RE: Republicans Limiting The Vote

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BitYakin -> RE: Republicans Limiting The Vote (8/14/2013 10:44:35 PM)
quote: Registering to vote requires proof of citizenship and proof of address. Most, All?, states send out a voter ID card that verifies that the voter is still at the same address. well I can't speak for all states, but in missouri as of this time, registering to vote does NOT require any proof of citizenship, all thats required in missouri is a utility bill http://www.dss.mo.gov/fsd/voter_registration.pdf 6. Optional – If registering by mail for the first time, please submit a copy of one of the following forms of identification: current or valid photo ID, current utility bill, bank statement government check, paycheck or other government document that shows your name and address, birth certificate, Native American tribal document or other proof of United States citizenship. (You will be required to present identification when you vote.)

BitYakin -> RE: Republicans Limiting The Vote (8/14/2013 10:50:38 PM)
quote: quote: Why do these new voter ID laws uniformly reject expired DL's and ID's, the sort many retired and disabled people have? I can agree with you to a point that these should also be accepted. However, if an expired DL/ID isn't shredded, it could be used by someone other than the person. And, the expired DL/ID may no longer show the correct address. Other than those issues, I see no reason for them to not be acceptable. ALSO, if you move to another state and get a DL there and do not surrender your previous DL you now have TWO DL's from TWO STATES, at one time I actually had THREE, one from missouri, colo, and texas!

DomKen -> RE: Republicans Limiting The Vote (8/14/2013 11:21:46 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BitYakin quote: Registering to vote requires proof of citizenship and proof of address. Most, All?, states send out a voter ID card that verifies that the voter is still at the same address. well I can't speak for all states, but in missouri as of this time, registering to vote does NOT require any proof of citizenship, all thats required in missouri is a utility bill http://www.dss.mo.gov/fsd/voter_registration.pdf 6. Optional – If registering by mail for the first time, please submit a copy of one of the following forms of identification: current or valid photo ID, current utility bill, bank statement government check, paycheck or other government document that shows your name and address, birth certificate, Native American tribal document or other proof of United States citizenship. (You will be required to present identification when you vote.) Seems like they establish citizenship right there. No need to change the law.

BitYakin -> RE: Republicans Limiting The Vote (8/14/2013 11:42:26 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen quote: ORIGINAL: BitYakin quote: Registering to vote requires proof of citizenship and proof of address. Most, All?, states send out a voter ID card that verifies that the voter is still at the same address. well I can't speak for all states, but in missouri as of this time, registering to vote does NOT require any proof of citizenship, all thats required in missouri is a utility bill http://www.dss.mo.gov/fsd/voter_registration.pdf 6. Optional – If registering by mail for the first time, please submit a copy of one of the following forms of identification: current or valid photo ID, current utility bill, bank statement government check, paycheck or other government document that shows your name and address, birth certificate, Native American tribal document or other proof of United States citizenship. (You will be required to present identification when you vote.) Seems like they establish citizenship right there. No need to change the law. REALLLY a UTILITY BILL establishes CITIZENSHIP??? how does a UITILITY BILL establish citizenship? http://www.sos.mo.gov/elections/voterid/ Acceptable IDs to Vote Registered voters need to present ONLY ONE of the following types of ID (examples only): ID issued by the Federal Government, state of Missouri, or a local election authority; ID issued by a Missouri institution (public or private) of higher education, including a university, college, vocational and technical school; A copy of a current utility bill, bank statement, paycheck, government check or other government document that contains the name and address of the voter; Driver's license or state identification card issued by another state.

DomKen -> RE: Republicans Limiting The Vote (8/15/2013 5:32:28 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BitYakin quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen quote: ORIGINAL: BitYakin quote: Registering to vote requires proof of citizenship and proof of address. Most, All?, states send out a voter ID card that verifies that the voter is still at the same address. well I can't speak for all states, but in missouri as of this time, registering to vote does NOT require any proof of citizenship, all thats required in missouri is a utility bill http://www.dss.mo.gov/fsd/voter_registration.pdf 6. Optional – If registering by mail for the first time, please submit a copy of one of the following forms of identification: current or valid photo ID, current utility bill, bank statement government check, paycheck or other government document that shows your name and address, birth certificate, Native American tribal document or other proof of United States citizenship. (You will be required to present identification when you vote.) Seems like they establish citizenship right there. No need to change the law. REALLLY a UTILITY BILL establishes CITIZENSHIP??? Try reading the part I bolded. Have someone explain any of the words you don't understand.

DesideriScuri -> RE: Republicans Limiting The Vote (8/15/2013 5:45:45 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen quote: ORIGINAL: BitYakin quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen quote: ORIGINAL: BitYakin quote: Registering to vote requires proof of citizenship and proof of address. Most, All?, states send out a voter ID card that verifies that the voter is still at the same address. well I can't speak for all states, but in missouri as of this time, registering to vote does NOT require any proof of citizenship, all thats required in missouri is a utility bill http://www.dss.mo.gov/fsd/voter_registration.pdf 6. Optional – If registering by mail for the first time, please submit a copy of one of the following forms of identification: current or valid photo ID, current utility bill, bank statement government check, paycheck or other government document that shows your name and address, birth certificate, Native American tribal document or other proof of United States citizenship. (You will be required to present identification when you vote.) Seems like they establish citizenship right there. No need to change the law. REALLLY a UTILITY BILL establishes CITIZENSHIP??? Try reading the part I bolded. Have someone explain any of the words you don't understand. But, but, but, but.... isn't that your support of a Voter ID law, Ken?!?

DomKen -> RE: Republicans Limiting The Vote (8/15/2013 5:59:36 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen quote: ORIGINAL: BitYakin quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen quote: ORIGINAL: BitYakin quote: Registering to vote requires proof of citizenship and proof of address. Most, All?, states send out a voter ID card that verifies that the voter is still at the same address. well I can't speak for all states, but in missouri as of this time, registering to vote does NOT require any proof of citizenship, all thats required in missouri is a utility bill http://www.dss.mo.gov/fsd/voter_registration.pdf 6. Optional – If registering by mail for the first time, please submit a copy of one of the following forms of identification: current or valid photo ID, current utility bill, bank statement government check, paycheck or other government document that shows your name and address, birth certificate, Native American tribal document or other proof of United States citizenship. (You will be required to present identification when you vote.) Seems like they establish citizenship right there. No need to change the law. REALLLY a UTILITY BILL establishes CITIZENSHIP??? Try reading the part I bolded. Have someone explain any of the words you don't understand. But, but, but, but.... isn't that your support of a Voter ID law, Ken?!? Maybe you don't understand the point I, and a number of other people on this thread, have been trying to make. Establishing citizenship at registration is fine, that includes establishing citizenship the first time someone votes after something like a mailed in registration. What I oppose is very restrictive voter ID laws that serve no purpose but to disenfranchise groups perceived to be more likely to vote for Democrats.

DesideriScuri -> RE: Republicans Limiting The Vote (8/15/2013 6:13:44 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen Maybe you don't understand the point I, and a number of other people on this thread, have been trying to make. Establishing citizenship at registration is fine, that includes establishing citizenship the first time someone votes after something like a mailed in registration. What I oppose is very restrictive voter ID laws that serve no purpose but to disenfranchise groups perceived to be more likely to vote for Democrats. "Very Restrictive?!?!?" How would one establish citizenship when they go vote? Perhaps, a valid Government ID? If they can do that, why not simply do that each and every time? Is the poll worker going to know that each person on the voter roll is, for sure, a citizen? That it's their first time voting? That the person is who he/she says he/she is? I get the idea that someone who has voted for the last 50 years and is known by every single person in the tri-State area could probably not need to show ID, but what of those who haven't? Who have recently moved? Etc.? I'd rather err on the side of requiring ID, adding in exemptions for certain people. I'd also like to see a program in each locality that would help those without ID to get one. And, that program be free for the participants. And, a State ID be free for those who can't afford it.

tazzygirl -> RE: Republicans Limiting The Vote (8/15/2013 6:36:47 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BitYakin quote: quote: Why do these new voter ID laws uniformly reject expired DL's and ID's, the sort many retired and disabled people have? I can agree with you to a point that these should also be accepted. However, if an expired DL/ID isn't shredded, it could be used by someone other than the person. And, the expired DL/ID may no longer show the correct address. Other than those issues, I see no reason for them to not be acceptable. ALSO, if you move to another state and get a DL there and do not surrender your previous DL you now have TWO DL's from TWO STATES, at one time I actually had THREE, one from missouri, colo, and texas! Missouri law.... OUT-OF-STATE DRIVER LICENSE TRANSFER If you have a valid Driver License issued by another state or a Driver License which has been expired for less than 184 days, and you are applying for a Missouri Driver License, you must surrender your out-of-state license to the clerk. Refer to Chapter 2 to determine which tests you will be required to pass before applying for a Missouri Driver License. http://www.modot.org/othertransportation/bike_ped/documents/dlguide.pdf Texas.... If you already have a license from another state and you’re at least 18 years old, you will need to do the following when applying for a drivers license: Provide your Social Security Number. Show proof of identity. If you own a vehicle, provide proof that it is registered in TX and that you carry sufficient liability insurance. Complete the required forms and pay the necessary fee. Take a vision examination. Surrender your previous out-of-state license. http://driversed.com/dmv/texas/Texas-new-resident.aspx Colorado... New Colorado Residents New residents with an out-of-state license must obtain a Colorado driver's license upon establishing a permanent residence in CO. (A resident is defined as a citizen who has lived in Colorado for 90 continuous days; or upon becoming employed, whichever occurs first). When heading to the DMV, be sure to bring the license from your former state as you will be required to surrender it in order to obtain the new license. http://www.testquestionsandanswers.com/drivers-license/colorado.html Times they are a'changin' [;)]

tazzygirl -> RE: Republicans Limiting The Vote (8/15/2013 6:40:26 AM)
quote: REALLLY a UTILITY BILL establishes CITIZENSHIP??? how does a UITILITY BILL establish citizenship? I needed both a SS number and a License number to turn on my power here. Dont most utilities require that?

Zonie63 -> RE: Republicans Limiting The Vote (8/15/2013 6:58:50 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri I'd rather err on the side of requiring ID, adding in exemptions for certain people. I'd also like to see a program in each locality that would help those without ID to get one. And, that program be free for the participants. And, a State ID be free for those who can't afford it. I agree with this. I think this would solve most of the concerns being raised, since ID cards do cost money. So, if states are required to issue free identification cards to citizens who request them, then that may do the trick. Passports and passport cards should also be issued free upon request (whether people can afford it or not). On the other hand, I do find it hard to fathom that anyone in this day and age can get along without some form of ID. When I was a teenager, I was counting the days before I was old enough to get a driver's license. A few years later, I cherished my ID as I needed it to get into bars and buy cigarettes. (I was out with some buddies going to a bar once, and one of the guys in our group forgot his ID. Everyone was pissed at him because we had to go back and get it.) Having and carrying ID at all times just became automatic for me, so it is a bit curious that there are people who either have no ID or don't regularly carry their ID. I'm not saying that people have to, nor am I advocating any laws here, but it's just something I find curious. How can someone get by without an ID?

Hillwilliam -> RE: Republicans Limiting The Vote (8/15/2013 7:10:38 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Zonie63 Having and carrying ID at all times just became automatic for me, so it is a bit curious that there are people who either have no ID or don't regularly carry their ID. You've made those in charge very happy. All their hard work paid off.

tazzygirl -> RE: Republicans Limiting The Vote (8/15/2013 7:40:16 AM)
quote: On the other hand, I do find it hard to fathom that anyone in this day and age can get along without some form of ID. When I was a teenager, I was counting the days before I was old enough to get a driver's license. A few years later, I cherished my ID as I needed it to get into bars and buy cigarettes. (I was out with some buddies going to a bar once, and one of the guys in our group forgot his ID. Everyone was pissed at him because we had to go back and get it.) Many of us are speaking mainly about people who are our parents generation or even older. http://www.phillytrib.com/newsarticles/item/3784-seniors-hit-hard-by-voter-id-law.html You might want to read that for a better understanding of what many people are talking about.

tj444 -> RE: Republicans Limiting The Vote (8/15/2013 7:43:09 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Zonie63 quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri I'd rather err on the side of requiring ID, adding in exemptions for certain people. I'd also like to see a program in each locality that would help those without ID to get one. And, that program be free for the participants. And, a State ID be free for those who can't afford it. I agree with this. I think this would solve most of the concerns being raised, since ID cards do cost money. So, if states are required to issue free identification cards to citizens who request them, then that may do the trick. Passports and passport cards should also be issued free upon request (whether people can afford it or not). The state issued id is free for some people in NC (I think) but that is not the issue, for some people if the closest place for getting the id is several hundreds of miles away, that is the issue cuz obviously they don't drive or have a vehicle so no way to get there.. and in addition to that, don't they need a birth certificate to get the id? I lost my ID once and that was hell.. and I don't carry all my ID with me like some people do.. One time I found a guys wallet and it was 2 inches thick with all the cards & ID he had collected over his entire life.. how do you even start to replace all that? Whether you lose your ID or don't have any, its like going thru hell to get, imo.. just sayin'

BitYakin -> RE: Republicans Limiting The Vote (8/15/2013 7:50:05 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen quote: ORIGINAL: BitYakin quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen quote: ORIGINAL: BitYakin quote: Registering to vote requires proof of citizenship and proof of address. Most, All?, states send out a voter ID card that verifies that the voter is still at the same address. well I can't speak for all states, but in missouri as of this time, registering to vote does NOT require any proof of citizenship, all thats required in missouri is a utility bill http://www.dss.mo.gov/fsd/voter_registration.pdf 6. Optional – If registering by mail for the first time, please submit a copy of one of the following forms of identification: current or valid photo ID, current utility bill, bank statement government check, paycheck or other government document that shows your name and address, birth certificate, Native American tribal document or other proof of United States citizenship. (You will be required to present identification when you vote.) Seems like they establish citizenship right there. No need to change the law. REALLLY a UTILITY BILL establishes CITIZENSHIP??? Try reading the part I bolded. Have someone explain any of the words you don't understand. I read them and understand them QUITE FULLY... it says a UTILITY BILL is an acceptable form of ID, now I asked you to explain to me HOW a UTILITY BILL establishs CITIZENSHIP cause I have utility bills at my house in three differant names, from previous roomates that I just never changed them over to mine and just kept paying the bills when they come in, at one time I have utility bills in 4 differant names which effectively means I could register 3 times and vote a 3 differant locations and no one would ever be the wiser! also do you think illegal aliens DO NOT HAVE UTILITIES??? you remind me of somene else I know, who when they CANNOT give a resonable answer, they just stomp thier foot and say, welll because I SAID SO! answer the QUESTION! HOW does a utility bill extablisj citizenship! you and use it to register and use it as ID to vote in missouri!

tj444 -> RE: Republicans Limiting The Vote (8/15/2013 7:52:18 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl Surrender your previous out-of-state license if someone goes in and tells the dmv that they lost their license and get a replacement, then they find their original DL, now they have 2.. just like Zimmy had 2 passports and he surrendered the old one (that was about to expire) to the court.. without telling the court he had 2.. they found out but for a short time he could have left the country on the passport he kept..

BitYakin -> RE: Republicans Limiting The Vote (8/15/2013 8:01:12 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl quote: ORIGINAL: BitYakin quote: quote: Why do these new voter ID laws uniformly reject expired DL's and ID's, the sort many retired and disabled people have? I can agree with you to a point that these should also be accepted. However, if an expired DL/ID isn't shredded, it could be used by someone other than the person. And, the expired DL/ID may no longer show the correct address. Other than those issues, I see no reason for them to not be acceptable. ALSO, if you move to another state and get a DL there and do not surrender your previous DL you now have TWO DL's from TWO STATES, at one time I actually had THREE, one from missouri, colo, and texas! Missouri law.... OUT-OF-STATE DRIVER LICENSE TRANSFER If you have a valid Driver License issued by another state or a Driver License which has been expired for less than 184 days, and you are applying for a Missouri Driver License, you must surrender your out-of-state license to the clerk. Refer to Chapter 2 to determine which tests you will be required to pass before applying for a Missouri Driver License. http://www.modot.org/othertransportation/bike_ped/documents/dlguide.pdf Texas.... If you already have a license from another state and you’re at least 18 years old, you will need to do the following when applying for a drivers license: Provide your Social Security Number. Show proof of identity. If you own a vehicle, provide proof that it is registered in TX and that you carry sufficient liability insurance. Complete the required forms and pay the necessary fee. Take a vision examination. Surrender your previous out-of-state license. http://driversed.com/dmv/texas/Texas-new-resident.aspx Colorado... New Colorado Residents New residents with an out-of-state license must obtain a Colorado driver's license upon establishing a permanent residence in CO. (A resident is defined as a citizen who has lived in Colorado for 90 continuous days; or upon becoming employed, whichever occurs first). When heading to the DMV, be sure to bring the license from your former state as you will be required to surrender it in order to obtain the new license. http://www.testquestionsandanswers.com/drivers-license/colorado.html Times they are a'changin' [;)] NO they ARE NOT, those were the Laws at the time I did it, you just tell em, I don't have ONE! and the clerk says "OK here ya go!" ALSO, the post was about EXPIRED DL's and why they were NOT USABLE, suppose I grew up in missouri and KEPT my old expired DLs then went to another state, got a DL in THAT state, gave my VALID card to them but still had an OLD EXPIRED ONE, then stayed in that state long enough to RENEW that DL then moved and surrendered the VALID ONE and kept the expired on from that state, if a person REALLY WANTED TO, he could have an EXPIRED DL in all 50 states ALSO if you were really DETERMINED, you could just go from state to state, get a DL, the wait a week or so and go back and tell them you LOST THE CARD and get a replacement DL, and head to the NEXT STATE this doesn't even take alot of thought!

Hillwilliam -> RE: Republicans Limiting The Vote (8/15/2013 8:06:36 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BitYakin ALSO if you were really DETERMINED, you could just go from state to state, get a DL, the wait a week or so and go back and tell them you LOST THE CARD and get a replacement DL, and head to the NEXT STATE this doesn't even take alot of thought! And when they did a computer search of your SSN (which you need to apply for a DL), I would show multiple licenses (or attempts to obtain same) and you would end up with a bemused state trooper standing behind you fingering his handcuffs. Any time a person applies for a DL, the DMV does a multi state search to find out whether you have a DL in another state and whether it is suspended to has any restrictions on it. This has been true at least since '96 which is the last time I made an interstate move. If things worked the way you say, I could lose my license to a DUI and all I'd have to do is move 15 miles to NC or 20 to VA and claim residency to get a brand new license. It doesn't work that way. It doesn't take a lot of thought to figure that out.

Zonie63 -> RE: Republicans Limiting The Vote (8/15/2013 8:14:51 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam quote: ORIGINAL: Zonie63 Having and carrying ID at all times just became automatic for me, so it is a bit curious that there are people who either have no ID or don't regularly carry their ID. You've made those in charge very happy. All their hard work paid off. Well, no, I don't think they're really all that happy with me for some of the other things I say about them. But an ID is pretty basic though. If what you're saying is true, then it's those in the private sector constantly demanding ID are the ones truly making those in charge very happy. Why hasn't there been any outcry about that? I do have to have my driver's license every time I drive, so there's no way around that. But in most situations, it's been the private sector that has compelled me to carry ID, not the government. They're the ones who ask for it the most, while situations with the government are somewhat rarer by comparison.

BitYakin -> RE: Republicans Limiting The Vote (8/15/2013 8:58:16 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl quote: REALLLY a UTILITY BILL establishes CITIZENSHIP??? how does a UITILITY BILL establish citizenship? I needed both a SS number and a License number to turn on my power here. Dont most utilities require that? I did all my utilities over the phone, 100% never had to SHOW anyone anything! and really, sooo if you didn't have a liscense you can't have ELECTRIC???? don't know about where you live vut here in missouri its not a requirment to DRIVE to have LIGHTS and HEAT and a telephone! I do beleive they did ASK for a SS number, but I DOUBT they checked it!

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