RE: What can a sub do if the Dom is irresponsible?

RE: What can a sub do if the Dom is irresponsible? (Full Version)

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OsideGirl -> RE: What can a sub do if the Dom is irresponsible? (8/13/2013 10:04:32 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: CertainlyDom I kind of expected these results. In theory a dominate should be in control and a submissive should be controlled. But in practice that would be exhausting for the dominate and really pretty stupid, As several pointed out, both have skills and intelligence that should be used. A good manager doesn't do every job or even know how to do every job. What they do know is how to delegate to the people that do know how to do the jobs and are in a position to do them. Treating your partner as someone so lacking in intelligence that you literally have to control every single thing is just bad management. And P.S. it's dominant. Dominate is a verb.

JeffBC -> RE: What can a sub do if the Dom is irresponsible? (8/13/2013 10:21:36 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: CertainlyDom I kind of expected these results. In theory a dominate should be in control and a submissive should be controlled. Which is exactly why I choose not to have theoretical relationships.... most especially ones based on BDSM theory which are more wrapped around fantasy than actuality. quote: But when one reads these responses, they sound really normal, like most relationships. So, what makes the difference for a Dom/sub (I realize relationships differ). Since we transitioned from vanilla to whatever we are now I could list differences but honestly they are subtle enough to be near meaningless in day-to-day life. Maybe the best way to put it is that BDSM gave us a new viewpoint to look at our own marriage and see the strong D/s tendencies in it already. Given that, we elected to focus and expand on the D/s. But honestly the areas of possible expansion were sort of limited. For the most part it's in extreme areas that have no relevance to day-to-day life. To the original question the reality of human behavior spans humanity -- BDSM folk didn't create the concept of authority. Leadership is leadership. If you tell the people following you to "take a hike" they probably will. The only other alternative is to solicit/find problems and deal with them. As always, I opt for reality and given that I want my relationship to last I go for option (b)... deal with the issues. If I have to find and deal with the issues I'd rather do it in a direct and forthright fashion rather than dancing around rules of speech in order to preserve some fantasy dominance. Actual dominance is not threatened by a turn of speech. If Carol were to say to me, "You're being a total idiot here and your irresponsibility is driving me mad" how would that in any way change the reality of her personality, mine, or our relationship? And no, BDSM relationships do not have better communication than vanilla ones... as is clearly evidenced by reading threads on these very boards.

sunshinemiss -> RE: What can a sub do if the Dom is irresponsible? (8/13/2013 10:31:25 AM)
There are instances in which people enjoy micromanaging... and good on them if they have the time and energy. I think it may be more of a newbie misunderstanding of how things work in real life or has to do with time frames. If two people are not working and have copious amounts of free time and choose to spend their time that way, who am I to argue? And hey, in small doses (or larger doses) is this not what many folks do? As for what to do if a leader in a relationship is irresponsible, then the subordinate can leave, stay and deal with it, or stay and try to affect change. This goes for any hierarchical relationship. I recall a doctor making a mistake in meds for a patient... not an endangering kind of mistake, but a there is a better choice for this patient kind of mistake. After noting the side effects, the doctor was made aware but decided to continue with the medicine. Awhile later, the the shift nurse on my unit went to the doctor and expressed our concerns. The doc disagreed and stayed on the same course. The patient continued to have unnecessary side effects. So we went to the doc's supervisor and aired our concerns. The supervisor reviewed the info and was in agreement with us and talked with the attending physician. So we dealt with it for a short time and then attempted to affect change. That a couple of nurses were threatening to refuse to follow the doctor's orders was a type of leaving. The only time I ever saw them do that in fact. What is different here is that we are talking the personal rather than the professional. It's really not all that complicated when the shine wears off a bit. best, sunshine

DesFIP -> RE: What can a sub do if the Dom is irresponsible? (8/14/2013 8:18:11 PM)
It's not about control. It's about authority. A surgeon has more responsibility during an operation. But the OR nurse has a hell of a lot of responsibility too. However the person who the onus is on to ensure a successful outcome is the surgeon. He has to depend on the other people to do their jobs correctly in order for him to do his. A CEO has to depend on the people beneath him to do their job. He makes the decision but he has to trust the CFO to give him true numbers. He has to depend on his executive assistant to screen his calls so he isn't distracted by minutiae. If she can't figure out when someone really does need access to him in order for him to fix problems in a timely manner, he's going to fail the company. The dominant doesn't make all the decisions. He makes the final ones. So when he says, "no, that's not an option" then argument stops. Does the submissive need to know that he can make good decisions? That he is trustworthy? Absolutely. But all that should be learned prior to handing over final authority.

JeffBC -> RE: What can a sub do if the Dom is irresponsible? (8/15/2013 9:56:33 AM)
~fast reply~ This is another answer to this question that I particularly like. This one is more applicable to M/s relationships. Q: What can a slave do if she becomes dissatisfied with her condition? A: Flee if she is able, as slaves throughout history have done. There's a certain simple, brutal elegance to it that I like. I also like it that it treats "dominance" and "submission" as real entities not legal constructs.

CertainlyDom -> RE: What can a sub do if the Dom is irresponsible? (8/15/2013 2:59:39 PM)
When I start a thread, I normally think about it and imagine all the possible responses I might get and I usually have an idea of what I think the best answer might be. I always get responses I didn't expect. Sometimes I don't even get what I had thought was the best. This time, your response, below, is what I thought was best. Originally, when I thought om/sub, I thought in terms of 100% Dom or sub. In that regard, flee or stay are the only options for a true sub. But many people responded as if there is a sliding scale or discrete compartments in their lives. That, to me, sounds like a normal relationship so I'm not sure the concept of Dom/sub apply. quote: ORIGINAL: JeffBC ~fast reply~ This is another answer to this question that I particularly like. This one is more applicable to M/s relationships. Q: What can a slave do if she becomes dissatisfied with her condition? A: Flee if she is able, as slaves throughout history have done. There's a certain simple, brutal elegance to it that I like. I also like it that it treats "dominance" and "submission" as real entities not legal constructs.

OsideGirl -> RE: What can a sub do if the Dom is irresponsible? (8/15/2013 3:03:42 PM)
I guess I'm not a true sub then. I'll have to break the news to Master.

chatterbox24 -> RE: What can a sub do if the Dom is irresponsible? (8/16/2013 5:34:50 AM)
Drop him like a hot potato.[:D] We all are human, and make mistakes. My definition of a Dom is a responsible person, who delegates, and sees the over all workings are going as smoothly as possible. Subs are " well trained" (yes I said trained) workers. Most managers don't want to have to spoon feed a worker all the time, they want them to be independent in that job and do it well. If they don't, the worker is let go. An irresponsible dom? That's not in my dom definition. That's in the misplaced position pile and needs a new title.

CertainlyDom -> RE: What can a sub do if the Dom is irresponsible? (8/16/2013 8:12:11 AM)
The quoted response is a good expansion of the previous response that I thought was best. Add the concept of authority that was mentioned earlier to really nail it down. In essence, if one person has full authority to train, monitor, and correct in all things, that person is Dom and the other sub whether the authority is exercised or not. The world is full of vanilla relationships where neither partner has full authority and/or neither partner has authority over all things. In my opinion, these relationships frequently result in a cycle of denial. "You blocked me in that so I'll block you in this." And frequently that cycle becomes a downward spiral of dissatisfaction. But in a true Dom/sub with full authority over all the Dom is never blocked and therefore has no reason to block. If that Dom takes seriously their resposibility to provide a fulfilling life to the sub, that is an ideal Dom/sub relationship. But, again in my opinion, the sub has only the option to stay or go. quote: ORIGINAL: chatterbox24 Drop him like a hot potato.[:D] We all are human, and make mistakes. My definition of a Dom is a responsible person, who delegates, and sees the over all workings are going as smoothly as possible. Subs are " well trained" (yes I said trained) workers. Most managers don't want to have to spoon feed a worker all the time, they want them to be independent in that job and do it well. If they don't, the worker is let go. An irresponsible dom? That's not in my dom definition. That's in the misplaced position pile and needs a new title.

WinsomeDefiance -> RE: What can a sub do if the Dom is irresponsible? (8/16/2013 8:38:29 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: CertainlyDom ..Now, what can a sub do if the Dom is not responsible without breaking the Dom/sub model? I don't know, maybe start with, "I have some concerns, may I speak freely about them?" Wait for permission to do so then say... "Master, I am worried about a few things." Wait for his reaction. Talk stuff out, wait for how he resolves the issue. Make a judgement call based off how he takes control or not. Leave if necessary. In short, communicate and act responsibly within the parameters of the relationship dynamic.

JeffBC -> RE: What can a sub do if the Dom is irresponsible? (8/16/2013 10:40:20 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: CertainlyDom When I start a thread, I normally think about it and imagine all the possible responses I might get and I usually have an idea of what I think the best answer might be. I always get responses I didn't expect. Sometimes I don't even get what I had thought was the best. This time, your response, below, is what I thought was best. Originally, when I thought om/sub, I thought in terms of 100% Dom or sub. In that regard, flee or stay are the only options for a true sub. But many people responded as if there is a sliding scale or discrete compartments in their lives. That, to me, sounds like a normal relationship so I'm not sure the concept of Dom/sub apply. Real life is complicated and doesn't fit neatly into the incredibly ridiculous little boxes that BDSM likes to talk about... for instance... "100% dominant". That is fairy tale land and I leave the BDSM folks to debate their favorite story line. I deal in reality. In reality: - I have a wife who loves me. - I have a very happy marriage - I have a woman who obeys me in even ludicrous commands... many of which are "verboten" on these boards. - She obeys me unfailingly... literally. HOWEVER - In reality I have my moments when I am burnt out, tired, exhausted, depressed or whatever and I am anything but "dominant". - In reality Carol has a fully functioning human brain with all the executive functions, emotional layers, etc. that human brains have.. as do I. - In reality being dominant does not mean that I don't love her... quite the opposite actually. - In MY reality, the word "love" carries with it an entire gestalt of limitations and opportunities which both constrain and empower me. That is reality. That's exactly why I'm not a "true dom" or a "true master" or any other god damned BDSM label. edited to add: But in reality, I'm a really happy guy. I think that makes an adequate consolation prize for my lack of dominance :)

CertainlyDom -> RE: What can a sub do if the Dom is irresponsible? (8/16/2013 1:58:18 PM)
JeffBC, When you are burnt out do you still have authority? I'll bet you do. I've managed many groups in my working life. I first established and expressed my authority. I always assumed management of trained staffs so I always started with a full audit of all functions and employees. If I found training needs, I trained or arranged training. When I was satisfied that things were right, I just monitored by sample and was available to decide issues or resolve problems. I trained and corrected as needed. So 98%+ of the time, employees just did what they were hired to do. But, without question, authority and responsibility were mine. While that was work, not a relationship, I think there are parallels. I was always boss based on authority. You are probably always Dom based on authority.

DesFIP -> RE: What can a sub do if the Dom is irresponsible? (8/16/2013 7:06:21 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: CertainlyDom When I start a thread, I normally think about it and imagine all the possible responses I might get and I usually have an idea of what I think the best answer might be. I always get responses I didn't expect. Sometimes I don't even get what I had thought was the best. This time, your response, below, is what I thought was best. Originally, when I thought om/sub, I thought in terms of 100% Dom or sub. In that regard, flee or stay are the only options for a true sub. But many people responded as if there is a sliding scale or discrete compartments in their lives. That, to me, sounds like a normal relationship so I'm not sure the concept of Dom/sub apply. Then you need to look at it differently. Dom/sub are very often normal relationships. Just as you wouldn't quit the first time your boss screwed something up, but instead you would attempt to talk about the problem with him, and offer him your thoughts to fix the problem, so most of us will do if there's a problem in the relationship. Somebody whose first thought is to flee or end the relationship is somebody lacking in relationship skills. We're all human. We're all fallible. Accept that or don't get into a relationship.

Futuresocks -> RE: What can a sub do if the Dom is irresponsible? (8/16/2013 10:13:10 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: OsideGirl quote: ORIGINAL: CertainlyDom Now, what can a sub do if the Dom is not responsible without breaking the Dom/sub model? Why would I stay with someone that wasn't responsible? I wouldn't stay in a vanilla relationship with someone like that and adding D/s BDSM doesn't magically change that. Exactly. It isn't an issue, except perhaps one of frustration, until a Dom/mme makes bad decisions with your safety and/or well-being. Whether it's getting forearm straps too tight for too long or deciding when you've had enough caning, someone who holds power over someone needs to have their shit together. I learned just how much responsibility goes into domming just by trying it in small, informal settings. And I've also had good Dommes tell me that a lot of work goes it.

CertainlyDom -> RE: What can a sub do if the Dom is irresponsible? (8/17/2013 6:29:39 AM)
I didn't mean you don't talk. I think communication is important in any relationship. But a Dom that listens and makes reasonable adjustments seems to me to be responsible. One of the things in my mind when I started this was a poster in another thread that talked about being turned out, told to leave, by more than one Dom and then being homeless until the next Dom came along. It just seemed to me that these Doms should have planned for her to be able to live without them. They should have insured that she had skills that would allow her to work. They should have insisted that she work and save. That's responsible. Of course, I don't know any of those people. Maybe the Doms tried and sent her away when she wouldn't follow instructions. But that was one idea that was in my mind. quote: ORIGINAL: DesFIP quote: ORIGINAL: CertainlyDom When I start a thread, I normally think about it and imagine all the possible responses I might get and I usually have an idea of what I think the best answer might be. I always get responses I didn't expect. Sometimes I don't even get what I had thought was the best. This time, your response, below, is what I thought was best. Originally, when I thought om/sub, I thought in terms of 100% Dom or sub. In that regard, flee or stay are the only options for a true sub. But many people responded as if there is a sliding scale or discrete compartments in their lives. That, to me, sounds like a normal relationship so I'm not sure the concept of Dom/sub apply. Then you need to look at it differently. Dom/sub are very often normal relationships. Just as you wouldn't quit the first time your boss screwed something up, but instead you would attempt to talk about the problem with him, and offer him your thoughts to fix the problem, so most of us will do if there's a problem in the relationship. Somebody whose first thought is to flee or end the relationship is somebody lacking in relationship skills. We're all human. We're all fallible. Accept that or don't get into a relationship.

ChatteParfaitt -> RE: What can a sub do if the Dom is irresponsible? (8/17/2013 6:53:30 AM)
FR: If a dom is irresponsible, get a new one. Trying to change the person you are in a relationship with never works.

CertainlyDom -> RE: What can a sub do if the Dom is irresponsible? (8/17/2013 7:44:56 AM)
I just received an extremely nasty (death is the only way out), racist (99.9% of power is held by WHITE men), borderline threatening (You are dead to me) email on the main site from a person with no active profile. It was in response to this thread. Obviously they had something to say that they were not brave enough to say publicly. But, how does someone do that?

mnottertail -> RE: What can a sub do if the Dom is irresponsible? (8/17/2013 7:51:54 AM)
even with a hidden profile, they can search you, or see that little PM button under your avatar? Naturlich.

Winterapple -> RE: What can a sub do if the Dom is irresponsible? (8/17/2013 11:34:30 AM)
If she has the legal protection of marriage a woman perhaps could stay home all day naked. Without that she probably needs a job, a savings account, health insurance, a retirement plan, practical stuff like that. And even with the protection of marriage she should be prepared to be able to live on her own and plan for the future.

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