More Liberal Democrat Government Please! (Full Version)

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Phydeaux -> More Liberal Democrat Government Please! (7/26/2013 2:59:32 PM)

In Horne v. Department of Agriculture, a decision issued in June, the justices unanimously rejected the Obama administration's argument that raisin farmers did not have the right to go to court to contest the seizure of hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of raisins. The Fifth Amendment states that the government must pay "just compensation" whenever the government takes private property for "public use." But the administration claimed that farmers could not even raise the takings issue in court without first enduring lengthy delays and paying a $483,000 fine.

I could post a post daily about government abuse and never scratch the surface.
Cut the federal government....




Yachtie -> RE: More Liberal Democrat Government Please! (7/26/2013 3:11:36 PM)

Link to case.





Phydeaux -> RE: More Liberal Democrat Government Please! (7/26/2013 3:15:11 PM)

http://www.scotusblog.com/case-files/cases/horne-v-department-of-agriculture/




mnottertail -> RE: More Liberal Democrat Government Please! (7/26/2013 4:04:58 PM)

.................reserve.
On April 1, 2004, the Administrator of the Agriculture
Marketing Service (Administrator) initiated an enforcement action against the Hornes, Raisin Valley Farms, and
Lassen Vineyards (petitioners). The complaint alleged
that petitioners were “handlers” of California raisins
during the 2002–2003 and 2003–2004 crop years. It also
alleged that petitioners violated the AMAA and the Marketing Order by submitting inaccurate forms to the RAC
and failing to hold inspections of incoming raisins, retain
raisins in reserve, pay assessments, and allow access to
their records. Petitioners denied the allegations, countering that they were not “handlers” and asserting that they
did not acquire physical possession of the other producers’
raisins within the meaning of the regulations. Petitioners also raised several affirmative defenses, including a
claim that the Marketing Order violated the Fifth Amendment’s prohibition against taking property without just
compensation.
An Administrative Law Judge (ALJ) concluded in 2006
that petitioners were handlers of raisins and thus subject
to the Marketing Order. The ALJ also concluded . . . . .yadda yadda yadda.


Unless I am missing a whole lot more, (which I ain't....) the nutsuckers in the W administration per usual for nutsuckers were unable to read the law and won with their packed nutsucker courts and then blamed it on Obama, so apparently they were against this before they were for it?



Clipped from the opinion, but the holding and the opinion never spoke to anything regarding paying fines first and suing later.




DomKen -> RE: More Liberal Democrat Government Please! (7/26/2013 4:05:51 PM)

You guys know the raisin growers won right? They don't have to pay the fine etc.




tazzygirl -> RE: More Liberal Democrat Government Please! (7/26/2013 4:36:14 PM)

You just had to spoil my fun here [8D]




tj444 -> RE: More Liberal Democrat Government Please! (7/26/2013 4:45:33 PM)

I will never look at another raisin the same way.. or take the dried chewy bits of sunshine for granted again.. [;)]




Termyn8or -> RE: More Liberal Democrat Government Please! (7/26/2013 6:16:44 PM)

Raisins are fucking gross.

The federal government holds that you are under their jurisdiction if you grow anything that is grown anywhere that COULD be sold across state lines, or not. Now with the EU fucking with countries that ban Monsanto's frankenfoods, Europeans are discovering for themselves how wonderful a remote centralized government can be.

And find your own fucking links if you want them - you know who you are. (is that better ?)

T^T




Real0ne -> RE: More Liberal Democrat Government Please! (7/26/2013 6:24:41 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

Clipped from the opinion, but the holding and the opinion never spoke to anything regarding paying fines first and suing later.




no there is another issue here and he is right on point!

do I really need to explain how local gub works?

If you leave your lawn grow higher than what the city allows they will come out and write you up.

The only way you stand a snowballs chance in hell of winning is to sue the second you get their notice but thats another topic.

That fine ticker starts running, you have been CHARGED AND JUDGED GUILTY AND FORCED TO PAY up front PRIOR TO ANY JUDICIAL HEARING, not a fucking administrative hearing from some city corporate thug greasing his own pocket, but the COUNTY not muni court who also has an interest but not quite so much, so at least your snowball gets a paper overcoat.

Do you have any idea what the violation is? That has become standard procedure throughout the US? Do ya huh?




Real0ne -> RE: More Liberal Democrat Government Please! (7/26/2013 6:29:38 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux

Cut the federal government....



Nope, (sorta), Long term yeh, in many cases you will find that the federal gub tramples on states rights in your favor! Can you believe that? Look up 1983, its pretty broad.

Its all gub man! The state to the individual is far more encroaching on the the you or I than the feds ever will be on the states.

Government has literally claimed all rights known ot man and the only way you get any is to fight them tooth and nail and go broke in the process even if you know how to litigate the matters yourself.

They are the best organized extortion racket I have seen to date. Make the mob look micro and they dont have to kill as many people (at least within the US) to do it.



oops orwell -1, 1983


http://www.constitution.org/brief/forsythe_42-1983.htm


A GUIDE TO CIVIL RIGHTS LIABILITY UNDER 42 U.S.C. § 1983:

AN OVERVIEW OF SUPREME COURT AND ELEVENTH CIRCUIT PRECEDENT

IAN D. FORSYTHE


I. INTRODUCTION AND HISTORY

42 U.S.C. § 1983, commonly referred to as "section 1983" provides:

Every person who under color of any statute, ordinance, regulation, custom, or usage, of any State or Territory or the District of Columbia, subjects, or causes to be subjected, any citizen of the United States or other person within the jurisdiction thereof to the deprivation of any rights, privileges, or immunities secured by the Constitution and laws, shall be liable to the party injured in an action at law, Suit in equity, or other proper proceeding for redress, except that in any action brought against a judicial officer for an act or omission taken in such officer's judicial capacity, injunctive relief shall not be granted unless a declaratory decree was violated or declaratory relief was unavailable. For the purposes of this section, any Act of Congress applicable exclusively to the District of Columbia shall be considered to be a statute of the District of Columbia.

Now that sounds easy on its face but its not.

One good thing however is that its in black and white so all these loony gubbermint apologist armchair attorneys cant stand here and try to convince those who are uninformed or have never successfully argued a case in court that any damn thing in print [ Every person who under color of any statute, ordinance, regulation, custom, or usage, of any State or Territory ] IS DA JUDGE DREDD LAW


42 U.S.C. � 1983 (emphasis added).

Section 1983 was enacted on April 20, 1871 as part of the Civil Rights Act of 1871, and is also known as the "Ku Klux Klan Act" because one of its primary purposes was to provide a civil remedy against the abuses that were being committed in the southern states, especially by the Ku Klux Klan. While the existing law protected all citizens in theory, its protection in practice was unavailable to some because those persons charged with the enforcement of the laws were unable or unwilling to do so.[1] The Act was intended to provide a private remedy for such violations of federal law, and has subsequently been interpreted to create a species of tort liability.[2]

The number of cases that have been brought under section 1983 has dramatically increased since 1961 when the Supreme Court decided Monroe v. Pape.[3] In Monroe, the Supreme Court held that a police officer was acting "under color of state law" even though his actions violated state law.[4] This was the first case in which the Supreme Court allowed liability to attach where a government official acted outside the scope of the authority granted to him by state law. Since Monroe v. Pape was decided, an extensive body of law has developed to govern section 1983 claims. This article is intended to provide an overview of that extensive body of law, and will include seminal precedent from the United States Supreme Court and the Eleventh Circuit Court of Appeals--a comprehensive study of all law related to section 1983 is beyond the scope of this article.

II. ELEMENTS OF A SECTION 1983 CLAIM



http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/42/chapter-21/subchapter-I

which of course opens a HUGE can of worms as to the distinction between a law and "color" of law.




graceadieu -> RE: More Liberal Democrat Government Please! (7/26/2013 8:26:38 PM)

Got into a discussion about this case before, so here's the background:

Back in the 40s, the farm lobby in California got the government to help them to artificially raise raisin crop prices by restricting supply. How that works is that a council of raisin farmers, overseen by the USDA, decides how much of the year's crop can be sold on the US market in order to maximize profit, and the rest is sold at a low price to the federal government or overseas.

However, this price-fixing scheme only works if all the raisin farmers play ball. Farmers that don't, and risk ruining the scheme for everyone else, are subject to fines to keep them in line. The farm involved in the lawsuit is one of the guys that didn't play ball - they sold all their crop at the artifically high price that only exists because other farmers didn't sell all of their crop.

If it tells you anything, Sun-maid filed on the side of the government.




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