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Meeting, information, safety, truthfullness - 6/29/2006 11:12:15 AM

SilverWulf

Posts: 196
Joined: 4/7/2005
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An interesting point was brought up in another thread. Rather than hijack that one, I'll start a new one here.

There has been much discussion about Dominants giving information to a submissive before the initial meeting so she can verify who he is, be safe, and all of that.

Mercnbeth pointed out that giving information is a good way to remove excuses to facilitate that first meeting, I agree.

It seems to me that many think this should be a one way street. The submissives want my name, phone numbers, scan of my drivers license, possibly an address or place of employment, etc... so they can set up a safe call.

What about the Dominant? If I give out all my information, why is it such a horrible thing to ask for your information in return? There has been more than one girl that has run away screaming (figuratively) when I have asked this of them, after I have provided all of this to them.

Is it that we are supposed to trust the submissives with our information, yet at the same time we Dominants are not trustworthy enough to have the submissives information?

SilverWulf

Post #: 1

RE: Meeting, information, safety, truthfullness - 6/29/2006 11:18:08 AM

LuckyAlbatross

Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: SilverWulf
What about the Dominant? If I give out all my information, why is it such a horrible thing to ask for your information in return? There has been more than one girl that has run away screaming (figuratively) when I have asked this of them, after I have provided all of this to them.

Is it that we are supposed to trust the submissives with our information, yet at the same time we Dominants are not trustworthy enough to have the submissives information?

SilverWulf

Pretty much.

It's a common held idea that subs are passive/weak/need to protect themselves (or make others protect them) at all costs while doms are monsters barely held in check by an elaborate series of safety calls and "tests of worthiness."

Now, this isn't what people will SAY when you ask them directly- no then it's all about subs being strong, and self reliant, and doms are just normal people you meet for a drink.

But the reality of the situation and how most people approach it shows how people really take it, no matter what they say to sound good.

Do what feels comfortable for you. I personally think it's rude and ridiculous and conceited to ask for information that you are not willing to give about yourself- but plenty of people do it. Decide whether those are the people you want to meet or not.

Oh and as for the running away screaming- it DOES get so tiring to hear all the advice of "Red flag RUN!"

Mature adults don't need to run from red flags. We note them, and we move gracefully forward. Running denotes lack of control and panic.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to SilverWulf)

Post #: 2

RE: Meeting, information, safety, truthfullness - 6/29/2006 11:56:42 AM

JohnWarren

Posts: 3807
Joined: 3/18/2005
From: Delray Beach, FL
Status: offline

If someone is asking for more information than I'm willing to give, I just say "so long." Of course, if I'm asked for a certain piece of information I expect the other person to be willing to give the same information.

Doesn't come up much anyway. Most of the potential play partners Libbby and I meet we meet at munches and events.

_____________________________

www.lovingdominant.org

(in reply to SilverWulf)

Post #: 3

RE: Meeting, information, safety, truthfullness - 6/29/2006 12:21:37 PM

SilverWulf

Posts: 196
Joined: 4/7/2005
Status: offline

<fast reply>

It is sad that a few bad apples have caused such widespread paranoia.

The potential for finding a girl to join My House is slim to none in the area where I live, so online is the only option.

When a conversation reaches the point where I am asked for my information, I ask for the same in return. If I do not receive what I have given, the conversation ends and I move on.

(in reply to JohnWarren)

Post #: 4

RE: Meeting, information, safety, truthfullness - 6/29/2006 12:59:41 PM

lisa1978

Posts: 224
Joined: 5/19/2006
From: Kansas City
Status: offline

I do not have a pure answer. In my opinion if enough time has passed that a person (sub and/or female) should only ask for enough information then they are willing to give themselves and give it whether it is requested or not. On the otherhand, if you are meeting at a quick pace then I think the sub/woman has the right to be more careful.

_____________________________

It hurts sometimes more than we can bear. If we could live without passion, maybe we'd know some kind of peace. But we would be hollow. Empty rooms, shuttered and dank. Without passion, we'd be truly dead.

(in reply to SilverWulf)

Post #: 5

RE: Meeting, information, safety, truthfullness - 6/29/2006 1:04:32 PM

LuckyAlbatross

Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: lisa1978
I do not have a pure answer. In my opinion if enough time has passed that a person (sub and/or female) should only ask for enough information then they are willing to give themselves and give it whether it is requested or not. On the otherhand, if you are meeting at a quick pace then I think the sub/woman has the right to be more careful.

Anyone has a right to be as careful as they want to be.

However, IMO it's rude and conceited to ask for more information than you are willing to divulge about yourself.

It's also perfectly acceptable to not meet someone because they don't fit whatever standards you may have.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to lisa1978)

Post #: 6

RE: Meeting, information, safety, truthfullness - 6/29/2006 1:12:47 PM

lisa1978

Posts: 224
Joined: 5/19/2006
From: Kansas City
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

quote:

ORIGINAL: lisa1978
I do not have a pure answer. In my opinion if enough time has passed that a person (sub and/or female) should only ask for enough information then they are willing to give themselves and give it whether it is requested or not. On the otherhand, if you are meeting at a quick pace then I think the sub/woman has the right to be more careful.

Anyone has a right to be as careful as they want to be.

However, IMO it's rude and conceited to ask for more information than you are willing to divulge about yourself.

It's also perfectly acceptable to not meet someone because they don't fit whatever standards you may have.

I agree and dissagree. I will not pretend it is not somewhat rude on some level, but to clarify my statement a little bit more I do not think that I would have the right to ask for anything or a lot of things, but as a person who has gotten stalked from a first meeting that did not go well because it was "rushed", if the person is wanting a meeting quicker than I want, I do not see the conflict as both of us can get a middle ground solution and not an either or scenario. I do not see that as being rude at all, but trying to make things work for both.

_____________________________

It hurts sometimes more than we can bear. If we could live without passion, maybe we'd know some kind of peace. But we would be hollow. Empty rooms, shuttered and dank. Without passion, we'd be truly dead.

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

Post #: 7

RE: Meeting, information, safety, truthfullness - 6/29/2006 2:05:30 PM

slavejali

Posts: 2918
Status: offline

I don't think its fair for anyone to ask of anyone information they arent prepared to give themselves.

_____________________________

Freedom in Bondage

Different Strokes for Different Folks

"I'll always have a *soft spot* for Sadists"

(in reply to lisa1978)

Post #: 8

RE: Meeting, information, safety, truthfullness - 6/29/2006 3:36:55 PM

amayos

Posts: 1553
Joined: 6/2/2004
From: New England
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: SilverWulf
It seems to me that many think this should be a one way street. The submissives want my name, phone numbers, scan of my drivers license, possibly an address or place of employment, etc... so they can set up a safe call.

What about the Dominant? If I give out all my information, why is it such a horrible thing to ask for your information in return? There has been more than one girl that has run away screaming (figuratively) when I have asked this of them, after I have provided all of this to them.

I don't allow a prospective submissive to dictate terms of engagement, or put obligation upon me to prove myself. Why would I ever allow that? If they can't trust in who I am after simple conversation, that is their loss, and certainly not mine.

'So open yourself for me
Risk your health for me
If you want my love'

(in reply to SilverWulf)

Post #: 9

RE: Meeting, information, safety, truthfullness - 6/29/2006 5:58:33 PM

diamonddreamlove

Posts: 770
Joined: 5/19/2006
Status: offline

I agree amayos if i have not gotten a feel for the Dom in conversation i am probably not setting up a meet but even then i take precautions. I did that on vanilla dates as well. Probably know the Doms better before a first meet than i ever did a vanilla first date. So i guess when all is said my vanilla dates were much more dangerous. Common sense is the key to all things in bdsm and vanilla. When that fails have a plan B and C in place.

(in reply to amayos)

Post #: 10

RE: Meeting, information, safety, truthfullness - 6/30/2006 3:15:59 PM

juliaoceania

Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline

The way you posed this post makes me think that you are referring to the interaction between maledom/femsub. I think that this problem is a male/female problem of women not wanting to expose themselves because of saftey issues. I believe that dommes feel just as vunerable as fem subs do. Now we can say that women are not more at risk than men, but statistically we are more vunerable. It is not that we are weaker, but we are socialized differently. Women are just more likely to be the victim of some sort of violence than men are.

If this is a problem for the male dom in feeling as though the exchange of information is unequal he has the choice not to meet the submissive. Same goes for a male sub wanting to meet a domme.. the meeting doesn't have to happen.

My Dom made sure he gave me all his info, drivers license, license plate number... full name and address... all of it... before we were alone together. He had my full name and landline only. He told me that I mus have safecalls before we met (which I had anyways..smiles). He teaches women's self defense classes and the idea that he would teach me to be unsafe was a foriegn one to him... He teaches all women to be safe, even with him.

That being said he wouldn't say women are "weaker" than men, we are not.. this is why we can be taught to exploit male weaknesses when in a fight

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to SilverWulf)

Post #: 11

RE: Meeting, information, safety, truthfullness - 6/30/2006 3:29:46 PM

CrappyDom

Posts: 1883
Joined: 4/11/2006
From: Sacramento
Status: offline

If someone ever asked me for that sort of information it would send up a giant red flag and I would run away. Anyone who has such fear either driven by insecurity or from a history of bad mistakes isn't someone I would want to meet with.

Of course I am not stuck in flyover country and having to meet people in Kansas. If I were and if I were a woman I guess I would be a bit more careful, but the above still stands on some level.

(in reply to juliaoceania)

Post #: 12

RE: Meeting, information, safety, truthfullness - 6/30/2006 3:51:00 PM

juliaoceania

Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline

Simply put, I didn't ask him for it... He just gave it to me. Now mind you we had been talking for some time, but I didn't demand this from him, I would never demand anything from anyone. I would not go to a second location with someone I could not give my info to though either. I can tell you that the trust factor jumped off the scale that he bent over backwards to make me feel secure.

This is the way he is, I would not EXPECT this of someone else.

Like I said, being a female makes me more cautious about things and I am always aware of my surroundings. I do not go to a second location until I know someone. A little trivia for you, even at that most women are raped and/or killed by someone they know. It is never a bad idea to be careful with the most valuable thing you possess, your well being

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to CrappyDom)

Post #: 13

RE: Meeting, information, safety, truthfullness - 6/30/2006 10:13:13 PM

SilverWulf

Posts: 196
Joined: 4/7/2005
Status: offline

I just think that the whole line of thinking that subscribes to: women are more vulnerable, women need to be more careful, women are weaker, women need {insert whatever here}, is a bunch of BS.

Male or female, we all need to be careful, but there comes a point where some are so paranoid that it borders on ridiculous.

I am not referring to any one incident here, not something that has happened to me recently either. This is just something I've seen escalating over the last few years and I'm wondering about it.

I think that alot of people are missing out on potentially great relationships because of their paranoia.

Follow the basics when meeting someone. Make it a public place, have a safe call (if you believe in them), set a time limit, make sure you are not followed when leaving. Do you really need to know everything about someone to do this? IMO, no.

If you were out at a coffee shop and began a conversation with someone that was sitting at the next table over, do you think it would be appropriate to demand all of what is asked of people here right off the bat?

What is so wrong with allowing the information exchange to happen as a relationship grows. Let it come out in conversation, let it happen while getting to know someone, let it happen like it used to happen in the 'real world'.

(in reply to juliaoceania)

Post #: 14

RE: Meeting, information, safety, truthfullness - 7/1/2006 4:20:50 AM

TxBadMan

Posts: 198
Joined: 4/7/2006
From: Moody, Texas
Status: offline

I have never divulged information to a person who does not know me personally. Nor have I ever asked for such information in return.
If one was to request such from me, I would politly tell them good-bye and the reasons for doing so.

_____________________________

Chris

(in reply to SilverWulf)

Post #: 15

RE: Meeting, information, safety, truthfullness - 7/1/2006 6:23:26 AM

Arpig

Posts: 9930
Joined: 1/3/2006
From: Increasingly further from reality
Status: offline

If they ask, they better be willing to give.

_____________________________

Big man! Pig Man!
Ha Ha...Charade you are!

Why do they leave out the letter b on "Garage Sale" signs?

CM's #1 All-Time Also-Ran

(in reply to TxBadMan)

Post #: 16

RE: Meeting, information, safety, truthfullness - 7/1/2006 8:08:14 AM

HouseofBear

Posts: 1280
Joined: 2/9/2005
Status: offline

I think anyone should be willing to give the same information they are asking for, whether they be male/female or dom/sub. Predators are not limited by gender or role within the lifestyle.

Ursa

(in reply to Arpig)

Post #: 17

RE: Meeting, information, safety, truthfullness - 7/1/2006 9:34:49 AM

juliaoceania

Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline

I do not think women are "weaker", nor do I expect men to give me their life story. I am saying that women do have reasons for feeling vunerable as opposed to men. Most men I know seem to understand this that I have went out with. Statistically I am more likely to be a victim of crime than you are by the fact I am a woman... I can lessen this chance by being aware of my surroundings and not leaving myself vunerable. I can think ahead to "what if" scenarios. I am not paranoid, but I also understand the facts of life.. most rapes happen on dates.

Men are also at risk. They should be careful too. I think it is a statement about our culture that very few have felt threatened by meeting me, but I wanted to make sure I left myself escape plans if necessary. I think more women have fears of something going wrong than men do...

I do not mind someone feeling protective toward me, making sure I am safe. I love it when the Man in my life feels protective of me, and I feel it back in return BTW. I am not of the feminist stripe anyways.. I think all people have weaknesses, and none of us are invunerable... makes me a humanitarian.

Back to the OP though, you asked a question, I tried to provide the reasoning that some women have. You may not like it, but there it is and it is not likely going to change on the whole.. although certain women will be less safety minded than others. It should play in your decisions of whom to meet or whom not to meet, but I honestly wonder why it bugs you that certain people have more fear of meeting strangers than others.. for all you know that paranoid female may have been raped on a date in the past.. it is not that uncommon unfortunately.

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to SilverWulf)

Post #: 18

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