the party of loons and crackpots, and this is one of the reason's why. Among other things, the continual claim that liberal groups weren't targeted is false, and saying that most of the groups targeted were right wing also fails to mention that by some large margin, like 80% to 20%, groups filing for 501c4 status are right wing, so given that ration, it is not surprising more conservative groups were targeted, because there are a lot more of them filing.

(in reply to Kana)

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