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Unbelievable - 8/15/2013 4:59:17 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline 		This Congressman doesn't believe white collar crimes should be crimes.
http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2013/08/15/2471911/congressman-doesnt-believe-white-collar-crime-exists/
Profile   Post #: 1
RE: Unbelievable - 8/15/2013 5:04:01 PM   
Politesub53


Posts: 14862
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline 		We have had similar sentiments in the UK recently....... An academic suggesting financial crimes shouldnt carry a jail sentence.

Unbelieveable just about sums it up.

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 2
RE: Unbelievable - 8/15/2013 7:58:03 PM   
Hillwilliam


Posts: 19394
Joined: 8/27/2008
Status: offline 		Ever read "The Godfather"?

When a young Tom Hagen wants to join the 'family business', Don Vito insists he go to college and become a lawyer.

His quote was "A lawyer with his briefcase can steal more money than a hundred men with guns".

_____________________________

Kinkier than a cheap garden hose.

Whoever said "Religion is the opiate of the masses" never heard Right Wing talk radio.

Don't blame me, I voted for Gary Johnson.

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RE: Unbelievable - 8/15/2013 8:05:52 PM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline 		FR

what they have done to this country in 200 years will take 500 years to fix and that is if everyone in this country had a simultaneous revelation of how bad the cancer of the just-us club has become. Funny you all would bring that up right after the appeals court did another abortion on the law.

This is so fucking sad and so out of the realm of most peoples abilities to deal with. Simply cant raise a family and police the police and legislature all at the same time.

The law applies to you not them and if it does apply to them they will shift it so it applies to you. Just remember that and everyone will be just fine.




anyway it begs the question "what are you gonna do about it"? (and keep in mind there are big ears out here)








< Message edited by Real0ne -- 8/15/2013 8:09:44 PM >

_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

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RE: Unbelievable - 8/15/2013 8:48:27 PM   
RottenJohnny


Posts: 1677
Joined: 5/5/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
This Congressman doesn't believe white collar crimes should be crimes.


Your comment is a out of context for what he actually said but it was a very good example of not answering the guys question. Republicans just aren't going to support regulation.

_____________________________

"I find your arguments strewn with gaping defects in logic." - Mr. Spock

"Give me liberty or give me death." - Patrick Henry

I believe in common sense, not common opinions. - Me

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 5
RE: Unbelievable - 8/15/2013 9:52:24 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RottenJohnny


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
This Congressman doesn't believe white collar crimes should be crimes.


Your comment is a out of context for what he actually said but it was a very good example of not answering the guys question. Republicans just aren't going to support regulation.

He said "Well first of all, for a criminal practice there has to be a gun." Now since white collar criminals, by definition, do not use a gun to steal, he is clearly saying he does not feel those crimes should actually be crimes.

(in reply to RottenJohnny)
Profile   Post #: 6
RE: Unbelievable - 8/15/2013 10:54:10 PM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline 		How about a ball penis hammer instead ? Or a knife ? How about a bomb ?

You want to now how to straighten tis fucking shit out ? Oulaw fines. There are no more fines, EVERYONE goes to jail. Even for a parking ticket, you go on a Saturday afternoon or something. Embezzle a few million ? You make minimum wage in prison to pay it back.

If you get out of it with a fine, the fine is twice your net worth, and you arre exiled from the country as well as any good ones, I mean make it so prison would be fucking easier. I mean if you take $100,000 and you are worth fifty billion, the fine is 100 million. For a hundred fucking grand.

Do you want a fucking real deterrent ? You wanna see some change ?

You know the people who run our FDA do things all the time that their counterparts in CHINA would be EXECUTED for and our BANKERS do shit that they GO TO JAIL for in Iceland and a few other places. Our politicians do shit that would get them a new Bastille Day complete with guillotine in any good country. Other governments have LEARNED not to be this way. Know what taught them ? History. The history of consequences.

You see people busted for embezzling millions and get a fucking fine of a few hundrd grand, but if you or I take five bucks from a bank it would be a ten grand fine PLUS time in the fed lockup. If you are a bankster hough, you give up perhaps a half a day's pay. Yopu don't even really lose your job necessarily.

I say put their ass in a cell with the worst motherfucker in there. Let's see how these captains of industry think after being under the direction of the HNIC of the cellblock for a decade. Let the screws just say "yeaah, we've heard all this shit before" when they whine about getting raped up the ass and shit all the time.

If money wasn't important nobody would care about it. Now think about WHY horse stealing was a capital crime. And that's not really so bad, at least an armed robber did not violate the trust placed in them. Embezzlers did. The government did, and even what you mistakenly call "honest businessmen" did.

What is the worse crime, sticking a knife in someone's face and extractin a hundred bucks from them or fucking up their retirement account so that now that they cannot work, they never get a check again ?

The idea of resppnsibiloiy is not new in other places. They almost put a bunch of scientists in jail in Italy the other yeare for FAILING TO PREDICT an earthquake. There are other professions in which even an honest mistake has criminal penalties. And these motherfuckers who never worked a day in their lives want some sort of indemnification for their fucking greed based theft ? That they did not out of bn=necessity but just because they can ?

Yeah, I/we understand perfectly what they are saying. The second amendment needs to get off its ass. The government is not really the people you elect, it those for whom they woirk, and to whom they are loyal.

It shouldn't surprise peple that those ogliarchs have just as good security as government officials.......

T^T

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 7
RE: Unbelievable - 8/15/2013 11:11:03 PM   
RottenJohnny


Posts: 1677
Joined: 5/5/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
He said "Well first of all, for a criminal practice there has to be a gun." Now since white collar criminals, by definition, do not use a gun to steal, he is clearly saying he does not feel those crimes should actually be crimes.


No, he was responding to the gentleman's comment that "these institutions are criminal by nature" (an unfounded assumption) in order to suggest that no laws have been proven to be broken. Extrapolating beyond that using your logic then any unpleasant thing that happens to any of us is automatically a crime even if no laws have been broken.

_____________________________

"I find your arguments strewn with gaping defects in logic." - Mr. Spock

"Give me liberty or give me death." - Patrick Henry

I believe in common sense, not common opinions. - Me

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 8
RE: Unbelievable - 8/16/2013 2:13:26 AM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RottenJohnny


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
He said "Well first of all, for a criminal practice there has to be a gun." Now since white collar criminals, by definition, do not use a gun to steal, he is clearly saying he does not feel those crimes should actually be crimes.


No, he was responding to the gentleman's comment that "these institutions are criminal by nature" (an unfounded assumption) in order to suggest that no laws have been proven to be broken. Extrapolating beyond that using your logic then any unpleasant thing that happens to any of us is automatically a crime even if no laws have been broken.

The questioner had a point. The big investment banks and their cohorts on Wall St. committed numerous crimes that caused the present problems. They sold mortgage bonds with fraudulent ratings and selling deceptive and predatory mortgages. This whole catastrophe occurred those doomed to fail mortgages were bundled up into bonds and sold with prices based on a AAA rating they did not deserve then the bond holders, many of which had to have known the bonds were no good, sold credit default swaps, sort of a security that acts like insurance against the failure of the bond, on these supposed AAA bonds. In the late summer and fall of 2008 those bonds started to fail at a very high rate. The bond holders called in the CDS's on those bonds and the holders of those CDS were suddenly on the hook for a huge amount of money which they had not planned for since AAA bonds basically never fail. So this whole thing goes back to a series of frauds. First the mortgage providers who sold adjustable rate mortgages to people who they knew were not going to be able to make payments once the rate adjusted up. Then the bond issuers and bond rating agencies rating these mortgages as AAA. And finally the bond holders who sold enormous numbers of CDS on these bad bonds.

(in reply to RottenJohnny)
Profile   Post #: 9
RE: Unbelievable - 8/16/2013 5:31:22 AM   
RottenJohnny


Posts: 1677
Joined: 5/5/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
The questioner had a point. The big investment banks and their cohorts on Wall St. committed numerous crimes that caused the present problems. They sold mortgage bonds with fraudulent ratings and selling deceptive and predatory mortgages. This whole catastrophe occurred those doomed to fail mortgages were bundled up into bonds and sold with prices based on a AAA rating they did not deserve then the bond holders, many of which had to have known the bonds were no good, sold credit default swaps, sort of a security that acts like insurance against the failure of the bond, on these supposed AAA bonds. In the late summer and fall of 2008 those bonds started to fail at a very high rate. The bond holders called in the CDS's on those bonds and the holders of those CDS were suddenly on the hook for a huge amount of money which they had not planned for since AAA bonds basically never fail. So this whole thing goes back to a series of frauds. First the mortgage providers who sold adjustable rate mortgages to people who they knew were not going to be able to make payments once the rate adjusted up. Then the bond issuers and bond rating agencies rating these mortgages as AAA. And finally the bond holders who sold enormous numbers of CDS on these bad bonds.


You're intentionally or unintentionally using details written into the article to obscure the actual conversation. While everything you've just stated above may be true, none of that was part of the exchange between the questioner and the Congressman. There's no way to know exactly what the questioner was referring to nor whether or not the Congressman specifically understood it. You're attempting to impose a broad conclusion based on unsubmitted facts.

In other words, you're making shit up to fill in the gaps just to make the Congressman look bad.




_____________________________

"I find your arguments strewn with gaping defects in logic." - Mr. Spock

"Give me liberty or give me death." - Patrick Henry

I believe in common sense, not common opinions. - Me

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 10
RE: Unbelievable - 8/16/2013 5:49:43 AM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline 		but he is 500% correct no matter how much you apologize for them.

Not to mention the incestuous relationship between finance government and the police states guns

_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to RottenJohnny)
Profile   Post #: 11
RE: Unbelievable - 8/16/2013 6:01:10 AM   
Yachtie


Posts: 3593
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
He said "Well first of all, for a criminal practice there has to be a gun." Now since white collar criminals, by definition, do not use a gun to steal, he is clearly saying he does not feel those crimes should actually be crimes.



Just guessing here, but I'd say most burglars don't use guns. Guess a rapist with a knife isn't a criminal either. Now cops and SWAT teams use guns a lot, and do they ever practice too - ever hear of asset forfeiture where no charge is ever leveled for example?



_____________________________

“We all know it’s going to end badly, but in the meantime we can make some money.” - Jim Cramer, CNBC

“Those who ‘abjure’ violence can only do so because others are committing violence on their behalf.” - George Orwell

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: Unbelievable - 8/16/2013 7:00:10 AM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline 		after filling their pockets, destroying the economy in the process, not only stealing peoples shelters through deceptive business as usual practices of BANKSters the government comes in right behind and mops up by stealing the homes and putting people out on the street who became jobless as a result and could not pay their property taxes. It especially dooms older people.

Whats not to love about that shit?

I guess maybe thats just another one of "freedoms" weird idiosyncrasies.

_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to Yachtie)
Profile   Post #: 13
RE: Unbelievable - 8/16/2013 8:25:05 AM   
MrRodgers


Posts: 10542
Joined: 7/30/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RottenJohnny


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
The questioner had a point. The big investment banks and their cohorts on Wall St. committed numerous crimes that caused the present problems. They sold mortgage bonds with fraudulent ratings and selling deceptive and predatory mortgages. This whole catastrophe occurred those doomed to fail mortgages were bundled up into bonds and sold with prices based on a AAA rating they did not deserve then the bond holders, many of which had to have known the bonds were no good, sold credit default swaps, sort of a security that acts like insurance against the failure of the bond, on these supposed AAA bonds. In the late summer and fall of 2008 those bonds started to fail at a very high rate. The bond holders called in the CDS's on those bonds and the holders of those CDS were suddenly on the hook for a huge amount of money which they had not planned for since AAA bonds basically never fail. So this whole thing goes back to a series of frauds. First the mortgage providers who sold adjustable rate mortgages to people who they knew were not going to be able to make payments once the rate adjusted up. Then the bond issuers and bond rating agencies rating these mortgages as AAA. And finally the bond holders who sold enormous numbers of CDS on these bad bonds.


You're intentionally or unintentionally using details written into the article to obscure the actual conversation. While everything you've just stated above may be true, none of that was part of the exchange between the questioner and the Congressman. There's no way to know exactly what the questioner was referring to nor whether or not the Congressman specifically understood it. You're attempting to impose a broad conclusion based on unsubmitted facts.

In other words, you're making shit up to fill in the gaps just to make the Congressman look bad.

Not true. The questioner referred to laws that were changed that enabled he greed to take over. Now not only could everybody make money on shit-paper but now they could borrow money and make so much more. Without the change in law as he touched on...this would not have happened.

So we had essentially three areas of fraud. The questioner asked for a reinstatement of Glass-Steagall and other laws. Then the speaker changes the debate with his answer by suggesting that all crimes even of this nature...requires a gun.

one was the fixed rate mortgages that mysteriously became an adjustable.

then it was bundling them as securities that had a AAA rating '[purchased' for them often based on a variable interest rate.

then the insurers raked in premiums on their coverage but when it cam time to pay.....?

Our whole financial system runs on trust and is being run by people in which we have very little if any...trust.

(in reply to RottenJohnny)
Profile   Post #: 14
RE: Unbelievable - 8/16/2013 8:30:36 AM   
truckinslave


Posts: 3897
Joined: 6/16/2004
Status: offline
quote:

Oulaw fines. There are no more fines,


Well....

I certainly agree that wealthy people convicted of crimes should serve time.
(That's the biggest part of what I consider the easy peasy solution to illegal immigration: Find an illegal working at WalMart? Put the CEO in solitary for 72 hours. There will never ever be another illegal working at WalMart. Or KMart. Or Exxon.)
On the other hand, even modest fines may punish poor people more than a weekend in jail....

Make the punishment painful to the offender...

_____________________________

1. Islam and sharia are indivisible.
2. Sharia is barbaric, homophobic, violent, and inimical to the most basic Western values (including free speech and freedom of religion). (Yeah, I know: SEE: Irony 101).
ERGO: Islam has no place in America.

(in reply to Termyn8or)
Profile   Post #: 15
RE: Unbelievable - 8/16/2013 8:38:02 AM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		Isnt amazing that no one really wants this fixed?

If they did- they would not vote for republicrats.

(in reply to truckinslave)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: Unbelievable - 8/16/2013 10:00:18 AM   
JeffBC


Posts: 5799
Joined: 2/12/2012
From: Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

Isnt amazing that no one really wants this fixed?

If they did- they would not vote for republicrats.

this

If you vote democrat or republican in the elections you are voting for a fraudulent economy and wall street criminals.

_____________________________

I'm a lover of "what is", not because I'm a spiritual person, but because it hurts when I argue with reality. -- Bryon Katie
"You're humbly arrogant" -- sunshinemiss
officially a member of the K Crowd

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Profile   Post #: 17
RE: Unbelievable - 8/16/2013 10:42:46 AM   
FelineRanger


Posts: 658
Joined: 9/4/2012
Status: offline 		This pretty much says it all for me.




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

Bill

(in reply to JeffBC)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: Unbelievable - 8/16/2013 6:07:36 PM   
thishereboi


Posts: 14463
Joined: 6/19/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

This Congressman doesn't believe white collar crimes should be crimes.
http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2013/08/15/2471911/congressman-doesnt-believe-white-collar-crime-exists/



Now I am not saying that he said it because sometime in his past he has been guily of some type of white collar crime, but I would be doing some serious checking into his history if I were a prosecutor.

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This here is the boi formerly known as orfunboi


(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: Unbelievable - 8/17/2013 12:00:20 PM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline 		Funny, the Democrat Mayor of San Diego doesn't think groping women and sexual harrassment are any big deal either.
Go figure.

_____________________________

"But Your Honor, this is not a Jury of my Peers, these people are all decent, honest, law-abiding citizens!"

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 20
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