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How fast is too fast to push limits or heavy kink subje... - 8/13/2013 8:09:34 AM   
NewDomMD


Posts: 2
Joined: 8/12/2013
Status: offline 		Ok, I am new to this long term M/s relationship thing. I have had plenty of experience dating and playing but nothing longer then a few months and never had the expectation of anything more then a casual thing both in and out of the "bedroom". I have fallen in love with my current girlfriend/sub and she has expressed the same for me. Now that said, I don't want to push her too fast and bread the great bond we have so far but I love to push limits and would like introduce some heavier and more wild kink I have participated to in the past. She has expressed no interest in them but has stated a willingness to move to a more "no limits" or even a slave based relationship in the future. Does this mean that these subjects could move out of the hard limit or no interest realm? Has anyone ever felt so comfortable with their Dom/Master/Top to do the things they ask even if it was a hard limit at one time? Am I asking too much from her or have unobtainable ideas? Any input or thoughts are gladly excepted from anyone both in public or private. Thanks
Profile   Post #: 1
RE: How fast is too fast to push limits or heavy kink s... - 8/13/2013 8:27:11 AM   
JeffBC


Posts: 5799
Joined: 2/12/2012
From: Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: NewDomMD]
Any input or thoughts are gladly excepted from anyone both in public or private. Thanks

I think you are overcomplicating things AND chasing a non-goal.

Overcomplication
Limits are born from one of two sources... either some sort of actual issue (Des has some of those) or a lack of trust. The first one can only be pushed at the root cause level. The second fixes itself if the dom in question is trustworthy. This is why I think the only real difference between D/s and M/s is how well the relationship works (ignoring, for a moment, people's labeling preferences).

Non-goal:
You want to push limits? Why? Every time I read this it sounds more like using your sub to score points in the BDSM community. Look how "masterly" I am... I push my subs limits... *yawn*. I don't really acknowledge limits the way BDSM folk talk about them but I push Carol when I think it is needful not because I'm competing on the "Who's the domliest dom" game show.

So all these limits you're so fired up to push... why? Because honestly if there is an actual purpose behind it and the sub in question is behind that purpose (or behind you in general) then pushing the limit is no problem... they help you. Shared goals are neat that way.


_____________________________

I'm a lover of "what is", not because I'm a spiritual person, but because it hurts when I argue with reality. -- Bryon Katie
"You're humbly arrogant" -- sunshinemiss
officially a member of the K Crowd

(in reply to NewDomMD)
Profile   Post #: 2
RE: How fast is too fast to push limits or heavy kink s... - 8/13/2013 9:35:44 AM   
OsideGirl


Posts: 14441
Joined: 7/1/2005
From: United States
Status: offline 		A couple of things:

1) There is no such thing as no limits. There is such a thing as corresponding limits. Just because my limits match his, doesn't mean that they cease to exist. It just means that I don't need to trot them out to protect myself.

2) My hard limits are there because they are things that would cause me harm or things I consider morally wrong. Try pushing those and you would find yourself single. Every thing else (IMO) is a soft limit and is movable under the right circumstances.

3) I've never understood this drive to "push limits". Our dynamic isn't about how kinky our sex can be. He never had an agenda about changing my soft limits. The changing of soft limits happened organically because we came to know and trust each other, not because he wanted a new merit badge.



_____________________________

Give a girl the right shoes and she will conquer the world. ~ Marilyn Monroe

The Accelerated Velocity of Terminological Inexactitude

(in reply to JeffBC)
Profile   Post #: 3
RE: How fast is too fast to push limits or heavy kink s... - 8/13/2013 11:22:27 AM   
jola37


Posts: 433
Joined: 7/8/2013
Status: offline 		agreed with all here, being into 'pushing someone's limits' in it's own right will I think inevitably lead to relationship breakdowns. I'm sure you wouldn't like being pushed and having your limits tested all the time, it's no different for anyone else.

I think though really in your post you answered your own question ;-)


quote:

ORIGINAL: NewDomMD

She has expressed no interest


Doesn't sound to me like someone who'd like their limits pushed in these areas.


(in reply to OsideGirl)
Profile   Post #: 4
RE: How fast is too fast to push limits or heavy kink s... - 8/13/2013 12:20:36 PM   
NewDomMD


Posts: 2
Joined: 8/12/2013
Status: offline 		Well, I totally understand what you have all said and appreciate the comments you have made. I have to say though it is by far not to show off for other dominants in a community as I have never met another dominant. I actually enjoy the feeling of pushing and the power exchange it entails when a woman submits to something new. Now, perhaps there may be a matter of syntax as to what each persons definition of a limit is?

I do really like the comment you made OsideGirl of letting things happen organically. Makes me want to slap my forehead and say "duh". Perhaps I am over thinking this a little too much? Just let things happen in the natural progression of the relationship? This might sound cheesy but I haven't ever fallen for a woman like this before so it's very new territory for me.

Thank you all for the comments.

(in reply to jola37)
Profile   Post #: 5
RE: How fast is too fast to push limits or heavy kink s... - 8/13/2013 12:56:14 PM   
AthenaSurrenders


Posts: 3582
Joined: 3/15/2012
Status: offline 		I think if she says something is a hard limit, you should resign yourself to never doing that particular thing. If in the future things change, great. But if you go into this expecting to do those things, you set yourselves up for trouble - you will be disappointed and/or she will feel unfairly pressured.

Limits do change over time. And there are zillions of new and intense things she can submit to without needing to remove her limits. Knives and needles are not limits for me, but it'd still be a huge thing when we started doing it together. It would be new, scary, intense, powerful and a big deal - do you see what I mean?

If she says her limit is... I dunno, fisting and suspension, and you immediately start fixating on pushing her to do those things, it seems a bit disrespectful of her. She becomes more of a fetish object than a partner - you get off specifically on the act of breaking a limit and the actual person and her preferences are secondary to that. I'm sure you don't feel that way about her, but it's something to think about. I would be very hurt if I agree to submit to someone and his immediate thought was 'great, how long til I can get rid of all your limits?'

_____________________________

Being your slave, what should I do but tend
Upon the hours and times of your desire?

(in reply to NewDomMD)
Profile   Post #: 6
RE: How fast is too fast to push limits or heavy kink s... - 8/13/2013 12:57:56 PM   
littlewonder


Posts: 15659
Status: offline 		You are both new so you both decide together when it's the best time to push. Talk, talk and then talk some more.
And when the time is right you both will know.

_____________________________

Nothing has changed
Everything has changed

(in reply to NewDomMD)
Profile   Post #: 7
RE: How fast is too fast to push limits or heavy kink s... - 8/13/2013 1:56:28 PM   
Arturas


Posts: 3245
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: NewDomMD

Ok, I am new to this long term M/s relationship thing. I have had plenty of experience dating and playing but nothing longer then a few months and never had the expectation of anything more then a casual thing both in and out of the "bedroom". I have fallen in love with my current girlfriend/sub and she has expressed the same for me. Now that said, I don't want to push her too fast and bread the great bond we have so far but I love to push limits and would like introduce some heavier and more wild kink I have participated to in the past. She has expressed no interest in them but has stated a willingness to move to a more "no limits" or even a slave based relationship in the future. Does this mean that these subjects could move out of the hard limit or no interest realm? Has anyone ever felt so comfortable with their Dom/Master/Top to do the things they ask even if it was a hard limit at one time? Am I asking too much from her or have unobtainable ideas? Any input or thoughts are gladly excepted from anyone both in public or private. Thanks


Be true to yourself for yourself and for her.

_____________________________

"We master Our world."

(in reply to NewDomMD)
Profile   Post #: 8
RE: How fast is too fast to push limits or heavy kink s... - 8/13/2013 6:21:28 PM   
JeffBC


Posts: 5799
Joined: 2/12/2012
From: Canada
Status: offline 		I had a thought. maybe this will help.

The problem with "pushing limits" is that there will be resistance. So you can push limits when you've got some plan to handle that. That's going to take two things.

A) You must know her well enough to read the signs... quickly and accurately.
B) You must be secure enough in your position that resistance doesn't result in you having a great big domly flounce.
C) You must know her well enough to know likely paths for "improvise, adapt, overcome" -- or "abandon ship" and you need to be able to pick wisely.
D) She must be comfortable enough with you to communicate clearly (the toughest one with Carol)

Basically, if you have all that then you've got a robust safety net so there's no risk.

_____________________________

I'm a lover of "what is", not because I'm a spiritual person, but because it hurts when I argue with reality. -- Bryon Katie
"You're humbly arrogant" -- sunshinemiss
officially a member of the K Crowd

(in reply to NewDomMD)
Profile   Post #: 9
RE: How fast is too fast to push limits or heavy kink s... - 8/13/2013 6:53:28 PM   
littleone35


Posts: 2828
Joined: 2/17/2005
Status: offline 		Master knows my hard lmits ans he has the same and if he trued to push my hard limits qous be a deal breaker causei if he did i could not trusr him anymore. They are hard lumits for a reasin. He knows my soft likits and if he want to push them he does not jump righ into it we talk first. Taking us alway a good ideam

Matt's littleone

(in reply to JeffBC)
Profile   Post #: 10
RE: How fast is too fast to push limits or heavy kink s... - 8/14/2013 2:29:05 PM   
Kana


Posts: 6676
Joined: 10/24/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: NewDomMD

Ok, I am new to this long term M/s relationship thing. I have had plenty of experience dating and playing but nothing longer then a few months and never had the expectation of anything more then a casual thing both in and out of the "bedroom". I have fallen in love with my current girlfriend/sub and she has expressed the same for me. Now that said, I don't want to push her too fast and bread the great bond we have so far but I love to push limits and would like introduce some heavier and more wild kink I have participated to in the past. She has expressed no interest in them but has stated a willingness to move to a more "no limits" or even a slave based relationship in the future. Does this mean that these subjects could move out of the hard limit or no interest realm? Has anyone ever felt so comfortable with their Dom/Master/Top to do the things they ask even if it was a hard limit at one time? Am I asking too much from her or have unobtainable ideas? Any input or thoughts are gladly excepted from anyone both in public or private. Thanks

What's the hurry-you have all the time in the world?
Organize less. Plan less. Be more. Let things flow organically. Let the relationship structure itself.
I hate to sound all hippie bullshit crystal jiving on you, but in this case it's the truth.
You're both new.You don't know the boundaries.
So don't limit them by defining them.Instead, let them find themselves.

Chuckles
Which, sad to say, usually involves some trial and error.Which means someone's gonna get a bit hurt.
Which is OK.That's how life goes. At 8 years in a relationship, I utterly misread something horribly this weekend, to her ill fortune. I'm human.These things happen. Try real hard to keep em from occurring but hey, I may be a dom, but i still fuck up.Apologized too. From the bottom of my heart.
Which is exactly what you do. Talk, set things right, move on as a we.


_____________________________

"One of God's own prototypes. A high-powered mutant of some kind never even considered for mass production. Too weird to live, and too rare to die. "
HST

(in reply to NewDomMD)
Profile   Post #: 11
RE: How fast is too fast to push limits or heavy kink s... - 8/14/2013 3:07:14 PM   
TieMeInKnottss


Posts: 1944
Joined: 9/6/2012
Status: offline 		I am only answering the second part "...felt so comfortable with partner that you eventually do something you once considered a hard limit".

Yes. My ex was my first Dom and I had a slew of "hard limits"... When you are new, it is likely that some things on the "no go" list are things you have never tried but are convinced you will not like. The more experienced people, I think, have stuff that they KNOW they don't want to do or do again. In my case, it was a matter of once I got to a level of attachment to him...I tried many things he liked that I had never wanted to do... Some ended up being things I now really like and others were things that went on the "tried it, hated it, never again" list for my 2nd involvement.

You never know. As the saying goes..try it you might like it. Since your both new you have any opportunity to explore and learn together. I

I am also in MD. If you are near Balto, check out BESS and, if closer to DC, check Black Rose. Both are educational groups who hold learning events and have special interest groups. You all may enjoy going as a couple.

(in reply to Kana)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: How fast is too fast to push limits or heavy kink s... - 8/14/2013 7:35:40 PM   
NuevaVida


Posts: 6707
Joined: 8/5/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kana

What's the hurry-you have all the time in the world?
Organize less. Plan less. Be more. Let things flow organically. Let the relationship structure itself.
I hate to sound all hippie bullshit crystal jiving on you, but in this case it's the truth.
You're both new.You don't know the boundaries.
So don't limit them by defining them.Instead, let them find themselves.


I love this. But then I love hippie bullshit crystal jiving shit.

quote:


Which, sad to say, usually involves some trial and error.Which means someone's gonna get a bit hurt.
Which is OK.That's how life goes. At 8 years in a relationship, I utterly misread something horribly this weekend, to her ill fortune. I'm human.These things happen. Try real hard to keep em from occurring but hey, I may be a dom, but i still fuck up.Apologized too. From the bottom of my heart.
Which is exactly what you do. Talk, set things right, move on as a we.


Love this, too. Not that there was a fuck up and she got hurt, but you're honesty in expressing that it happened.

It's happened with us, too. There is trial & error stuff. There are mistakes. There are BIG mistakes. Then there is making it right, and getting back on the right path...as a we. Part of what has made us so strong together has been his humility and raw honesty when things have gone wrong. During our hardest bumps in the road, I've seen his struggle, and I know his intention is to do right. I know and feel his love. So I take his hand, kiss it, forgive whatever happened, and we recover. Together.

_____________________________

Live Simply. Love Generously. Care Deeply. Speak Kindly.



(in reply to Kana)
Profile   Post #: 13
RE: How fast is too fast to push limits or heavy kink s... - 8/14/2013 8:10:13 PM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline 		It depends on what you need.

If you need her to love getting flogged and you need a positive response, and she's made it clear that she's willing to do this for you, but won't ever enjoy it, and may sob bitterly the whole time, then you've got a problem. If she's willing to do stuff for you, as long as you understand that it does nothing for her and her response may be negative, then you should be okay. Which doesn't mean she still won't need you to do the bad stuff in moderation and put a lot of stuff she does enjoy into use also.

But I'm really betting that you folks are talking at cross purposes. That she isn't thinking of ass raping with her bleeding for a week after on a nightly basis even if that's what you're thinking about. She's probably thinking sex slave, meaning lots of mutually enjoyable sex on a moment's notice.

Sit down and talk.

About hard limits. She probably will never agree to you chopping off her fingers. Or giving her seafood when you know it will cause anaphylaxic shock requiring immediate treatment or death. Or anything that she finds morally reprehensible.

What I'm curious about is why the only thing you can think of focusing on is that small list of stuff she can't do. And why not revel in the many things you can do happily and with great pleasure? To me, this kind of attitude tells me I am not going to have any respect for the person.

_____________________________

Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!


(in reply to NuevaVida)
Profile   Post #: 14
RE: How fast is too fast to push limits or heavy kink s... - 8/14/2013 9:11:50 PM   
littlewonder


Posts: 15659
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: NuevaVida

It's happened with us, too. There is trial & error stuff. There are mistakes. There are BIG mistakes. Then there is making it right, and getting back on the right path...as a we. Part of what has made us so strong together has been his humility and raw honesty when things have gone wrong. During our hardest bumps in the road, I've seen his struggle, and I know his intention is to do right. I know and feel his love. So I take his hand, kiss it, forgive whatever happened, and we recover. Together.


Yup, this is us. We are both pretty good at being honest about our mistakes, admitting them, talking it out, forgiving and moving on. Life is too short to not be otherwise and we would rather be happy than have some kind of tension between us.

It's one of the big things I love about him...his honesty, his ability to own up to it and not get angry over it and that he can sit and talk it through with me like two rational adults. We kiss, we make up and life goes on happily.



_____________________________

Nothing has changed
Everything has changed

(in reply to NuevaVida)
Profile   Post #: 15
RE: How fast is too fast to push limits or heavy kink s... - 8/14/2013 10:32:23 PM   
NuevaVida


Posts: 6707
Joined: 8/5/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: littlewonder

Yup, this is us. We are both pretty good at being honest about our mistakes, admitting them, talking it out, forgiving and moving on. Life is too short to not be otherwise and we would rather be happy than have some kind of tension between us.


We're the same. There's no room in our relationship for tension between us. If there's an issue, we face it together, and resolve it.

_____________________________

Live Simply. Love Generously. Care Deeply. Speak Kindly.



(in reply to littlewonder)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: How fast is too fast to push limits or heavy kink s... - 8/14/2013 10:53:37 PM   
ChatteParfaitt


Posts: 6562
Joined: 3/22/2011
From: The t'aint of the Midwest -- Indiana
Status: offline
quote:

What I'm curious about is why the only thing you can think of focusing on is that small list of stuff she can't do. And why not revel in the many things you can do happily and with great pleasure? To me, this kind of attitude tells me I am not going to have any respect for the person.


I agree with the above if it's a small list.

BUT, maybe it's not a small list. Some new s-types enter into relationships with a huge list of 'limits.'

I suggest the OP sit down with her and go over the list, and see which ones are actually in the hard limit column.



_____________________________



(in reply to NewDomMD)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: How fast is too fast to push limits or heavy kink s... - 8/14/2013 11:22:37 PM   
sub4me87


Posts: 7
Joined: 8/14/2013
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: NuevaVida


quote:

ORIGINAL: Kana

What's the hurry-you have all the time in the world?
Organize less. Plan less. Be more. Let things flow organically. Let the relationship structure itself.
I hate to sound all hippie bullshit crystal jiving on you, but in this case it's the truth.
You're both new.You don't know the boundaries.
So don't limit them by defining them.Instead, let them find themselves.


I love this. But then I love hippie bullshit crystal jiving shit.

quote:


Which, sad to say, usually involves some trial and error.Which means someone's gonna get a bit hurt.
Which is OK.That's how life goes. At 8 years in a relationship, I utterly misread something horribly this weekend, to her ill fortune. I'm human.These things happen. Try real hard to keep em from occurring but hey, I may be a dom, but i still fuck up.Apologized too. From the bottom of my heart.
Which is exactly what you do. Talk, set things right, move on as a we.


Love this, too. Not that there was a fuck up and she got hurt, but you're honesty in expressing that it happened.

It's happened with us, too. There is trial & error stuff. There are mistakes. There are BIG mistakes. Then there is making it right, and getting back on the right path...as a we. Part of what has made us so strong together has been his humility and raw honesty when things have gone wrong. During our hardest bumps in the road, I've seen his struggle, and I know his intention is to do right. I know and feel his love. So I take his hand, kiss it, forgive whatever happened, and we recover. Together.

I KNOW NOT MUCH OF ANYTHING XCEPT MY WANTING AND NEEDING AND CRAVING A SUBMISSIVE BOY IN THE LIFESTYLE
THEY SAY AGE DOES NOT MATTER BUT I FIND THAT ONLY MEN BETWEEN 18 AND TWENTY THREE WANT TO LISTEN FOR REAL
SO MAYBE YOUR NOT AT HER AGE FOR A MATURE NEXT LEVEL
I WISH THAT I COULD FIND A MAN WHO COULD JUST WANNA LOVE AND WORSHIP ME
EVEN BEING BEAUTIFUL I ONLY HAVE BROUGHT OUT THE UGLY IN RELATIONSHIPS
SO LET HER LEAD EVEN IF YOU WANT THE NEXT LEVEL OF KINK AND YOU ARE THE MASTER LET HER BE THE ONE WHO LETS THE LEAD BE THAT SHE BEING IN CHARGE OF ONLY WHAT SHE MIGHT DO THIS WILL MAKE HER TRUST FOR YOU REAL WITH NO RESENTMENTS OR REGRETS

(in reply to NuevaVida)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: How fast is too fast to push limits or heavy kink s... - 8/15/2013 5:24:59 AM   
DarkSteven


Posts: 28072
Joined: 5/2/2008
Status: offline 		OP, I think you might be confusing hard and soft limits. Hard limits are things that are serious and will cause loss of trust and likely the relationship if breached. Soft limits are things that she doesn't want to do, but under the right circumstances might try.

I suspect that you're thinking of either breaching her soft limits, which would take months of trust and openness, or else spending time pushing her hard limits to becoming soft limits, and then pushing past them.

_____________________________

"You women....

The small-breasted ones want larger breasts. The large-breasted ones want smaller ones. The straight-haired ones curl their hair, and the curly-haired ones straighten theirs...

Quit fretting. We men love you."

(in reply to sub4me87)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: How fast is too fast to push limits or heavy kink s... - 8/15/2013 8:01:15 AM   
ChatteParfaitt


Posts: 6562
Joined: 3/22/2011
From: The t'aint of the Midwest -- Indiana
Status: offline 		Please stop shouting at us. Using all caps is considered very rude, so stop.

_____________________________



(in reply to sub4me87)
Profile   Post #: 20
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