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12 Unions now oppose Obamacare - 8/1/2013 10:44:26 PM   
Phydeaux


Posts: 4828
Joined: 1/4/2004
Status: offline 		This doesn't count the ones that have already been granted waivers, either.

Amusingly, the union for the IRS (you know, administrators of the plan) also don't want to be subject to it...

The media spinners keep spinning .. but this bill is going down.
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RE: 12 Unions now oppose Obamacare - 8/2/2013 12:28:33 AM   
RottenJohnny


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Status: offline 		Were you gonna throw us a link to something or are you just submitting the comment?

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RE: 12 Unions now oppose Obamacare - 8/2/2013 9:45:57 AM   
MrRodgers


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Status: offline 		Union for the IRS ?? I guess those employees just might not love Obamacare and along with every other public union out there.

They'd have to give up their very generous, taxpayer-subsidized Cadillac care and be thrust into the pedestrian stew of economy plans out here in the real world.

But then it is about great expectations isn't it ? Maybe they expected Obamacare to be even more than about the best health care regime in the world.

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RE: 12 Unions now oppose Obamacare - 8/2/2013 9:57:51 AM   
tj444


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Status: offline 		yeah.. I watched the IRS dude on tv trying to explain why they were different from everyone else and why they wanted to keep their (much lower cost) plan.. it was rather funny watching the dude squirm like that..

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RE: 12 Unions now oppose Obamacare - 8/2/2013 12:02:51 PM   
papassion


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And the former head of the Democratic Party, Dr. Howard Dean, has come out and said the "panels" that will compensate Doctors were not as advertised and WILL limit care for certain procedures. In other words, Palin was correct about the "death panels."

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RE: 12 Unions now oppose Obamacare - 8/2/2013 12:05:39 PM   
mnottertail


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Status: offline 		Un, no. Death Panels exist today, in the form of insurance employees.

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RE: 12 Unions now oppose Obamacare - 8/2/2013 12:13:05 PM   
Phydeaux


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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

Un, no. Death Panels exist today, in the form of insurance employees.


No.

Every system rations care.

Private systems ration care: you get what you are contractually obligated to.
Obama rations care: you get what the government can afford.

The problem is that as the government gets broker and broker due to entitlements there will be massive pressure to cut costs, by refusing treatment.

We are fast approaching the level of indebtiness equal to Greece. In Greece, there were riots on the streets when they fired public employees. When they stopped subsidies.

Only here, we expect the government to also provide healthcare. What do you suppose the outcome of that will be -- when the government HAS to start cutting costs.

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RE: 12 Unions now oppose Obamacare - 8/2/2013 12:23:33 PM   
mnottertail


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quote:


The problem is that as the government gets broker and broker due to entitlements there will be massive pressure to cut costs, by refusing treatment.


To keep your job in the insurance agency there is and has been massive pressure to cut costs by refusing treatment.

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RE: 12 Unions now oppose Obamacare - 8/2/2013 12:39:49 PM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline 		Isn't it funny how the bigest champions of Obamacare are now seeking ..."waivers" so that "they" don't have to be in it?
I asked two of my brothers, one in the Teamsters, one in the Firefighters Unions if they'd be going on "Obamacare" and they BOTH said exactly the same thing; "Ohhhhh No! We're MORE than happy with our medical and dental plans that we have now!"
Are all the govt. workers in those huge buildings in D.C. going on "Obamacare?"
How about the state dept? Congress? IRS?

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RE: 12 Unions now oppose Obamacare - 8/2/2013 1:01:58 PM   
Edwynn


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers

Union for the IRS ?? I guess those employees just might not love Obamacare and along with every other public union out there.

They'd have to give up their very generous, taxpayer-subsidized Cadillac care and be thrust into the pedestrian stew of economy plans out here in the real world.

But then it is about great expectations isn't it ? Maybe they expected Obamacare to be even more than about the best health care regime in the world.



Define "best," if you would be so kind.

Do you mean "best" as in costing 50% more than the next nearest cost among members of the OECD?

Or, perhaps, "best" as in noticeably less optimum outcomes from the pharma-surgery cartel in the US as compared to most other countries in the 'developed' world?


In terms of cost effectiveness, the US ranks with Mexico, Turkey, etc.


If that means "best" to you, then I think we see the problem here.


Most costly, by far? No question.

Most effective in terms of actually getting the job done properly, or getting what is needed to what society requires?

Massive fail.


But we are to have it that if the ditch diggers and trash collectors can't keep up with the market reality of hedge fund managers and fraudster bank CEOs vying for the same coverage, then f*ck them.

WTF is this, "poor laws 2.1"?

Thanks for explaining (even though you actually didn't) what "best" means, in your world, to the rest of us so succinctly, by not troubling yourself to actually explain it.









< Message edited by Edwynn -- 8/2/2013 1:37:07 PM >

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RE: 12 Unions now oppose Obamacare - 8/2/2013 4:47:46 PM   
RottenJohnny


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Chinese healthcare. Are we closer to this than we think???

http://home.core.com/home/article.php?category=world&article=ec7df3cda05a46568cffbd3a3c3f3fa9

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RE: 12 Unions now oppose Obamacare - 8/2/2013 4:58:01 PM   
tazzygirl


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quote:

ORIGINAL: papassion


And the former head of the Democratic Party, Dr. Howard Dean, has come out and said the "panels" that will compensate Doctors were not as advertised and WILL limit care for certain procedures. In other words, Palin was correct about the "death panels."


Oh ffs....

Under previous and current law, changes to Medicare payment rates and program rules are recommended by MedPAC but require an act of Congress to take effect. The new system grants IPAB the authority to make changes to the Medicare program with the Congress being given the power to overrule the agency's decisions through supermajority vote.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Independent_Payment_Advisory_Board

In other words, Congress, as before, CAN override their recommendations.

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RE: 12 Unions now oppose Obamacare - 8/2/2013 5:54:35 PM   
Edwynn


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quote:

ORIGINAL: RottenJohnny
Chinese healthcare. Are we closer to this than we think???

http://home.core.com/home/article.php?category=world&article=ec7df3cda05a46568cffbd3a3c3f3fa9


We might be already there, or at least soon coming to it.

But in any case, what is being proposed here?

That the Europeans' various HC systems which do the job more effectively, while at significantly lower cost, are to be ignored lest we somehow stumble upon the Chinese system because we are too freaking ignorant to discern the difference?

If that's the case, then let's just allow evolution to take it's course, then.

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RE: 12 Unions now oppose Obamacare - 8/2/2013 5:59:35 PM   
dcnovice


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quote:

ORIGINAL: RottenJohnny


Chinese healthcare. Are we closer to this than we think???

http://home.core.com/home/article.php?category=world&article=ec7df3cda05a46568cffbd3a3c3f3fa9

Oh no, silly. We have the best health-care system on Earth. Or so we've been repeatedly told.

Must confess that during my medical adventures (four hospital stays, surgery, radiation, chemo) so far this year, I've caught myself thinking, "Oh my. If this is the best, what's the runner-up like?"

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