How to tell someone that they aren't what they think they are? (Full Version)

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MissImmortalPain -> How to tell someone that they aren't what they think they are? (8/5/2013 2:30:48 PM)

Those of you that know me might find it odd that I am asking this question, I don't normally have issues just telling a person what I think...but....

I am having issues with telling a young man my real opinion. He is new to WIITWD and very willing to learn in many ways, but I don't believe he is what he thinks he is (submissive) I think he believes that he has to be submissive because he is small of build, has a soft voice, and has MS. I think he believes that because he can not overpower a person he must submit to them. He seems constantly amazed that I am dominant and in a wheelchair. I have spoken to him for awhile now. I can hear the drive in his voice, the desire to lead, etc. So....suggestions on how to tell him, and more to point how to help him build faith in himself, that he can?



mnottertail -> RE: How to tell someone that they aren't what they think they are? (8/5/2013 2:36:59 PM)

Can you go about it the long way around the barn, and by various and sundry exercises, have him come to that conclusion by his own evidence?

That would not put any particular having toos upon you.



MissImmortalPain -> RE: How to tell someone that they aren't what they think they are? (8/5/2013 2:43:29 PM)

Suggestions on exercises? I have "suggested" tasks for him to do but after doing each he admits he only did them because I asked. And he misses the point of the tasks proving that he can do things he thought he couldn't. He is independent, intelligent, and funny. Short of me helping him, a little, with PT he "stands on his own" so to speak. I have even allowed him to test pressure points on me to see if he could hurt me which he said he enjoyed doing but felt that I only "allowed" it so it was still an act of submission.



mummyman321 -> RE: How to tell someone that they aren't what they think they are? (8/5/2013 2:55:23 PM)

MIP,
I would say to him you want to explore his lifestyle desires/motivations for an evening via a relaxed Q&A discussion. I would simply ask him outright why do you feel you are submissive? Do you feel submissive because of your size? Tell him honestly you see traits that could be dominant and you are curious. Explore the subject for the evening with him. Dominant traits can be the signs of an Alpha sub male or a person still figuring out who he is. The real key is finding out what his motivation is. The only way I know how to do that is through a lot of questions. Share your views with him as well.



Blankpain -> RE: How to tell someone that they aren't what they think they are? (8/5/2013 4:03:18 PM)

quote:

I don't believe he is what he thinks he is (submissive)


I once told someone that they weren't "submissive enough", which was my simple way of saying it.



MistressDarkArt -> RE: How to tell someone that they aren't what they think they are? (8/5/2013 4:26:37 PM)

Ahhh, MIP, so glad to see you posting! I was thinking about you today wondering how things were going, and was ready to post 'anybody heard from MIP?'

To answer your question: I would have an informal evening of going over a comprehensive checklist with a fine tooth comb. Twice, once from the sub and and once from the dom side. Much will be revealed.



kiwisub12 -> RE: How to tell someone that they aren't what they think they are? (8/5/2013 5:44:37 PM)

Seems to me that you can tell him your opinion, but in the end , he is what he identifies himself as.

If he thinks he is submissive, he is. And just because he does things because you asked him to, how does that make him not submissive. I do housework, and its not because I want to - its because he asked me to.
Sounds like his submission isn't your idea of submission.

and of course, if he really is dominant, I have a feeling he would figure it out sooner or later. Especially once he gains a bit more experience and insight into the whole idea of bdsm.



littlewonder -> RE: How to tell someone that they aren't what they think they are? (8/5/2013 6:27:29 PM)

point out to him all the disabled people there are in the world who have overcome their disability and use it as a tool of confidence instead of weakness and that the body is not what makes a person strong but their mind and what they do with it.

Lou Gehrig
Stephen Hawking
Those people who were injured in wars and still are soldiers just not on the battlefield
Michael J. Fox
Roosevelt. I mean come on....Roosevelt. The man was president and couldn't walk and he definitely was not weak just because he couldn't walk
Christopher Reeve...Superman!

Tell him to start thinking about what it is he wants to accomplish in life and start doing it and not to let his disability stop him. His disability does not make him submissive.



UnicornGoddess -> RE: How to tell someone that they aren't what they think they are? (8/6/2013 4:12:41 AM)

It can be a really difficult topic, and sometimes hard to address without hurting someone's feelings. That is to say, there is always the chance that the guy will think you are telling him he is "not good enough" at submitting.

I think all of the posters above have already made some great suggestions. The only further suggestion thing I would like to add is maybe work in a discussion on "Switches" into the conversation. It may be a little easier for the guy to accept that "It's okay to be both" rather than immediately turning his back submission when it sounds like he was putting some sincere effort into it.



JeffBC -> RE: How to tell someone that they aren't what they think they are? (8/6/2013 8:26:39 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: UnicornGoddess
It can be a really difficult topic, and sometimes hard to address without hurting someone's feelings. That is to say, there is always the chance that the guy will think you are telling him he is "not good enough" at submitting.

Heh, screw that. There's the 100% utter absolute certainty that you're saying to someone else, "Here's who you are". That breaks about 10 trillion of my rules of polite society so I just wouldn't do it.



PeonForHer -> RE: How to tell someone that they aren't what they think they are? (8/6/2013 12:20:16 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: MissImmortalPain

I am having issues with telling a young man my real opinion. He is new to WIITWD and very willing to learn in many ways, but I don't believe he is what he thinks he is (submissive) I think he believes that he has to be submissive because he is small of build, has a soft voice, and has MS. I think he believes that because he can not overpower a person he must submit to them. He seems constantly amazed that I am dominant and in a wheelchair. I have spoken to him for awhile now. I can hear the drive in his voice, the desire to lead, etc. So....suggestions on how to tell him, and more to point how to help him build faith in himself, that he can?


The question that springs largest to my mind is: does this mean a man who's physically strong enough to overpower you (and indeed pretty much every other woman) must be a dominant? Because if so, I have some very fundamental self-reappraisal to do.



MissImmortalPain -> RE: How to tell someone that they aren't what they think they are? (8/8/2013 8:26:03 AM)

He and I have had this conversation and he says it is not do to his size or medical issues. He can not give a reason other than because he likes making people "happy" and that he is shy. I have given him my opinion about how aggressive he is about many things and how many of his actions have me believing that he is not submissive. He says he understands and that yes there are times when he wishes to be in charge but he ignores them.

p.s....nice to see you are back Mummy.



MissImmortalPain -> RE: How to tell someone that they aren't what they think they are? (8/8/2013 8:31:47 AM)

I have given him checklists twice now (four in total) The first time he filled them out rather quickly so I asked that the think about them longer this time. I have not yet seen the second set but should tomorrow.

Thank you for the kind words. Life has not been easy lately but it is nice to be missed.



MissImmortalPain -> RE: How to tell someone that they aren't what they think they are? (8/8/2013 8:48:08 AM)

I agree with your first statement but would hate to think he is only labeling himself as submissive because others have told him that someone in his current state would have to be submissive.

As for him doing things....well it is odd. I have had objective subs before. Ones that didn't want to do things but in the end did just so I would stop saying to do it. He is more flat out 'No" about things. When he really doesn't want to do something it is not done...period. He even pointed out to me once that he did not move when I asked for something because he had not heard the word please yet.

As for him learning more and deciding later.... I am all for letting him do that but when he comes to me to ask how to be better at being submissive things get complicated.



MissImmortalPain -> RE: How to tell someone that they aren't what they think they are? (8/8/2013 8:53:19 AM)

Switches actually were a topic I tried to bring up but he refuses to believe in such things. He says everyone is one or the other ( I credit it to his youth) and that he is one or the other as well.



MissImmortalPain -> RE: How to tell someone that they aren't what they think they are? (8/8/2013 8:58:48 AM)

Were you wanting his opinion or mine? I can ask his but mine is simple....size has nothing to do with it. I have before been dominated by someone smaller than myself. I work often with men larger and stronger than myself but I dominate them.



LadyPact -> RE: How to tell someone that they aren't what they think they are? (8/8/2013 9:51:12 AM)

No offense, but I think you're barking up the wrong tree.

Unless he is unhappy with what he is choosing to do, why not allow him his own path of self-discovery? Let him take the time to come into his own when *he* wants to or is ready. He'll appreciate his own learning process more that way than being told who he is by somebody else.



orgasmdenial12 -> RE: How to tell someone that they aren't what they think they are? (8/9/2013 11:36:44 AM)

quote:

how to help him build faith in himself, that he can?


Has he confirmed that his lack of dominance is because he feels that he *can't* or that he *doesn't want to*?

I personally have many dominant qualities, but I identify as submissive because it turns me on and because that is the role that I wish to take. If someone told me that I wasn't submissive and that I should be a Domme if would offend me. Whether it's right or wrong, he has the right to choose his sexual identity regardless of whether you think that's what he should be.



lovethyself -> RE: How to tell someone that they aren't what they think they are? (8/9/2013 3:48:02 PM)

FR

I don't know if this will help you or not, but here goes nothing. I've thought for a long time that I was submissive. It's what was missing (I felt) from previous relationships. I've been in a D/s relationship now for a few months, and while I thoroughly enjoy parts of it, I'm still not feeling fully satisfied. A friend asked me a very pointed question. "Where do you feel most fulfilled, most yourself?" (I'm paraphrasing).

It started me thinking. The times when I flourish are when I'm in charge of a group, handling all the details, multitasking, getting the group to work together as a unit towards a common goal. That self reflection is what got me considering whether I might be more of a switch. I'm still working through how I feel about it.

But, at the end of the day, it's also about what he likes and enjoys physically. I may have dominant qualities to my personallity, but the idea of topping someone in any intimate way currently does nothing for me other than make me nervous and unsure. Perhaps one day, when I've dealt with the issues contributing to my aversion, I may grow into my dominant side. But until then, I would not thank someone, even a friend, for pushing me before I was ready to accept that side of me.

I think the most you can do is ask him questions that let him look inside himself in a new way. He has to come to the conclusion for himself. You could push him to take a dominant role, but he may only be adopting that role as a service to you. As you said, he is still young. He will discover himself in time, whatever he is.



VanillaKinkTwist -> RE: How to tell someone that they aren't what they think they are? (8/9/2013 6:26:54 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffBC

quote:

ORIGINAL: UnicornGoddess
It can be a really difficult topic, and sometimes hard to address without hurting someone's feelings. That is to say, there is always the chance that the guy will think you are telling him he is "not good enough" at submitting.

Heh, screw that. There's the 100% utter absolute certainty that you're saying to someone else, "Here's who you are". That breaks about 10 trillion of my rules of polite society so I just wouldn't do it.


[sm=agree.gif]

Either way you look at it you're telling someone what they are or are not. Who are you to decide what or who another is?

Your opinion is that he is not fully submissive (or not submissive at all). Does that make it the truth though? You can express your opinion and give suggestions if you believe someone would enjoy a dominant role. They, however, are the only one who decides on whether they want to try it.

You obviously see potential in this young man to be dominant and he is either not interested in being dominant or not comfortable at this time in exploring a dominant role. You've given him food for thought on the matter, the rest is up to him to decide on in his time, when or if he wants to.

None of what I have written is meant to sound rude or snarky but merely to give you something to think about from another's point of view.



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