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DesideriScuri -> RE: Republicans Limiting The Vote (8/20/2013 5:50:01 AM)
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ORIGINAL: joether
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ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
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ORIGINAL: joether
The Gun Control debate is entirely different. Your comparing muffler performance to games sold through EA Games. When someone commits voter fraud, no one goes to the hospital or county morgue! Can you say the same about firearms? Firearms are relatively easy to obtain and use; voting can only be performed on very specific days as decided by the laws of society. An accidental vote cast can take place and be corrected; an accidental discharge of a firearm can have very deadly set of outcomes. As you see, these are two very different concepts being debated here.
They are not different. Neither "solution" that is being pushed is 100% effective. Agree or Disagree?
Hill stated that he won't support Voter ID laws because they aren't perfect (100% effective). Is that simply a subjective standard, or is that the across the board standard for gaining his support?
I disagree with Voter ID laws for a few basic reasons:
A ) The data and studies gathered so far of the past four general elections shows the amount of voter fraud in each statue of the union to be so low as to render its impact on the final vote irrelevant. As I said before, if the percentage of voter fraud was 0.01%, that might be one thing. But that would be well over 100,000 acts of voter fraud taking place. Call it an educated guess that...SOMEONE...would notice the extra boxes of votes that are unverified by town/city clerks as being suspicious. In my state, there has been 2016 acts of voter fraud. Only one of those causes was legitimately voter fraud. In three general election votes.
B ) The idea that I'm accused of:
1) Not being who I state I am,
2 ) Not residing where I state that I live,
3 ) Or not being who I state nor living where I state.
Last I checked this is the United States of America, NOT, Nazi Germany or Stalinist Russia. One is consider innocent of wrong doing until proven beyond a shadow of doubt in a court of law like any other crime. I state who I am and where I live, that should be sufficient for the government. If someone doesn't like that, its up to them to give the burden of proof....FIRST!
And, we've been round and round with that. There is no way for someone to prove you are not who you say you are when you're lying, unless they are the person you are claiming to be or living where you say you are living.
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C ) The amount of money being spent in states to create, maintain, and fight in the courts is a silly waste of money. It will be overturned in the courts sooner or later. I'm both surprised and amused by all the 'fiscal conservatives' that bitch about wasteful spending are completely silent on this issue. If your going to bitch at the guy you didn't vote on but was elected; that means you'll hold the guy you do elect to office to twice the level of accountability and responsibility. But if you give the person you elected to office a blank check on both, than what does that really say of your philosophy and character?
Where has anyone given a "blank check" to the guy they support and held the guy they don't support to twice the level of accountability and responsibility?
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D ) "The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized." The 4th Amendment. Why does election committee need to know whether I wear corrective lenses of contacts? I could understand the Dept. of Motor Vehicles need for such information. That information is on my Driver's License. In addition, the code that links my personal information to my driving history; why does the election committee need that information? I do not see any real justification for this part of the government seeing my 'papers' after I stated effectively 'under oath' while in front of a law enforcement official that I am who I say I am, and live where I state I live.
I find it reasonable that someone should provide identification. Are you seriously equating asking for ID to search and seizure? Do you run driver checkpoints, too, based on your 4th amendment?
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E ) What is the penalty for each act of voter fraud by one person? Funny how the Republican Party doesn't publish this information. Here is Mississippi's Penalty for Voter Fraud by the Guilty! Go right ahead and commit your 3000 acts of voter fraud; that's up to $3 million in fines you'll be shelling out as you spend the next 300 years in prison! You willing to pay huge fines and go to prison for most of your life just to see someone elected to office that doesn't know you exist much less care?
I agree that some average joe/jane engaging in voter fraud would be stupid, but if there was a "machine" that enlisted everyday joes and janes...
Do you recall the "if we support Obama, he'll give back to us" [paraphrased] lady? I'm not saying she participated in voter fraud, but when you have people that take such an incredibly ignorant view of reality, it is not difficult to see how they can be manipulated, is it?
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