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this topic came up in another thread, so to prevent a s... - 8/3/2013 9:57:42 AM   
jlf1961


Posts: 14840
Joined: 6/10/2008
From: Somewhere Texas
Status: offline 		Electronic surveillance by Law Enforcement such as Cameras, drones, or by tracking the gps in a cell phone has some proponents and protestors.

1) Drones

The only drones available to law enforcement except under special circumstance are just a little larger than a gas powered remote control helicopter, and makes the same amount of noise.

Predator drones are tasked to aid law enforcement only for searching for a criminal wanted for a heinous crime. The most recent case was the ex cop in California that was shooting people.

Otherwise the predators are being used along the Mexican border, which makes sense until you realize that there are not enough border patrol agents to respond to anything the drone might find.

2) Cameras

I am of two minds on these.
First the quality of the image is not the best, unless it is a hi def camera, so identification is not 100%. Secondly, who decides where to put them. Put them on every street in a city the size of New York would be cost prohibitive, not to mention the cost of manpower to monitor the cameras.

On the plus side, in some areas where the crime rate is high, it might be a factor in reducing crime.

3) Gps tracking.

Recently I saw something on the science channel that explained that unless the gps feature is set to law enforcement only, companies can track a cell phone owner's activities through out the day. Come use the information for marketing, and some use the information for researching traffic and pedestrian patterns to determine where to put various businesses.

Law enforcement can use the feature to find missing persons or criminals.

But I am not sure I want people to know everywhere I go.

_____________________________

Boy, it sure would be nice if we had some grenades, don't you think?

You cannot control who comes into your life, but you can control which airlock you throw them out of.

Paranoid Paramilitary Gun Loving Conspiracy Theorist AND EQUAL OPPORTUNI
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RE: this topic came up in another thread, so to prevent... - 8/3/2013 10:04:05 AM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		why where do you go?


?

(in reply to jlf1961)
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RE: this topic came up in another thread, so to prevent... - 8/3/2013 10:05:26 AM   
jlf1961


Posts: 14840
Joined: 6/10/2008
From: Somewhere Texas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

why where do you go?


?



Places with NO people.

_____________________________

Boy, it sure would be nice if we had some grenades, don't you think?

You cannot control who comes into your life, but you can control which airlock you throw them out of.

Paranoid Paramilitary Gun Loving Conspiracy Theorist AND EQUAL OPPORTUNI

(in reply to pahunkboy)
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RE: this topic came up in another thread, so to prevent... - 8/3/2013 10:48:01 AM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline 		its not about how much, its about do they or do they not, they do, therefore its only a matter of time before we have routine predator drones in our skies.

you know, when we find out 10 years from now that their fake war on terror is not going so well and they have a need to "protect" us by looking even farther up our asses than they already do.

_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to jlf1961)
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RE: this topic came up in another thread, so to prevent... - 8/3/2013 10:54:24 AM   
FelineRanger


Posts: 658
Joined: 9/4/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

its not about how much, its about do they or do they not, they do, therefore its only a matter of time before we have routine predator drones in our skies.

you know, when we find out 10 years from now that their fake war on terror is not going so well and they have a need to "protect" us by looking even farther up our asses than they already do.


I often disagree with you but I agree wholeheartedly with this statement.

_____________________________

Bill

(in reply to Real0ne)
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RE: this topic came up in another thread, so to prevent... - 8/3/2013 11:22:09 AM   
Edwynn


Posts: 4105
Joined: 10/26/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

its not about how much, its about do they or do they not, they do, therefore its only a matter of time before we have routine predator drones in our skies.



Powered by Google.

(in reply to Real0ne)
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RE: this topic came up in another thread, so to prevent... - 8/3/2013 11:22:59 AM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline 		FR

Attention : The government is not there to protect YOU. The government protects the government.

If Chris Dorner killed 1,000 people they would be happy because it would justify more money to be used to protect THEM, NOT YOU.

Take that perspective, rethink all this shit and you see that it makes perfect sense.

T^T

(in reply to FelineRanger)
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RE: this topic came up in another thread, so to prevent... - 8/3/2013 11:38:19 AM   
Bds2


Posts: 2
Joined: 6/26/2013
Status: offline 		I would like to fight crime in our cities buy using that very device...Superb

(in reply to jlf1961)
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RE: this topic came up in another thread, so to prevent... - 8/3/2013 11:39:49 AM   
Bds2


Posts: 2
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Status: offline 		Yes I said it

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RE: this topic came up in another thread, so to prevent... - 8/3/2013 12:06:39 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961
2) Cameras

I am of two minds on these.
First the quality of the image is not the best, unless it is a hi def camera, so identification is not 100%. Secondly, who decides where to put them. Put them on every street in a city the size of New York would be cost prohibitive, not to mention the cost of manpower to monitor the cameras.

On the plus side, in some areas where the crime rate is high, it might be a factor in reducing crime.

Chicago has had a great deal of success with placing cameras with flashing blue lights and signage saying Chicago PD at places with street crime problems. Muggers and other predators don't like being taped doing there crimes so they move away and since these cameras are usually placed in area that have high traffic due to "l" stations or bus stops they can no longer prey on people as easily.

(in reply to jlf1961)
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RE: this topic came up in another thread, so to prevent... - 8/3/2013 1:24:10 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

why where do you go?


?

nobodies business

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to pahunkboy)
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RE: this topic came up in another thread, so to prevent... - 8/3/2013 1:37:15 PM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen


quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961
2) Cameras

I am of two minds on these.
First the quality of the image is not the best, unless it is a hi def camera, so identification is not 100%. Secondly, who decides where to put them. Put them on every street in a city the size of New York would be cost prohibitive, not to mention the cost of manpower to monitor the cameras.

On the plus side, in some areas where the crime rate is high, it might be a factor in reducing crime.

Chicago has had a great deal of success with placing cameras with flashing blue lights and signage saying Chicago PD at places with street crime problems. Muggers and other predators don't like being taped doing there crimes so they move away and since these cameras are usually placed in area that have high traffic due to "l" stations or bus stops they can no longer prey on people as easily.



so they can stalk and investigate you without probable cause while drinking coffee and eating donuts huh? How convenient!





_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to DomKen)
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RE: this topic came up in another thread, so to prevent... - 8/3/2013 11:52:21 PM   
Edwynn


Posts: 4105
Joined: 10/26/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or
FR

Attention : The government is not there to protect YOU. The government protects the government.


Wrong.

The government is there to protect the corporations. The corporations have been quite effective in seeing to that.




< Message edited by Edwynn -- 8/3/2013 11:54:09 PM >

(in reply to Termyn8or)
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RE: this topic came up in another thread, so to prevent... - 8/4/2013 12:05:57 AM   
MrBukani


Posts: 1920
Joined: 4/18/2010
Status: offline 		Really? I thought they protected and served the sheeple

(in reply to Edwynn)
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RE: this topic came up in another thread, so to prevent... - 8/4/2013 1:50:59 AM   
Edwynn


Posts: 4105
Joined: 10/26/2008
Status: offline
The only 'sheeple' are the ones stupid enough to think that the problem is the 'gummint,' and not the corporations who actually run the government.


(in reply to MrBukani)
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RE: this topic came up in another thread, so to prevent... - 8/4/2013 7:17:14 AM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline 		but the corporate members created the gubmint.
The one thing that becomes immediately apparent when studying law is the circular reasoning used to protect the house of cards called government.

It reminds me of a magicians trick, while you are watching one hand the other is creating and manipulating the illusion.

as long as a con artist can get you to believe, they are safe to continue the con.





_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to Edwynn)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: this topic came up in another thread, so to prevent... - 8/4/2013 7:26:59 AM   
JeffBC


Posts: 5799
Joined: 2/12/2012
From: Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or
Attention : The government is not there to protect YOU. The government protects the government.

Agreed. Game of Thrones is more of a news show than a CNN political broadcast.

Insofar as drones, like all surveillance issues I wish people wouldn't simply make up random crap. It would be argus drones (and whatever comes after them) that worry me a crapload more than predator drones.

Insofar as state surveillance in general is concerned, when in all of history has that ever gone well?

_____________________________

I'm a lover of "what is", not because I'm a spiritual person, but because it hurts when I argue with reality. -- Bryon Katie
"You're humbly arrogant" -- sunshinemiss
officially a member of the K Crowd

(in reply to Termyn8or)
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RE: this topic came up in another thread, so to prevent... - 8/4/2013 7:39:44 AM   
vincentML


Posts: 9980
Joined: 10/31/2009
Status: offline
quote:

The only drones available to law enforcement except under special circumstance are just a little larger than a gas powered remote control helicopter, and makes the same amount of noise.

How is this different from having the old fashioned cop on the beat or more visible patrol cars in high crime areas? The same for cameras? These are objectionable to people who hold the conflicting philosophical positions of demanding more law enforcement but less government and smaller taxes to pay for crime prevention.

gps tracking available to marketers and merchants seems without justification.

(in reply to jlf1961)
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RE: this topic came up in another thread, so to prevent... - 8/4/2013 7:45:34 AM   
JeffBC


Posts: 5799
Joined: 2/12/2012
From: Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML
How is this different from having the old fashioned cop on the beat or more visible patrol cars in high crime areas? The same for cameras? These are objectionable to people who hold the conflicting philosophical positions of demanding more law enforcement but less government and smaller taxes to pay for crime prevention.

No. They are objectionable to people who understand what those differences are. The fact that you can't figure it out doesn't mean there are no differences and that those differences aren't meaningful.

I am willing to pay for crime prevention... to a point. I don't need or want the government to try to assure absolute safety. I am willing to pay more for crime prevention in certain areas if the cheaper solutions came burdened with nasty and unpreventable side effects. I'd be willing to discuss ways in which the US government could openly and honestly use these technologies with some sort of elaborate watch dog setup. I am not holding conflicting positions. I just don't think "big brother" is there to keep me safe.

_____________________________

I'm a lover of "what is", not because I'm a spiritual person, but because it hurts when I argue with reality. -- Bryon Katie
"You're humbly arrogant" -- sunshinemiss
officially a member of the K Crowd

(in reply to vincentML)
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RE: this topic came up in another thread, so to prevent... - 8/4/2013 7:46:31 AM   
SpaceSpank


Posts: 244
Joined: 10/3/2010
Status: offline 		I'd disagree.

It's there to protect the power/money.

Who owns that has changed over the years of course, and now it's the large corporations who can toss the money to get their way, not so much the individual "Elites" of society as it once was... but there certainly are still many wealthy individuals/families that still retain a great deal of influence and power.



quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwynn

quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or
FR

Attention : The government is not there to protect YOU. The government protects the government.


Wrong.

The government is there to protect the corporations. The corporations have been quite effective in seeing to that.





(in reply to Edwynn)
Profile   Post #: 20
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