Amid Struggle For 'Soul' Of GOP, Libertarians Take Limelight by NPR STAFF August 17, 2013 4:47 PM Li (Full Version)

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pahunkboy -> Amid Struggle For 'Soul' Of GOP, Libertarians Take Limelight by NPR STAFF August 17, 2013 4:47 PM Li (8/17/2013 7:24:00 PM)

Amid Struggle For 'Soul' Of GOP, Libertarians Take Limelight

"There is no question that there is a civil war that is waging within the party."

That Republican conflict, political science professor David Cohen adds, isn't between just two sides, but among a number of factions, including libertarians.

One of the most public battles has involved national security and civil liberties. Leaks about the National Security Agency's surveillance programs raised alarms for libertarians about the government's reach.

Rep. Justin Amash of Michigan, a libertarian Republican, says recent surveillance leaks have "brought home" libertarian ideas.Enlarge image
Rep. Justin Amash of Michigan, a libertarian Republican, says recent surveillance leaks have "brought home" libertarian ideas.

J. Scott Applewhite/AP
On Thursday, The Washington Post reported that the NSA "has broken privacy rules or overstepped its legal authority thousands of times each year since Congress granted the agency broad new powers in 2008." The article and follow-up reports fuel the ongoing civil liberties debate. These leaks have helped push libertarian ideology into the limelight.

"I think it's really brought home many of the things that we've been talking about," says libertarian Rep. Justin Amash of Grand Rapids, Mich. "There's a real concern about a surveillance state that's been growing. There's concern that government is collecting much more information than it actually needs to prosecute terrorism."

Certainly, the government should be trying to track down terrorists, Amash tells NPR's Don Gonyea.

"I would say libertarian Republicans believe that national defense is the No. 1 priority of the federal government under the Constitution," Amash says. "But whatever we do has to comport with the Constitution. So we can't violate individual liberty; we can't violate privacy and property rights in the pursuit of terrorism."

At a GOP gathering last month, New Jersey Gov. Chris Christie called libertarian ideas about national security "dangerous."

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In a rebuttal, Kentucky Sen. Rand Paul — seen as stepping into his father's shoes as the new face of libertarianism — said he was the one "trying to grow the party by talking about libertarian ideas and privacy and the Internet, and attacking me isn't helping the party."

Cohen, a professor at the University of Akron in Ohio, says libertarianism is becoming appealing to more Republicans because of its popularity with a younger generation of voters.

"That is a demographic that they desperately need to do better with," he says. "That socially liberal, economically conservative, non-interventionist policy stance popular among libertarians is very appealing to younger, college-age people. ... Some of these people are disaffected Obama voters who have been turned off by the Obama administration's national security policies and foreign policies and interventionism."

In its summer meeting, the Republican National Committee discussed — if circuitously — how it plans to broaden its base in the years to come. Amid calls for strengthening the party, Chairman Reince Priebus encouraged debate.

U.S. Sen. Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.) greets supporters during the 133rd Annual Fancy Farm Picnic in Fancy Farm, Ky., Saturday, Aug. 3, 2013.
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"We should be roiling with new ideas, new leaders, and yes, some internal debates. Thank goodness we are," he said. "And I say bring on the conversations because they're a sign that this Republican Party is preparing itself to lead this country."

Ari Fleischer, White House press secretary for George W. Bush, says whenever a party isn't in the White House, "you're going to see a fight for the soul of that party until a nominee emerges."

He points to division within the Democratic Party in 2007 and 2008, when Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama went head-to-head for their party's support.

"But winning the White House takes care of a lot of that," Fleischer says. "It's Republicans' turn now to be out of the White House and fight for who the nominee is that will represent the party




RottenJohnny -> RE: Amid Struggle For 'Soul' Of GOP, Libertarians Take Limelight by NPR STAFF August 17, 2013 4:47 PM Li (8/18/2013 5:03:52 AM)

Amash will be an interesting guy to watch. He's already gotten booted from the House Budget Committee because he didn't vote party line.




pahunkboy -> RE: Amid Struggle For 'Soul' Of GOP, Libertarians Take Limelight by NPR STAFF August 17, 2013 4:47 PM Li (8/18/2013 7:51:00 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: RottenJohnny

Amash will be an interesting guy to watch. He's already gotten booted from the House Budget Committee because he didn't vote party line.



I like the guy. He describes every vote and why he voted the way he did. Even if I disagree with his vote- I like that he explained why. It shows respect.




RottenJohnny -> RE: Amid Struggle For 'Soul' Of GOP, Libertarians Take Limelight by NPR STAFF August 17, 2013 4:47 PM Li (8/18/2013 8:26:17 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

I like the guy. He describes every vote and why he voted the way he did. Even if I disagree with his vote- I like that he explained why. It shows respect.

So far, I like him too. He's got a lot to live up to considering he's from the same district as Gerald Ford. He's a little more pro-deregulation than I like but his otherwise strong performance and willingness to step away from the Repub hardliners keeps me from being too critical of that. He could have a strong future.




pahunkboy -> RE: Amid Struggle For 'Soul' Of GOP, Libertarians Take Limelight by NPR STAFF August 17, 2013 4:47 PM Li (8/18/2013 8:29:12 AM)

I certainly agree with you.




RottenJohnny -> RE: Amid Struggle For 'Soul' Of GOP, Libertarians Take Limelight by NPR STAFF August 17, 2013 4:47 PM Li (8/18/2013 8:58:57 AM)

Personally, I'm not sure what to think of the GOP at the moment. I tend to consider myself just right of center but I feel like they've abandoned middle-class people like me in order to maintain the cash flow provided by big business and big religion. Even the libertarians still seem a little too chummy with big business for my comfort. Other than just wanting to mix things up I'm not exactly sure what they're offering that's all that different. It doesn't seem like they've completely coalesced into a unified front yet. I just hope they get their shit together by the next election.




BislaveHaylee -> RE: Amid Struggle For 'Soul' Of GOP, Libertarians Take Limelight by NPR STAFF August 17, 2013 4:47 PM Li (8/18/2013 9:01:17 AM)

Libertarians struggle for soul of... omg. I died laughing at the title of this, like it's some big push that will change the world forever that people are dying over and they are like, struggling to survive while in pursuit of these ideals. x"D




RottenJohnny -> RE: Amid Struggle For 'Soul' Of GOP, Libertarians Take Limelight by NPR STAFF August 17, 2013 4:47 PM Li (8/18/2013 9:23:34 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: BislaveHaylee

Libertarians struggle for soul of... omg. I died laughing at the title of this, like it's some big push that will change the world forever that people are dying over and they are like, struggling to survive while in pursuit of these ideals. x"D

A little over-dramatic maybe but this fight certainly has the ability to change American politics.




Moonhead -> RE: Amid Struggle For 'Soul' Of GOP, Libertarians Take Limelight by NPR STAFF August 17, 2013 4:47 PM Li (8/18/2013 9:42:44 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: RottenJohnny


quote:

ORIGINAL: BislaveHaylee

Libertarians struggle for soul of... omg. I died laughing at the title of this, like it's some big push that will change the world forever that people are dying over and they are like, struggling to survive while in pursuit of these ideals. x"D

A little over-dramatic maybe but this fight certainly has the ability to change American politics.

How? By marginalising the GOP even further?




farglebargle -> RE: Amid Struggle For 'Soul' Of GOP, Libertarians Take Limelight by NPR STAFF August 17, 2013 4:47 PM Li (8/18/2013 9:45:19 AM)

REAL Libertarians aren't registered to vote!




Moonhead -> RE: Amid Struggle For 'Soul' Of GOP, Libertarians Take Limelight by NPR STAFF August 17, 2013 4:47 PM Li (8/18/2013 9:47:29 AM)

I do sometimes wonder how any alleged Libertarian can bear to vote for somebody who's standing for a Federal office, now that you mention that one.




leonine -> RE: Amid Struggle For 'Soul' Of GOP, Libertarians Take Limelight by NPR STAFF August 17, 2013 4:47 PM Li (8/18/2013 9:49:12 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: RottenJohnny


quote:

ORIGINAL: BislaveHaylee

Libertarians struggle for soul of... omg. I died laughing at the title of this, like it's some big push that will change the world forever that people are dying over and they are like, struggling to survive while in pursuit of these ideals. x"D

A little over-dramatic maybe but this fight certainly has the ability to change American politics.

It's a sideshow. Both parties' bosses could care less what people inside the party say, they listen to what their big donors want and go with that.




RottenJohnny -> RE: Amid Struggle For 'Soul' Of GOP, Libertarians Take Limelight by NPR STAFF August 17, 2013 4:47 PM Li (8/18/2013 9:49:20 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead
How? By marginalising the GOP even further?

The extreme right-wing, yes. Depending on how bad it gets, it could spawn another party entirely. Hard to say at this point.




Moonhead -> RE: Amid Struggle For 'Soul' Of GOP, Libertarians Take Limelight by NPR STAFF August 17, 2013 4:47 PM Li (8/18/2013 9:54:17 AM)

Spawning another party would probably be the best result they could hope for at this point: getting rid of the religious nutcases, the neocons and the sort of "libertarians" who seem more interested in a weird postmodernist revamp of feudalism than libertarian values would do the Republicans a lot of good.




pahunkboy -> RE: Amid Struggle For 'Soul' Of GOP, Libertarians Take Limelight by NPR STAFF August 17, 2013 4:47 PM Li (8/18/2013 9:58:43 AM)

quote:

It's a sideshow. Both parties' bosses could care less what people inside the party say, they listen to what their big donors want and go with that.


Aint that the truth.




RottenJohnny -> RE: Amid Struggle For 'Soul' Of GOP, Libertarians Take Limelight by NPR STAFF August 17, 2013 4:47 PM Li (8/18/2013 10:01:52 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

Spawning another party would probably be the best result they could hope for at this point: getting rid of the religious nutcases, the neocons and the sort of "libertarians" who seem more interested in a weird postmodernist revamp of feudalism than libertarian values would do the Republicans a lot of good.

The problem is that the population is so rooted in the two party system that new parties usually don't grab many followers and we're left getting stuck in the same shit election after election. The best result, in my opinion, is a Republican Party that comes back toward the center again.




Moonhead -> RE: Amid Struggle For 'Soul' Of GOP, Libertarians Take Limelight by NPR STAFF August 17, 2013 4:47 PM Li (8/18/2013 10:03:06 AM)

That wouldn't be the result of telling the rabid idiots to fuck off and form their own party, then?




RottenJohnny -> RE: Amid Struggle For 'Soul' Of GOP, Libertarians Take Limelight by NPR STAFF August 17, 2013 4:47 PM Li (8/18/2013 10:12:46 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

That wouldn't be the result of telling the rabid idiots to fuck off and form their own party, then?

That's just it. You can tell the rabid idiots to fuck off but they want control of one of the two parties because that's where the votes are. At this point, I'd be happy if they'd just shut up for a few elections.




RottenJohnny -> RE: Amid Struggle For 'Soul' Of GOP, Libertarians Take Limelight by NPR STAFF August 17, 2013 4:47 PM Li (8/18/2013 10:32:24 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: leonine
It's a sideshow. Both parties' bosses could care less what people inside the party say, they listen to what their big donors want and go with that.

That is certainly SOP.




Moonhead -> RE: Amid Struggle For 'Soul' Of GOP, Libertarians Take Limelight by NPR STAFF August 17, 2013 4:47 PM Li (8/18/2013 10:58:17 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: RottenJohnny


quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

That wouldn't be the result of telling the rabid idiots to fuck off and form their own party, then?

That's just it. You can tell the rabid idiots to fuck off but they want control of one of the two parties because that's where the votes are. At this point, I'd be happy if they'd just shut up for a few elections.

They're not sadly, and if the Republicans can't get rid of them, the harm they're causing that party is only going to get worse from here on in.




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