RE: Republicans Limiting The Vote (Full Version)

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BitYakin -> RE: Republicans Limiting The Vote (8/16/2013 2:11:04 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

he does that a lot


yes I do tend to respond to any post I have something to say about, isn't that the POINT of a PUBLIC FORUM?

you don't want the PUBLIC to respond to your posts then don't post them PUBLICLY!




DomKen -> RE: Republicans Limiting The Vote (8/16/2013 2:16:36 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: BitYakin


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen


quote:

ORIGINAL: BitYakin

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen


quote:

ORIGINAL: BitYakin
<boring ranting deleted>

Did you actually look at the form in question. They want the last 4 of your SS#. Want to bet they can index a last 4 to your legal name and determine if your really are a citizen?

Do you really think an entire state simply lets anyone vote with no precautions?


as a matter of a fact YES I DID,

Box 8 – Last Four Digits of Social Security Number
Required for registration unless you do not have a Social Security Number. (§115.155, RSMO, §115.158, RSMo.) If you do not have a
Social Security Number, leave blank.


And if you actually follow the references in the instructions to section 115 par 155 of the Revised Missouri statute you will find this:
quote:

3. Upon receipt by mail of a completed and signed voter registration application, a voter registration application forwarded by the division of motor vehicle and drivers licensing of the department of revenue pursuant to section 115.160, or a voter registration agency pursuant to section 115.162, the election authority shall, if satisfied that the applicant is entitled to register, transfer all data necessary for the registration records from the application to its registration system. Within seven business days after receiving the application, the election authority shall send the applicant a verification notice. If such notice is returned as undeliverable by the postal service within the time established by the election authority, the election authority shall not place the applicant's name on the voter registration file.

4. If, upon receipt by mail of a voter registration application or a voter registration application forwarded pursuant to section 115.160 or 115.162, the election authority determines that the applicant is not entitled to register, such authority shall, within seven business days after receiving the application, so notify the applicant by mail and state the reason such authority has determined the applicant is not qualified. The applicant may have such determination reviewed pursuant to the provisions of section 115.223. If an applicant for voter registration fails to answer the question on the application concerning United States citizenship, the election authority shall notify the applicant of the failure and provide the applicant with an opportunity to complete the form in a timely manner to allow for the completion of the registration form before the next election.

http://www.moga.mo.gov/statutes/C100-199/1150000155.HTM
So just like I said at the beginning of this, the state is supposed to verify whether a person attempting to register to vote is a citizen. If you really think the only possible way to do that is requiring a citizen to present a picture ID every time they vote you are sorely mistaken.



andddd where in all that did it say using a utility bill is reason for denial of the application?

It says the election authority has to determine if the person is qualified to vote. That includes determining if someone is a citizen. Since no one has yet shown any non citixens voting in Missouri I assume the system is working just fine.

You will of course continue ranting and shouting till you get another time out.




BitYakin -> RE: Republicans Limiting The Vote (8/16/2013 2:24:04 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen


quote:

ORIGINAL: BitYakin


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen


quote:

ORIGINAL: BitYakin

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen


quote:

ORIGINAL: BitYakin
<boring ranting deleted>

Did you actually look at the form in question. They want the last 4 of your SS#. Want to bet they can index a last 4 to your legal name and determine if your really are a citizen?

Do you really think an entire state simply lets anyone vote with no precautions?


as a matter of a fact YES I DID,

Box 8 – Last Four Digits of Social Security Number
Required for registration unless you do not have a Social Security Number. (§115.155, RSMO, §115.158, RSMo.) If you do not have a
Social Security Number, leave blank.


And if you actually follow the references in the instructions to section 115 par 155 of the Revised Missouri statute you will find this:
quote:

3. Upon receipt by mail of a completed and signed voter registration application, a voter registration application forwarded by the division of motor vehicle and drivers licensing of the department of revenue pursuant to section 115.160, or a voter registration agency pursuant to section 115.162, the election authority shall, if satisfied that the applicant is entitled to register, transfer all data necessary for the registration records from the application to its registration system. Within seven business days after receiving the application, the election authority shall send the applicant a verification notice. If such notice is returned as undeliverable by the postal service within the time established by the election authority, the election authority shall not place the applicant's name on the voter registration file.

4. If, upon receipt by mail of a voter registration application or a voter registration application forwarded pursuant to section 115.160 or 115.162, the election authority determines that the applicant is not entitled to register, such authority shall, within seven business days after receiving the application, so notify the applicant by mail and state the reason such authority has determined the applicant is not qualified. The applicant may have such determination reviewed pursuant to the provisions of section 115.223. If an applicant for voter registration fails to answer the question on the application concerning United States citizenship, the election authority shall notify the applicant of the failure and provide the applicant with an opportunity to complete the form in a timely manner to allow for the completion of the registration form before the next election.

http://www.moga.mo.gov/statutes/C100-199/1150000155.HTM
So just like I said at the beginning of this, the state is supposed to verify whether a person attempting to register to vote is a citizen. If you really think the only possible way to do that is requiring a citizen to present a picture ID every time they vote you are sorely mistaken.



andddd where in all that did it say using a utility bill is reason for denial of the application?

It says the election authority has to determine if the person is qualified to vote. That includes determining if someone is a citizen. Since no one has yet shown any non citixens voting in Missouri I assume the system is working just fine.

You will of course continue ranting and shouting till you get another time out.

yessss and it ALSO says a UTILITY BILL is sufficiant to satisfy that determination!

DUDE its RIGHT THERE ON THE PAGE, clear as clear can BE!

and thinking on what I said earlier about, what people put on thier apps, I am guessing since the utility bill is the most disposable document, its probably the one most often used

why go to kinkos and have a copy made of a DL or some other document you need to keep when you can just pop last months original ultilty bill in with the app!

and if its COMMON for people to do that, odds are no one is going to give it a second thought!




DomKen -> RE: Republicans Limiting The Vote (8/16/2013 2:24:33 AM)

And another Republican wild goose chase for a non citizen voter comes up with nothing.
http://www.dailycamera.com/news/boulder/ci_23864751/boulder-da-stan-garnett-clears-illegal-voters-gessler

Got to wonder how much these fools errands are costing state and country governments.




BitYakin -> RE: Republicans Limiting The Vote (8/16/2013 2:36:46 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

And another Republican wild goose chase for a non citizen voter comes up with nothing.
http://www.dailycamera.com/news/boulder/ci_23864751/boulder-da-stan-garnett-clears-illegal-voters-gessler

Got to wonder how much these fools errands are costing state and country governments.


really comes up with NOTHING?

17 out of 155?


"But Coolidge presented documentation from several non-citizens who were improperly registered and who asked to be removed when contacted by the Secretary of State's Office"

I'd say 155 cleared out of 155 suspected = nothing





Kirata -> RE: Republicans Limiting The Vote (8/16/2013 3:13:15 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

Got to wonder how much these fools errands are costing state and country governments.

And I have to wonder what fools who insist that the problem is either trivial or non-existent are costing us.

A sobering 2008 review of the illegal voting situation written by a former member of the Federal Election Commission and Counsel to the Assistant Attorney General for Civil Rights at the U.S. Department of Justice can be found here:

http://www.thecuttingedgenews.com/index.php?article=691

K.




Lucylastic -> RE: Republicans Limiting The Vote (8/16/2013 3:39:24 AM)

When you make straw men by the bale load to make your point, you pass relevancy.....ps i have the same right to post on any comment as you, strange that huh...




joether -> RE: Republicans Limiting The Vote (8/16/2013 4:32:03 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

Got to wonder how much these fools errands are costing state and country governments.

And I have to wonder what fools who insist that the problem is either trivial or non-existent are costing us.

A sobering 2008 review of the illegal voting situation written by a former member of the Federal Election Commission and Counsel to the Assistant Attorney General for Civil Rights at the U.S. Department of Justice can be found here:

http://www.thecuttingedgenews.com/index.php?article=691

K.



A very long and pointless article. Usually quite a bit of fear cards while displaying no factual information. The site itself is very 'conservative viewpoint' rather than 'reporting the news with journalistic integrity'. What was the name of that 2005 GAO study that this whole article of yours is based upon? I'll give you a hint! Of course in the same google search I did, I found this little gem. On page 4 of that document it explains why conservatives are incorrect on the evidence regarding voter fraud. They got their information from one, Hans Von Spakovsky, whom took the following caption you will find in your article:

quote:


“that up to 3 percent of 30,000 individuals called for jury duty from voter registration rolls over a two-year period in just one U.S. district were not U.S. citizens.”


Now that line does not come up in my first link of this post (the one about the hint) directly. No, it comes from Lou Dobbs when he was apart of CNN. That clip can no longer be found (yeah I did look). Yes, Mr. "One Issue Man" really hated those illegal immigrants and pushed that on just about every one of his shows. The GAO and the Truth in Immigration links show that the facts were distorted to show that voting by illegals was rampant and out of control. One has to read both of them to gain that insight; but your typical conservative on this topic can not be bothered to spend an hour or two reading when its just plain easier to be told how to think by FOX News or Rush Limbaugh....

To answer your first question, Kirata, in a simple answer: a lot of money and time. Problem is folks with conservative philosophies listen to garbage hiding as pseudo journalists online, radio, and T.V. spewing false information; knowing those that listen/see their material will never check on said information, nor question it. The problem of voter fraud really is irrelevant. The facts as they are known do not support the 'fear card' conservative news agencies have pushed over the years that illegal immigrants or anyone not allowed to vote are voting in high numbers. An so, it takes MORE time, effort, and money, to re-educated these idiots on the actual facts; when they could have learned the correct information had they only had CRITICAL THINKING SKILLS!

This problem comes up so often Kirata. Conservatives are against the Theory of Evolution but don't know crap about the actual science involved. They are against the Theory of Climate Change but are against it because others have told them how to think. They are against Stem Cell Research on the belief that those cells could be used to clone humans; when the reality is those cells could NEVER become human on their own! They are against the Affordable Care Act, but how many of them have actually sat down and .....READ.....THE.....ACT? Its been on the law books for over three years, why are there so many uninformed conservatives?

The issue with voter fraud according to the factual information so far, is that its not taking place on even a tiny level to affect a general or mid-term election. Nor even approaching the scale Republicans keep pushing. This nation has a huge number of problems; voter fraud is really not one of them.




joether -> RE: Republicans Limiting The Vote (8/16/2013 4:50:36 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: BitYakin
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
And another Republican wild goose chase for a non citizen voter comes up with nothing.
http://www.dailycamera.com/news/boulder/ci_23864751/boulder-da-stan-garnett-clears-illegal-voters-gessler

Got to wonder how much these fools errands are costing state and country governments.

really comes up with NOTHING?

17 out of 155?

"But Coolidge presented documentation from several non-citizens who were improperly registered and who asked to be removed when contacted by the Secretary of State's Office"

I'd say 155 cleared out of 155 suspected = nothing


Lets just say for the sake of the argument, all 155 were indeed illegal votes. Would it have affected the Race for the White House?

Obama: 50% (62,307,551 votes)
Rommey: 47% (58,938,472)

That's 121,246,023 votes total. So those 155 illegal votes, had they all been real, would have been just 0.000001% of the vote. Now how many "0.000001%" go into "3.0%"? That 3% would be the difference between President Obama and Mr. Romney in the election.

SOURCE FOR DATA.

I'm willing to bet the remaining 138 suspected votes would have perfectly decent and innocent reasons for being suspected in the first place. A wife accidently used her maiden name, someone given a new name courtesy of the Witness Protection Program, someone spelled their name wrong on an application to vote. Yes, these things do happen and they are a rarity.




tj444 -> RE: Republicans Limiting The Vote (8/16/2013 5:57:39 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: BitYakin

you posted on a PUBLIC FORUM, if this was a PRIVATE conversation then you should have taken it PRIVATE

if what you post was an actual INTELLIGENT conversation I would be fine with that, but all you do is RANT,.. RANT,.. RANT.. consider yourself on IGNORE.. like I said, go RANT to someone else..




truckinslave -> RE: Republicans Limiting The Vote (8/16/2013 7:54:54 AM)

quote:

How do Voter ID laws prevent that?
They don't.


As regards absentee ballots:
One problem at a time.




truckinslave -> RE: Republicans Limiting The Vote (8/16/2013 7:56:49 AM)

quote:

Have you ever voted?
You sign a log book.


I venture to suggest that is not universal; and I know for a fact that if it is universal it has not been so for long




mnottertail -> RE: Republicans Limiting The Vote (8/16/2013 8:19:47 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

Got to wonder how much these fools errands are costing state and country governments.

And I have to wonder what fools who insist that the problem is either trivial or non-existent are costing us.

A sobering 2008 review of the illegal voting situation written by a former member of the Federal Election Commission and Counsel to the Assistant Attorney General for Civil Rights at the U.S. Department of Justice can be found here:

http://www.thecuttingedgenews.com/index.php?article=691

K.



Hans the partisan who couldnt be confirmed for that recess appointment to a FEC seat because of Justice Department objections, and a Heritage Foundation guy, is not a credible ptolmist, and since he did not give ANY credible citations it can be pretty well considered to be vacuous nutsuckerism.




BamaD -> RE: Republicans Limiting The Vote (8/16/2013 8:25:44 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: BitYakin


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

And another Republican wild goose chase for a non citizen voter comes up with nothing.
http://www.dailycamera.com/news/boulder/ci_23864751/boulder-da-stan-garnett-clears-illegal-voters-gessler

Got to wonder how much these fools errands are costing state and country governments.


really comes up with NOTHING?

17 out of 155?


"But Coolidge presented documentation from several non-citizens who were improperly registered and who asked to be removed when contacted by the Secretary of State's Office"

I'd say 155 cleared out of 155 suspected = nothing



17 of 155 for the slow ones out there (not you) that is over 10% and that's a big problem.




Hillwilliam -> RE: Republicans Limiting The Vote (8/16/2013 8:25:49 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: truckinslave

quote:

Have you ever voted?
You sign a log book.


I venture to suggest that is not universal; and I know for a fact that if it is universal it has not been so for long

Then, show it isn't. Every place I have lived, you sign in.

ETA. Basically, all you said in that post is "that might not be an issue in all 50 states"




truckinslave -> RE: Republicans Limiting The Vote (8/16/2013 8:35:52 AM)

Nah. You made the asserion; I challenged it.
The burden of proof is on you to prove your assertion, your blanket statement that when you vote you sign.
I voted in Georgia a couple decades ago when you didn't have to sign.
I voted in WV in the 90s. No signatures.




Hillwilliam -> RE: Republicans Limiting The Vote (8/16/2013 8:40:09 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: truckinslave

Nah. You made the asserion; I challenged it.
The burden of proof is on you to prove your assertion, your blanket statement that when you vote you sign.
I voted in Georgia a couple decades ago when you didn't have to sign.
I voted in WV in the 90s. No signatures.

See, that's how it works.

I'll still stick with the fact that it's feel good, knee jerk legislation that addresses a problem that has not been shown to actually exist.
It makes the exercise of a constitutional right more difficult for law abiding citizens
It cost taxpayer money
It adds to the size of an already bloated government.

Looking at the above 4 sentences, you'd think it was anti gun legislation passed by liberals wouldn't you?




truckinslave -> RE: Republicans Limiting The Vote (8/16/2013 8:52:57 AM)

quote:

I'll still stick with the fact that it's feel good, knee jerk legislation


So, you're not "sticking with":

Have you ever voted?
You sign a log book.



?




mnottertail -> RE: Republicans Limiting The Vote (8/16/2013 8:59:04 AM)

quote:


17 of 155 for the slow ones out there (not you) that is over 10% and that's a big problem.


For the interminably slow ones out there: 10% of the how many percent of the how many percent of the how many percent that cast a vote? That is the only significant number.

And how many of the 17 cases would have been caught by voter ID that were not caught already? Now if some IRS agent looked at teabagger groups and found 17 out of 155 cases of fraud the wailing and gnashing of teeth would be that of overzealous prosecution of the 91% who were law abiding citizens.

Stamp out stupidity and innumeracy.






DomKen -> RE: Republicans Limiting The Vote (8/16/2013 9:28:50 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: BitYakin


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

And another Republican wild goose chase for a non citizen voter comes up with nothing.
http://www.dailycamera.com/news/boulder/ci_23864751/boulder-da-stan-garnett-clears-illegal-voters-gessler

Got to wonder how much these fools errands are costing state and country governments.


really comes up with NOTHING?

17 out of 155?


"But Coolidge presented documentation from several non-citizens who were improperly registered and who asked to be removed when contacted by the Secretary of State's Office"

I'd say 155 cleared out of 155 suspected = nothing



Wrong as usual. The article was about the 17 in the county in question. every single one of which was a citizen. You're welcome to try and find any information that any other county found any noncitizens on their lists.




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