RE: Can a Muslim Scholar Write About Christianity? (Full Version)

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DaddySatyr -> RE: Can a Muslim Scholar Write About Christianity? (7/29/2013 10:49:58 PM)

Well, the man certainly has the credentials from academia. So, if you put stock in that, he seems qualified.

From reading the article, the man was once a Christian and has converted back to the "Faith of his Fathers". I can appreciate that and will read his book (with the appropriate grain of salt due to someone who is no longer a part of the group about which they're writing.).

I think his views are valid (in some aspects just because they're his) based upon his book learnin' and real life experience.



Good luck,



Bob Dylan



Marini -> RE: Can a Muslim Scholar Write About Christianity? (7/29/2013 10:53:30 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

FR

I haven't read shit in here but it occurred to me that you are all arguing whether what - "Can a Muslim Scholar Write About Christianity?".

The fact is, he just did.

T^T


Great answer!
Fact is we all discuss and write about issues all the time, that I don't think anyone here is an expert on.
In fact, I see "experts" disagreeing with each other, all the time.

He did write the book, so it looks like he can.




MrBukani -> RE: Can a Muslim Scholar Write About Christianity? (7/29/2013 10:54:49 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53


quote:

ORIGINAL: Powergamz1

Ahhh yes, that StormFront meme again... call minorities racist at every chance.

And that has what to do with the thread topic?



I think you will find you introduced race into the thread, no one else.


I thought you always played the racecard[:D]



Kirata -> RE: Can a Muslim Scholar Write About Christianity? (7/30/2013 5:39:18 AM)


~ FR ~

While Ms. Green rather obviously took offense at Aslan's book, approached the interview with a chip on her shoulder, and behaved in a rude and indefensible way, there is something to be said for casting a jaundiced eye upon it.

Aslan is best known for his earlier work, "No god but God: The Origins, Evolution, and Future of Islam," in which he glorifies the Medina verses and dismisses Islam's excesses by attributing them to "misinterpretation" and a reaction to "Western Imperialism."

Imagine, if you will, an author who writes a Christian apologetic that makes its centerpeice the Sermon on the Mount and attributes the Spanish Inquisition to "misinterpretation" and a reaction to the Muslim conquest of Spain. If that same author, who of course only just "happens" to be Christian, next writes a book portraying the prophet Mohammed as a pedophiliac liar who suffered hallucinations, would you need a map? It would be slammed as a hatchet job, and "Zealot" is no different.

Christ was about as far from being a zealot as you can possibly get, and manifestly not imbued with "a fervent nationalism that made resistance to the Roman occupation a sacred duty incumbent on all Jews."

Aslan holds no doctorates in either history or religion. He teaches Creative Writing, and "Zealot" is right up his alley. Fortunately, neither the Roman Pontiff nor the Archbishop of Canterbury are likely to issue a "fatwa" calling for his death, and we will not be troubled by hordes of frothing Christians raging at the insult to their Christ.

K.



Powergamz1 -> RE: Can a Muslim Scholar Write About Christianity? (7/30/2013 6:09:23 AM)

And Isaac Asimov held no doctorates in literature, physics, or math, that isn't the way that academic research works.



quote]ORIGINAL: Kirata


~ FR ~

While Ms. Green rather obviously took offense at Aslan's book, approached the interview with a chip on her shoulder, and behaved in a rude and indefensible way, there is something to be said for casting a jaundiced eye upon it.

Aslan is best known for his earlier work, "No god but God: The Origins, Evolution, and Future of Islam," in which he glorifies the Medina verses and dismisses Islam's excesses by attributing them to "misinterpretation" and "Western Imperialism."

Imagine, if you will, an author who writes a Christian apologetic that makes its centerpeice the Sermon on the Mount and attributes the Spanish Inquisition to "misinterpretation" and the Muslim conquest of Spain. If that the same author, who of course only just "happens" to be Christian, next writes a book portraying the prophet Mohammed as a pedophiliac liar who suffered hallucinations, would you need a map?

It would be slammed as a hatchet job, and that "Zealot" is no different is obvious from its title. Christ was about as far from being a zealot as you can get, and manifestly not imbued with "a fervent nationalism that made resistance to the Roman occupation a sacred duty incumbent on all Jews."

Aslan holds no doctorates in either history or religion. He teaches Creative Writing, and "Zealot" is right up his alley. Fortunately, however, neither the Roman Pontiff nor the Archbishop of Canterbury are likely to issue a "fatwa" calling for his death, and aside from Ms. Green we will not be troubled by hordes of frothing Christians raging at the insult to their Christ.

K.
[/quote]



Kirata -> RE: Can a Muslim Scholar Write About Christianity? (7/30/2013 6:34:15 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Powergamz1

Isaac Asimov held no doctorates in literature, physics, or math, that isn't the way that academic research works.

And comparing Reza Aslan to Isaac Asimov is not how rational thinking works.

K.



Powergamz1 -> RE: Can a Muslim Scholar Write About Christianity? (7/30/2013 8:19:21 AM)

Nice strawman. I compared the bar you set for him, not him personally.

There is no requirement in academic research that certain words be spelled out on your diploma, that's something you just made up.

Linus Pauling had no education whatsoever in international relations, yet his second Nobel Prize was for just that.
The former head of the American Society of Criminology, John Hagan was a Canadian, with no degrees in Criminology, yet he published extensively on American crime. And Asimov wrote exhaustively on subjects unrelated to his biochemistry doctorate.

Now if you've got information that this author plagiarized, falsified his attributions, etc. bring them forward into the light.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: Powergamz1

Isaac Asimov held no doctorates in literature, physics, or math, that isn't the way that academic research works.

And comparing Reza Aslan to Isaac Asimov is not how rational thinking works.

K.




thishereboi -> RE: Can a Muslim Scholar Write About Christianity? (7/30/2013 11:00:39 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

Any one who is Muslim is automatically guilty of ... something serious. They remain guilty until proven other wise.

To a bigot, yes. Those who are not understand that is bullshit.

This seems to be a persistent theme in certain Right wing quarters in the US. It is parroted by the looney Right here in Australia, and from what I can see, the same applies in the UK too. It even rocks up here on CM, as a glance at some of the more rabid Right wing posts at the "Why Arabs Dislike the US' thread will confirm. Islamophobia has reached stratospheric levels among the poor misguided folk of the looney Right and the Zionists they support so fanatically.

It happens on both sides. Trying to make it into a right vs left conflict just muddies the waters and make you look biased.

Whatever happened to free speech? Surely that means that any one can write about anything they want. This particular author seems to possess perfectly acceptable academic credentials to tackle the subject he has chosen. Even if he had no academic credentials, that doesn't disqualify him in any way from writing whatever he likes about any topic he pleases.

I agree he should be able to write about anything his little heart desires. And if someone else questions something about the book they also have the freedom to ask questions about it.

Any one can allege bias by any given author in their treatment of their subject. Any such allegation requires evidence from the text itself to substantiate it. Unless one can justify a case for bias from the text itself, and not solely on the author's real or suspected beliefs, it is difficult to see how the author's personal beliefs necessarily imply bias. Without supporting evidence from the text, allegations of bias are usually without merit.

Books should be considered on their merits. Authors too should be considered on their merits ie. the merits of the texts they produce. The insinuations of bias by the no doubt supremely uncredentialed, far-from-impartial folks at Fox tell us more about their own voluminous set of prejudices than any thing else.

Why do you watch it if you hate it so much?




Fightdirecto -> RE: Can a Muslim Scholar Write About Christianity? (7/30/2013 2:39:08 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi
Why do you watch it if you hate it so much?

KNOW YOUR ENEMY!!! - the best reason to watch Fox and the Right-Wing Media cartel, since they are the enemy of the United States and all that it stands for.



dcnovice -> RE: Can a Muslim Scholar Write About Christianity? (7/30/2013 3:31:13 PM)

FR

Interesting and largely positive review of the book:

http://www.newrepublic.com/article/114079/reza-aslan-jesus-biography-zealot-reviewed-adam-kirsch



Politesub53 -> RE: Can a Muslim Scholar Write About Christianity? (7/30/2013 4:27:03 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi


quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53


quote:

ORIGINAL: Powergamz1

Ahhh yes, that StormFront meme again... call minorities racist at every chance.

And that has what to do with the thread topic?



I think you will find you introduced race into the thread, no one else.



It was first mentioned in post !4, perhaps you missed it.



Perhaps I missed it because it isnt fucking there........ Dont let that stop you though.



Politesub53 -> RE: Can a Muslim Scholar Write About Christianity? (7/30/2013 4:32:49 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Powergamz1

And I think we will find that you are once again making things up to derail a thread.


Ah yes, anyone who questions you is trying to derail the thread or following the Stormfront meme.



deathtothepixies -> RE: Can a Muslim Scholar Write About Christianity? (7/30/2013 4:52:19 PM)



I guess that's CM for you, a small pond of people trying to score points.

Is it not obvious that any educated person has a right to put forward their views?



Kirata -> RE: Can a Muslim Scholar Write About Christianity? (7/30/2013 5:46:17 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

Interesting and largely positive review of the book:

http://www.newrepublic.com/article/114079/reza-aslan-jesus-biography-zealot-reviewed-adam-kirsch

There are views on both sides. Aslan is a Shia who writes from that perspective (the invasion of Iraq was a "liberation").

Reza Aslan is an Iranian-American writer, a Shia by persuasion, and informs us in the prologue to his book that he will be denounced as an apostate by some and an apologist by others, but that the latter does not bother him since "there is no higher calling than to defend one's faith..."

Aslan's account of early Islam is too literalist. The picture presented is that of an ideal Prophet and mostly unworthy successors. Some decades after Muhammad's death the wars of succession led to the birth of the faction (Shia) that insisted on treating Muhammad as more than a simple messenger and demanded that his family alone supplied the caliphs, ie his son-in-law Ali and his heirs. Ali was, without doubt, a sophisticated theorist and leader, but his heirs were weak-willed and easily manipulated.

The Shia sects and some of their more esoteric beliefs have little to do with Islamic theology. An Iranian equivalent of Monty Python's Life of Brian will deconstruct all this one day. Shia mythology (some of it uncritically recycled here) transformed a crude bid for power by Ali's son, Hussain, and his defeat and death at the hands of the Caliph Yazid, into a sacred martyrdom commemorated to this day with an annual display of self-flagellation and blood-spilling.

To his credit he is a moderate, and that is certainly welcome. But he is far from neutral regarding either Islam or Christianity.

Source

K.



Lucylastic -> RE: Can a Muslim Scholar Write About Christianity? (7/30/2013 6:08:10 PM)

but that was his book in 2005?
Not that Tariq Ali is a bad bloke, but its not a view on Aslans latest Zealot book



dcnovice -> RE: Can a Muslim Scholar Write About Christianity? (7/30/2013 6:09:09 PM)

quote:

There are views on both sides.

Of course. I just posted one that caught my attention.

quote:

But he is far from neutral regarding either Islam or Christianity.

Probably not. But then, who is?



Powergamz1 -> RE: Can a Muslim Scholar Write About Christianity? (7/30/2013 6:11:57 PM)

Denial fixes everything, hmmmmmm?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53


quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi


quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53


quote:

ORIGINAL: Powergamz1

Ahhh yes, that StormFront meme again... call minorities racist at every chance.

And that has what to do with the thread topic?



I think you will find you introduced race into the thread, no one else.



It was first mentioned in post !4, perhaps you missed it.



Perhaps I missed it because it isnt fucking there........ Dont let that stop you though.





Powergamz1 -> RE: Can a Muslim Scholar Write About Christianity? (7/30/2013 6:32:18 PM)

Having not been there, I personally can't comment on the sanity (or lack thereof) of the Jesus person.

The 'firebrand Christ' bio is hardly new or exclusive to Muslim authors. And speculative history sells.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


~ FR ~

While Ms. Green rather obviously took offense at Aslan's book, approached the interview with a chip on her shoulder, and behaved in a rude and indefensible way, there is something to be said for casting a jaundiced eye upon it.

Aslan is best known for his earlier work, "No god but God: The Origins, Evolution, and Future of Islam," in which he glorifies the Medina verses and dismisses Islam's excesses by attributing them to "misinterpretation" and a reaction to "Western Imperialism."

Imagine, if you will, an author who writes a Christian apologetic that makes its centerpeice the Sermon on the Mount and attributes the Spanish Inquisition to "misinterpretation" and a reaction to the Muslim conquest of Spain. If that same author, who of course only just "happens" to be Christian, next writes a book portraying the prophet Mohammed as a pedophiliac liar who suffered hallucinations, would you need a map? It would be slammed as a hatchet job, and "Zealot" is no different.

Christ was about as far from being a zealot as you can possibly get, and manifestly not imbued with "a fervent nationalism that made resistance to the Roman occupation a sacred duty incumbent on all Jews."

Aslan holds no doctorates in either history or religion. He teaches Creative Writing, and "Zealot" is right up his alley. Fortunately, neither the Roman Pontiff nor the Archbishop of Canterbury are likely to issue a "fatwa" calling for his death, and we will not be troubled by hordes of frothing Christians raging at the insult to their Christ.

K.




Kirata -> RE: Can a Muslim Scholar Write About Christianity? (7/30/2013 6:37:14 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

Probably not. But then, who is?

Fair enough, but your observation only highlights the disingenuousness inherent in claiming to be an "expert" who "just happens" to be Muslim and portraying Zealot as an exemplar of neutral scholarship.

K.



thishereboi -> RE: Can a Muslim Scholar Write About Christianity? (7/30/2013 6:48:26 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Fightdirecto

quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi
Why do you watch it if you hate it so much?

KNOW YOUR ENEMY!!! - the best reason to watch Fox and the Right-Wing Media cartel, since they are the enemy of the United States and all that it stands for.


Well maybe that is the problem right there. I don't consider them the enemy. I consider some of them to be idiots but that's about it. One of the biggest enemies of the US right now are the political bigots who spread hate with every thought. They are trying to divide the country and that never ends well.



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