On the topic of honesty (Full Version)

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Fastergirl -> On the topic of honesty (7/26/2013 9:21:17 AM)

So I understand that a slave must be completely honest with her owner. How honest should the owner be? God, that sounds vague. Assume the owner is for real, not scamming, serious about the relationship, etc. What kind of information, as an owner or master, would you not share with your slave?

Thanks for your input.



OsideGirl -> RE: On the topic of honesty (7/26/2013 9:30:00 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Fastergirl
What kind of information, as an owner or master, would you not share with your slave?


There are things he doesn't tell me because they're just normal day to day things that he doesn't want me to worry about it. ie: thought he paid the water bill and didn't.

But, he doesn't withhold things that affect our relationship. That's lying by omission and it's not tolerated in our relationship. We believe that communication is what makes a relationship work.

And lastly, just because someone has proclaimed themselves to be Dominant does not mean that they get a free pass on honesty, integrity and ethics.



ChatteParfaitt -> RE: On the topic of honesty (7/26/2013 9:37:28 AM)

I'm one who believes both must be honest for any relationship to work. Lying is destructive, and yes that includes lies of omission.

There are 'dominants' who think that they don't have to share important information like who else they are seeing, considering, having sex with, etc. There are those who expect emotional transparency without giving it. Sorry, that never works for long.

It sounds like you and your master need to have a long talk.

If he refuses to talk abut this, even though you've asked him in a respectful way, it's my opinion you have some answers, just not the ones you wanted.






Fastergirl -> RE: On the topic of honesty (7/26/2013 9:53:54 AM)

thank you both for your response. that's been my thoughts on it too. I guess I needed some confirmation of that.

I know we need to talk and hopefully we will be able to do so soon. Right now, I can't think more than a couple of seconds about ending it. Hopefully I'm assuming the worst to try and prepare myself for it (as if that ever works. lol) and I'm just letting my insecurity about my current vanilla life flow over.



LadyPact -> RE: On the topic of honesty (7/26/2013 10:24:54 AM)

Just for a different angle. I'm a poly person. That means that I have multiple relationships. Not everything that happens within those relationships are appropriate for 'common knowledge'. There are certain items between My husband and I that are absolutely none of My sub's business. MP and I are a couple over and above any D/s dynamic that I have, so conversations between him and I on topics like finances or household decisions aren't the business of My sub whatsoever. Even if it's just a matter of intimacy between My husband and I, that's not especially something that is going to be talked about with My sub, either.

As far as basing information that is within the dynamic itself, there absolutely have been times that I've had information regarding a subject from other sources that I don't necessarily reveal. I don't justify all reasons on every issue where it's an obedience area. If I tell a sub that I don't want him doing a certain thing, such as rearranging drawers that contain personal items, should I really have to answer to the sub when they want to question Me on it or is it enough for Me to say that I don't want them to do that and for them to obey?



NuevaVida -> RE: On the topic of honesty (7/26/2013 10:43:30 AM)

We are open books to each other, it's what's healthiest for both of us. I grinned at Oside's comment because just this morning he was saying he thinks there's a problem with the water bill lol.

He did the omission thing once in the very very beginning and it ended up haunting us for four years. Over time we have both realized there isn't anything we can't share with each other, but that kind of trust takes time.

We both find dishonesty to be highly toxic.



Fastergirl -> RE: On the topic of honesty (7/26/2013 10:45:57 AM)

I agree with you completely. I don't require an explanation of everything. I don't want it. not my role. I guess i'm dealing with a guy that holds his cards close to his chest as a matter of course and sometimes, i find it hard to accept regarding feelings or thoughts as they relate to the relationship. Sometimes the silence can make me very insecure and act in ways that I don't even like but don't seem to be able to control at a certain point. and since it's still long distance (something i NEVER wanted) there are gaps in communication, discipline, and punishments. It's difficult to live a big part of my life in vanilla land and then a smaller but much more important and meaningful part of my life where I really want to be full time. sigh.



myotherself -> RE: On the topic of honesty (7/26/2013 10:49:26 AM)

I'm going to stick my neck out here and say forget the Owner/property thing for a moment. Assuming you are in a relationship with this person, then the question should be 'should a man be honest with his partner'.

I'm in an M/s relationship and we are both honest with each other. He tells me when he's had a crappy day, if he's thinking of buying those trousers and whether we can afford to go out to eat. I do exactly the same in return.

If I even thought he was considering another person in our relationship, then I would ask him for a talk and then we'd discuss it honestly. Thankfully he and I are monogamous and that sort of thing should never arise, but if it did I'd forget the M/s and concentrate on 'us' instead.

Good luck in sorting out whatever it is!



AthenaSurrenders -> RE: On the topic of honesty (7/26/2013 10:50:38 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

Just for a different angle. I'm a poly person. That means that I have multiple relationships. Not everything that happens within those relationships are appropriate for 'common knowledge'. There are certain items between My husband and I that are absolutely none of My sub's business. MP and I are a couple over and above any D/s dynamic that I have, so conversations between him and I on topics like finances or household decisions aren't the business of My sub whatsoever. Even if it's just a matter of intimacy between My husband and I, that's not especially something that is going to be talked about with My sub, either.

As far as basing information that is within the dynamic itself, there absolutely have been times that I've had information regarding a subject from other sources that I don't necessarily reveal. I don't justify all reasons on every issue where it's an obedience area. If I tell a sub that I don't want him doing a certain thing, such as rearranging drawers that contain personal items, should I really have to answer to the sub when they want to question Me on it or is it enough for Me to say that I don't want them to do that and for them to obey?



This is interesting. I was about to jump in and repeat the 'total honesty on all sides' thing but you make a good point.

I feel like I know the difference between your example and anything I would call dishonesty and lack of transparency, but I'm not sure I can define the line between the two.

I think it comes down to deliberately hiding something that you know would hurt the other person or affect the way they thought of the relationship. It's unlikely that the contents of your knicker drawer are something which pose a risk to your sub or your dynamic.

I'm not a jealous person. If my husband was texting a female friend it wouldn't concern me, and hence it wouldn't be dishonest if he didn't tell me about it - I'd just assume it was one of those low-importance moments that just didn't come up in conversation. On the other hand, if he's going to great lengths to hide every text, keep his phone locked away, sneak outside to take phone calls etc - then he obviously thinks something in the conversation would be hurtful and it become dishonest. (Not the best example, because that obviously raises issues of jealousy levels, but the best I could think of).

It can also be a deal-breaker if the dishonesty is for 'noble' intentions. If he was diagnosed with cancer and decided not to tell me in an attempt to protect me, I'd be furious. It's absolutely something I would need to know and come to terms with, it will affect our home life etc.

Generally we tend to err on the side of sharing everything - we're a very dull couple, that happens when you live and work together! But if he's deliberately keeping something from me, it'd better turn out to be a lovely surprise or it will make me question our trust.

I guess it doesn't matter exactly where the line is drawn, but rather that you both agree on what does and doesn't need to be shared. Otherwise the inevitable result is one partner feeling insecure and uneasy, and once trust is gone, how can you trust a dominant to make any decisions for you?



OsideGirl -> RE: On the topic of honesty (7/26/2013 11:05:08 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: AthenaSurrenders

I think it comes down to deliberately hiding something that you know would hurt the other person or affect the way they thought of the relationship. It's unlikely that the contents of your knicker drawer are something which pose a risk to your sub or your dynamic.


I think that's the crux of matter for me, too.

My view is that it's what affects my relationship. In LP's case, what is happening between LP and her husband really has very little to do with what is going on between LP and her submissive.



DarkSteven -> RE: On the topic of honesty (7/26/2013 11:08:02 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Fastergirl

I agree with you completely. I don't require an explanation of everything. I don't want it. not my role. I guess i'm dealing with a guy that holds his cards close to his chest as a matter of course and sometimes, i find it hard to accept regarding feelings or thoughts as they relate to the relationship. Sometimes the silence can make me very insecure and act in ways that I don't even like but don't seem to be able to control at a certain point. and since it's still long distance (something i NEVER wanted) there are gaps in communication, discipline, and punishments. It's difficult to live a big part of my life in vanilla land and then a smaller but much more important and meaningful part of my life where I really want to be full time. sigh.


Sorry. You signed up for this with a LDR.

Your question is hard to interpret. A lot of women here have run across men who are married, withhold the fact that they have addictions, etc. Major stuff.

If he's simply not sharing feelings, that's entirely ethical. It's just a matter of styles. Sounds like you both may have some adjusting ahead of you. It'll take longer if it's a LDR.



Fastergirl -> RE: On the topic of honesty (7/26/2013 11:20:19 AM)

yes, it's the emotional stuff. hopefully it won't be an ldr much longer. I guess 10+ years of therapy makes me more open and probably expect the same of others and especially someone as important as him. I've learned how to identify and express my feelings pretty accurately and pretty fast. and i'm pretty sure most men aren't exactly thrilled with that all the time. lol

Yes the LDR thing is massively ridiculous but I was very clear in my head of the type of man I wanted and with a lot of detail and then he came along and in nearly every way. threw me for a big loop.

I'm also in a crappy place because I lost yet another job - it's been an exceedingly awful year and half for me on that issue. So I"m hypersensitive about a lot and have WAY too much time to think about this. ugh. lol



SailingBum -> RE: On the topic of honesty (7/26/2013 11:29:36 AM)

Yep Yep LDR puts a whole different spin on this as you can never tell if they are in fact lying or telling the truth. My advice would be to proceed slowly and cautiously. My experience has been for every 1 great LDR stories I've heard... I've heard 100 "horror stories". Perhaps other poster can chime in on their horror stories ratios. I hope everything works out for the best.

BadOne



Fastergirl -> RE: On the topic of honesty (7/26/2013 11:32:03 AM)

no, i'm not concerned with outright lies. he's not and hasn't ever. My question is about being transparent.



SailingBum -> RE: On the topic of honesty (7/26/2013 12:04:21 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Fastergirl

no, i'm not concerned with outright lies. he's not and hasn't ever. My question is about being transparent.



I'm thinking Semantics. Not being transparent, to me really really close to lying. YMMV

BadOne



Fastergirl -> RE: On the topic of honesty (7/26/2013 12:15:45 PM)

i totally understand how you think that and would agree if i were reading this as someone else's post. it's difficult for me to fully explain my situation as it's not my place to do so. But the responses I've gotten have been helpful for me to get some confirmation and different viewpoints on the subject.



DesFIP -> RE: On the topic of honesty (7/26/2013 1:31:52 PM)

Depends on the relationship.

Some subs are fine being kept in the dark. Others need equal transparency.

What do you need? And don't settle for less than that.

I need equal transparency in order to feel safe being open and vulnerable to him. So I picked a guy who likes being totally open and emotionally intimate. If you get off feeling like a lowly slave with no rights who just gets ordered about, then someone like The Man wouldn't be a good partner for you.

If you do need equal transparency, then don't pick a guy who likes to feel like the Lord and Master of the relationship who can do whatever he wants without any consequence.

If we're talking about entering into a relationship, he needs to be sufficiently transparent that you will be sure he isn't cheating on his wife, that he isn't actually 30 years older than he claims online, and so on. That's if you're hoping to meet. If it's online only, then it's up to you to decide if you feel online is cheating or not.

Now, having also done a lot of therapy, I find that I'm not compatible with someone who hasn't had any. Because of these kinds of things.



Fastergirl -> RE: On the topic of honesty (7/26/2013 1:38:52 PM)

oh we've met and spent time together. that's why i know he isn't lying about that sort of stuff. I'm not concerned with him lying at all. i think I'm like you, i need the same sort of transparency from someone that i share, or at least close to that. but i've also found in previous relationships that some people take longer to share that sort of stuff because of hurts they've experienced in their past from sharing a lot. And some people simply take longer to let them feel that close to someone. I am very confident in my ability to 'read' people and am very clear on what i want so i have been able to throw caution in the wind pretty quick. but i've always been like that. ;)

thanks everyone. :)



SimplyMichael -> RE: On the topic of honesty (7/26/2013 2:15:50 PM)

I am completely honest about everything but the fact that I am married, have advanced stage syphilis, and have a mob hit out on me.



areallivehuman -> RE: On the topic of honesty (7/26/2013 2:25:27 PM)

It is said that every man has three faces, one he shows the world, one he shows those he loves, one he keeps forever hidden.



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