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RE: help getting PA medical card- friend becoming suicidal - 8/14/2013 8:08:49 AM   
Asyra


Posts: 618
Joined: 1/5/2010
Status: offline 		Sad. I think in Germany it doesn't have those cruel consequences... It's like being punished for being ill or in pain. Way to go for resocialisation.

(in reply to MasterCaneman)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: help getting PA medical card- friend becoming suicidal - 8/14/2013 8:18:11 AM   
evesgrden


Posts: 597
Joined: 6/9/2012
Status: offline 		How do you know you have a month? He won't pull the trigger as long as he has money in the bank? You're willing to bet his life on this? Oh wait.. you know he won't use the gun. (You know this, how?)

Get him to a free mental health clinic.

I know you have good intentions, but they know more about suicide than you do. For starters, they won't be going to an internet kink site for clinical advice in a life or death situation.

food for thought.

_____________________________

What you permit, you promote.

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Profile   Post #: 22
RE: help getting PA medical card- friend becoming suicidal - 8/14/2013 9:32:51 AM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: evesgrden

How do you know you have a month? He won't pull the trigger as long as he has money in the bank? You're willing to bet his life on this? Oh wait.. you know he won't use the gun. (You know this, how?)

Get him to a free mental health clinic.

I know you have good intentions, but they know more about suicide than you do. For starters, they won't be going to an internet kink site for clinical advice in a life or death situation.

food for thought.



I do pass along info to him. I see him on face book and I call him. He will take my calls. I have known him for a few months- not many years.

He frets so much he doesnt take things step by step.

He does have sisters and parents alive he is 40 years old.

I pass the info onto him. Thus far I have no called authorities to report him. Are you saying I should?

He can pay his bills for a month- so I figure things are safe-for a month.

We have mutual friends on fb.
He went to school with my sister in fact.

He had 3 back surgeries- had rods in his back- and his pain is real. Tho his depression is too.

He believed the dr who said he would be back to work in 8 weeks- so he spent 22,000$ on the latest surgery.

He was a truck driver.

I told him he can recover but it may be a few years.

(in reply to evesgrden)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: help getting PA medical card- friend becoming suicidal - 8/14/2013 11:06:18 AM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline
quote:

Suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem.


That needs to be the focus. Also it helps if the problems really are temporary. Sometimes they're not. The whole crux of the matter though is that you cannot watch everybody. Crazy people and criminals get guns all the time and if it isn't guns it could be a bottle of pills or rat poison or even an electrical cord. Hell it can be a plastic bag ! Can you see not allowing someone to have plastic bags ?

Most people cling to life like Glad wrap and simply cannot understand that sometimes it just ain't worth it. I have never been like that and I might as well admit that I almost did it many years ago. Once on the edge, all alone, I decided NO. That simple and now that I think about it I was doing quite a bit better then than now. Am I going to end it ? Of course, it is just a matter of when. There is always tomorrow, next month, next year, even longer. That option being open actually does help to make life more tolerable. I've been better, but I've been worse. I have lived under a bush in front of a church and the thought of ending it all never crossed my mind at the time. Not at all. Why then at some other time ?

Because that's not how it works. The desire to whack one's self comes from within, the only solution is within and it is not drugs. It is not letters after someone's name. It's not that these things cannot do any good, but certainly should be a last resort. In my case, one of the main reasonss I stay living is for the living. There are a couple of people whom I simply cannot harm by whacking myself. Me ? I am tired. I am tired of things (not my life personally but the world in general) always being the worst they've ever been. I am tired of the things I cannot change, I haven't the humility to accept them and I never will. Never, it is a foreign concept to me.

So now we got a guy with a check coming in and a gun collection ? Fuck.

T^T

(in reply to Gauge)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: help getting PA medical card- friend becoming suicidal - 8/14/2013 11:16:22 AM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline
quote:

He had 3 back surgeries- had rods in his back- and his pain is real. Tho his depression is too


He should be on disability or something. Money should not be an issue, why is it ? Maybe I missed something.

more later, gotta run.

I'lll edit if I can

(in reply to pahunkboy)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: help getting PA medical card- friend becoming suicidal - 8/14/2013 11:43:45 AM   
Gauge


Posts: 5689
Joined: 6/17/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Asyra

Careful with the idea of "Those who want to commit suicide don't talk about it, but just do it."
That's a common, wrong belief. Most suicides come after hints or talking about it. Great danger in not taking them seriously. It may start as a cry for help (which in my eyes makes it no less serious) and just end up in so much desperation that, well, you do it.



Perhaps I could have phrased it better but I was making the distinction between those that have already made up their mind and those that are in the process of weighing whether or not they really want to do it. Certainly every expression and sign that someone is suicidal should be taken seriously, I never said not to take someone seriously.

I was very tired when I wrote my post so my wording may have suffered. My apology to anyone that may have misunderstood what I said.

_____________________________

"For there is no folly of the beast of the earth which is not infinitely outdone by the madness of men." Herman Melville - Moby Dick

I'm wearing my chicken suit and humming La Marseillaise.

(in reply to Asyra)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: help getting PA medical card- friend becoming suicidal - 8/14/2013 11:58:45 AM   
Gauge


Posts: 5689
Joined: 6/17/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: evesgrden

How do you know you have a month? He won't pull the trigger as long as he has money in the bank? You're willing to bet his life on this? Oh wait.. you know he won't use the gun. (You know this, how?)

Get him to a free mental health clinic.

I know you have good intentions, but they know more about suicide than you do. For starters, they won't be going to an internet kink site for clinical advice in a life or death situation.

food for thought.



I do pass along info to him. I see him on face book and I call him. He will take my calls. I have known him for a few months- not many years.

He frets so much he doesnt take things step by step.

He does have sisters and parents alive he is 40 years old.

I pass the info onto him. Thus far I have no called authorities to report him. Are you saying I should?

He can pay his bills for a month- so I figure things are safe-for a month.

We have mutual friends on fb.
He went to school with my sister in fact.

He had 3 back surgeries- had rods in his back- and his pain is real. Tho his depression is too.

He believed the dr who said he would be back to work in 8 weeks- so he spent 22,000$ on the latest surgery.

He was a truck driver.

I told him he can recover but it may be a few years.


Look man, this isn't rocket science. Can't you talk to him and express your concerns to him? Ask him plainly if he is feeling suicidal and if so, should you be concerned. Also ask him if he would like you to help him get some treatment. The only reason to really get the authorities involved is if they are a direct threat to themselves or others. Since this person is a gun owner this could go from a very passive situation to a very dangerous one in a hurry, so going to the authorities now may be premature until you have actually asked him the questions I outlined. Depending on his answers the best course of action may well be to get the authorities involved, but the situation may not be that dire so find out.

Most counties have a mental Health/Mental Retardation office. A lot of those counties can help pay for treatment if you qualify for it. They can help with therapy, case workers and other services. If you don't qualify for total assistance then they can pay part of it and you pay the rest. Also there are plenty of drug companies that will give you prescribed medication if you qualify for it. Additionally hospitals offer Charity applications for people that cannot afford to pay their hospital bills, of course you have to qualify.

There are plenty of ways to get this person some help, but they have to want to be helped. Just telling him the different options for assistance may be enough to help lift his depression a little. So, don't be afraid to ask

_____________________________

"For there is no folly of the beast of the earth which is not infinitely outdone by the madness of men." Herman Melville - Moby Dick

I'm wearing my chicken suit and humming La Marseillaise.

(in reply to pahunkboy)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: help getting PA medical card- friend becoming suicidal - 8/14/2013 12:22:06 PM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		Last night I told him I was worried about him. He told me to worry about myself.

I plan to phone him tonight. I see he in on facebook right now. I have already told him to go to bed - cos if you stay up all night it wont help pain levels.


His spinal cord is all messed up= so he doesnt process info - in a linear manner.

I want to go hang out with him. But my pain levels have to be ok for that.

I dont think things are 911- yet- but that is the general direction it is going. I am going to re-read these replies.

I told him to get rid of that car- he has sat on it for 3 weeks now. I asked if his family could loan him money- he said his dad owes him.

If I get too pushy- he will cut me off. If I crash his space- and he does not like it- he might end the friendship.

(in reply to Gauge)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: help getting PA medical card- friend becoming suicidal - 8/14/2013 12:34:02 PM   
MariaB


Posts: 2969
Joined: 4/3/2007
Status: offline 		Termyn8or thanks for that post and for the insight into a suicidal mind. Like you say, why remove his guns when he can just as easily kill himself with a plastic bag. The thing is, if he makes that final decision to end it, he will do it regardless of guns or not.

I have had two friends who ended things. My best friend when we were 18, who talked about it often and who tried it often. I betrayed her in the end because I thought she was attention seeker. I have to live with that. Would I of had her committed? god yeah I would, if only I'd been a bit older and a bit more sensible.



_____________________________

My store is http://e-stimstore.com

(in reply to Gauge)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: help getting PA medical card- friend becoming suicidal - 8/14/2013 12:36:37 PM   
MariaB


Posts: 2969
Joined: 4/3/2007
Status: offline 		Get in touch with his family through facebook and tell them your concerns. You may lose a friendship but its only because you want to help.

_____________________________

My store is http://e-stimstore.com

(in reply to MariaB)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: help getting PA medical card- friend becoming suicidal - 8/14/2013 12:55:20 PM   
Gauge


Posts: 5689
Joined: 6/17/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MariaB

Termyn8or thanks for that post and for the insight into a suicidal mind. Like you say, why remove his guns when he can just as easily kill himself with a plastic bag. The thing is, if he makes that final decision to end it, he will do it regardless of guns or not.

I have had two friends who ended things. My best friend when we were 18, who talked about it often and who tried it often. I betrayed her in the end because I thought she was attention seeker. I have to live with that. Would I of had her committed? god yeah I would, if only I'd been a bit older and a bit more sensible.




Saying that you "betrayed her in the end" because you thought she was seeking attention is being pretty harsh on yourself, no? You saw someone that talked of suicide often and made multiple attempts. Obviously she didn't get the help she needed or she did get it and she really didn't want it. You can only do so much for someone and the story of The Boy Who Cried Wolf applies here. How were you to know that after multiple tries she would really go through with it? Maybe she was seeking attention and she wore people down around her until they became dismissive of her talking about killing herself. Then when she really needed the help everyone around her chalked it up to, "We've been through this before many times." That is her fault, not yours. Ultimately you did the only thing you could which was remain her friend and be there for her as best as you were able. While you may feel guilty, it wasn't your fault, nor was it your choice, it was hers and hers alone.

_____________________________

"For there is no folly of the beast of the earth which is not infinitely outdone by the madness of men." Herman Melville - Moby Dick

I'm wearing my chicken suit and humming La Marseillaise.

(in reply to MariaB)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: help getting PA medical card- friend becoming suicidal - 8/14/2013 1:10:51 PM   
MariaB


Posts: 2969
Joined: 4/3/2007
Status: offline 		Thanks Gauge, I know what you are saying but there are still regrets and I've been over things that should of happened and didn't a thousand times. I was just a girl, as she was and I neither had the maturity or the experience to deal with such a thing. A serious lesson it taught me is, take someone's suggestion of suicide seriously. There's an old wife's tale that says, 'people who talk about it or try half heartedly don't mean it'. When in fact, people who talk about it and try, what may seem to us like half hearted attempts are the ones who are most likely to do it.

_____________________________

My store is http://e-stimstore.com

(in reply to Gauge)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: help getting PA medical card- friend becoming suicidal - 8/14/2013 1:19:18 PM   
hlen5


Posts: 5890
Joined: 3/2/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterCaneman

.......... If someone is truly suicidal, they don't screw around-they do it. From what I can gather, this guy is more angry and frustrated than anything else. There's a big difference there.


You are right, some just do it. The vast majority are throwing off signals in their limited support group (some suicides have very few social resources). NEVER let a suicidal thought go unchallenged or unquestioned. NEVER.

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Profile   Post #: 33
RE: help getting PA medical card- friend becoming suicidal - 8/14/2013 1:22:32 PM   
hlen5


Posts: 5890
Joined: 3/2/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

He has 2 kids- so that will be something for him to think about.




Tell him that the children of suicides are 10 times more likely to kill themselves too. Does he want to set that example??

_____________________________



My fave Thread: http://www.collarchat.com/m_2626198/mpage_1/tm.htm

One time "Phallus Expert Extraordinaire"

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Profile   Post #: 34
RE: help getting PA medical card- friend becoming suicidal - 8/14/2013 1:56:27 PM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

quote:

He had 3 back surgeries- had rods in his back- and his pain is real. Tho his depression is too


He should be on disability or something. Money should not be an issue, why is it ? Maybe I missed something.

more later, gotta run.

I'lll edit if I can



Thats pending- his denial should happen this month. To be frank this guy is too honest. He thought he would be able to work again- even tho this worker comp injury had a nice settlement.

(in reply to Termyn8or)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: help getting PA medical card- friend becoming suicidal - 8/14/2013 1:58:50 PM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MariaB

Get in touch with his family through facebook and tell them your concerns. You may lose a friendship but its only because you want to help.


I am keeping an eye on all that. I do think he will be ok if he can just access the services he needs. The process sounds harder then when I went thru it.

(in reply to MariaB)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: help getting PA medical card- friend becoming suicidal - 8/14/2013 2:00:50 PM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline
quote:

Ask him plainly if he is feeling suicidal and if so, should you be concerned


Got it. He does talk to me- and that is a good sign. He does not have a drug or booze problem so that helps too.

(in reply to Gauge)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: help getting PA medical card- friend becoming suicidal - 8/14/2013 2:11:28 PM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		He isnt going to like this advice- but he could sell his guns to pay bills.

The tricky thing is if he shuts me out- then I am done.

(in reply to pahunkboy)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: help getting PA medical card- friend becoming suicidal - 8/14/2013 2:18:31 PM   
Gauge


Posts: 5689
Joined: 6/17/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

He isnt going to like this advice- but he could sell his guns to pay bills.

The tricky thing is if he shuts me out- then I am done.


Look, take care of one thing at a time. Almost everyone that is suicidal feels overwhelmed by their circumstances, hell, even those that aren't could get overwhelmed in his circumstances. Find out if he is suicidal. With that discussed then there are other places that you can point him to in order to get help. Just don't order him around, all you can do is assist him.

_____________________________

"For there is no folly of the beast of the earth which is not infinitely outdone by the madness of men." Herman Melville - Moby Dick

I'm wearing my chicken suit and humming La Marseillaise.

(in reply to pahunkboy)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: help getting PA medical card- friend becoming suicidal - 8/14/2013 2:19:36 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		He could also pawn his guns which would be a loan, (even to friends, not just pawnshops) which might give him some breathing room and a chance to get them back.

< Message edited by mnottertail -- 8/14/2013 2:20:01 PM >

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to Gauge)
Profile   Post #: 40
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