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Double Standards for Women - 8/17/2013 8:26:56 PM   
cloudboy


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I have been watching Homeland. In the last episode there was a scene where Carrie (the female heroine of the show) fucks Brodie (the most complex, tortured character in all of television) to help turn him around to keep him working for the CIA to prevent a terrorist act from being committed.

After the scene it struck me:

When James Bond sleeps with a woman as a part of his job, he's suave, respected, and idolized.

When Carrie did it, she was "whoring herself out" and "out of her mind." (From the POV of the other characters in the show.)

This is true even when Bond shares little attachment to his marks while Carrie is very emotionally invested in Brodie. (As in cares about him.)

A man is looked up to for fucking a woman, a woman is looked down upon for fucking a man. This is what struck me after watching the episode. It is tricky out there for you ladies.

I thought I might just throw this out there to counteract some of the naughtynick threads.

< Message edited by cloudboy -- 8/17/2013 8:28:28 PM >
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RE: Double Standards for Women - 8/17/2013 8:32:20 PM   
tj444


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well,.. Homeland is a much more realistic drama than a Bond movie is.. imo.. its a given that there will be at least one hot chickie that Bond fucks.. there will be guns bang, bang, bang and bombs that blow somethin' up, etc etc etc.. same story line over and over and over.. not so for Homeland.. just sayin'..

eta- Bond is like watching Bugs Bunny.. you know the wabbit always gets away..

< Message edited by tj444 -- 8/17/2013 8:33:17 PM >


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RE: Double Standards for Women - 8/17/2013 8:43:00 PM   
cloudboy


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There is no male equivalent for SLUT.

Point noted about the crazy comparison (JB to Homeland.)

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RE: Double Standards for Women - 8/17/2013 8:46:56 PM   
tj444


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quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy

There is no male equivalent for SLUT.

Point noted about the crazy comparison (JB to Homeland.)

lol I have called/referred to some men as sluts.. I don't find that an attractive quality in a man.. no man I would be interested in, at any rate..

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RE: Double Standards for Women - 8/17/2013 8:55:26 PM   
cloudboy


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Men never use the word in reference to each other.

slut |slət|
noun
a slovenly or promiscuous woman.

-----

There is no gender equivalent word for men. This is not an accident.

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RE: Double Standards for Women - 8/17/2013 9:05:24 PM   
tj444


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quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy


Men never use the word in reference to each other.

slut |slət|
noun
a slovenly or promiscuous woman.

-----

There is no gender equivalent word for men. This is not an accident.

I don't care what the dictionary says.. the dictionary is miles behind anyway.. the most progressive one is the Urban Dictionary.. lets see what I find there.. more and more people do indeed say men can be sluts.. oh, and don't kid yourself.. Bond is most definitely a slut!

a woman with the morals of a man

Refers to a sexually promiscuous person, usually female.

The swedish word for "the end".

A person of any gender who has the courage to lead life according to the radical proposition that sex is nice and pleasure is good for you
.


http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=slut

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RE: Double Standards for Women - 8/17/2013 9:14:35 PM   
Spiritedsub2


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When I was young "player" was a term for a male slut. Not as pejorative as slut, and nearly a compliment really!
I seem to remember reading that the double standard against women being sluts stems from the ancestral male need to be sure of their biological paternity of their woman's progeny.

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RE: Double Standards for Women - 8/17/2013 11:06:39 PM   
Darkfeather


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Actually, there is quite a bit of difference. Bond usually sleeps with women as a means to an end. Information, an enemy he needs to get close to, or just to pass the time. In Homeland, Carrie actually falls in love with Brodie. She see's herself in him, tortured soul who is all alone with no one he can talk to about his "problems". She may have said she was just getting close to him, to keep him placated, but watch the show and you will see. Even after he betrays her (and he pulls a whopper on her), she still is in love with him. She hates him, but still can't fight that monkey. In her defense, neither can he

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RE: Double Standards for Women - 8/18/2013 6:08:59 AM   
cloudboy


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A woman with the morals of a man. I've never heard it put that way before! Nice reference.

------------

DF: Will respond later when I've finished the 2nd season.

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RE: Double Standards for Women - 8/18/2013 6:20:56 AM   
Zonie63


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quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy

There is no male equivalent for SLUT.

Point noted about the crazy comparison (JB to Homeland.)


Perhaps not an exact equivalent, although promiscuous men might be called "womanizers," "horndogs," "poon hounds," etc. I've seen some negative portrayals of men who are excessively horny, usually secondary characters, such as "Ajax" in The Warriors or "Moe" in Slap Shot. They come across almost like they've got some kind of psychological problem or sex addiction. They'll fuck anybody. In contrast, the main character (like James Bond) is usually more discriminating, going for the more beautiful and classier women - the kind of women who, for most men, would be unobtainable, so James Bond is kind of viewed as a "hero" from that perspective - in addition to saving the free world from the forces of evil.




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RE: Double Standards for Women - 8/18/2013 6:26:34 AM   
ARIES83


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I wish you'd come out of P&R more often Zonie...

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RE: Double Standards for Women - 8/18/2013 7:17:09 AM   
cloudboy


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None of your references was a four letter word....

One cool thing about Carrie and Brodie, they operate in cheap red-neck bars, cabins without running water, the cramped back seats of cars, or seedy hotels. Bond's always operating at the Four Seasons level.

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RE: Double Standards for Women - 8/18/2013 7:46:10 AM   
NuevaVida


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I'm thinking of Samantha on Sex and the City. Her whole character was based on her love of sex and her not wanting to be in a relationship. She was portrayed as a strong, independent, affluent woman with high standards.

And unlike the Don Drapers of the world, she was honest and up front about who she was and what she wanted.

Her character is the only one who comes to mind, though.

Oh and the equivalent for male slut even though not a four letter word is man-whore.

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RE: Double Standards for Women - 8/18/2013 8:27:06 AM   
Zonie63


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quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy

None of your references was a four letter word....



Well, as I said, there may not be any exact equivalent. I'm not denying that there's a double standard in this area, but it's not as if men are given a free pass to do whatever they want - at least in terms of how they're positively or negatively portrayed in the media.

As for four letter words like "slut," I frankly believe that people use such words just because they know it carries a certain sting about it. There may not be any real equivalent of "slut" for a man because it doesn't really carry the same sting that it would for a woman. To sting a man, there might be other words and other areas of attack, such as with words like "wimp," "wuss," "pussy," etc. There may be a notion that men are expected to be manly (which may or may not include promiscuity), and if they're not, they're not "real men." So there seems to be opposite double standards for both genders.

The main problem with double standards is that they're often a knife which cuts both ways.


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RE: Double Standards for Women - 8/18/2013 8:41:17 AM   
Spiritedsub2


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^^^ Wise post!

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RE: Double Standards for Women - 8/18/2013 8:47:32 AM   
njlauren


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With men there have been various terms (I have heard players used for both men and women), pussy hound, horn dog, etc, but with men it generally to this day doesn't denote real condemnation, it is kind of like a sigh and 'he is a pussy hound', half in shaking your head, half in admiration, whereas slut for a woman is not a positive appellation in any context where it is normally used. It is the same way that to this day, and attractive woman who earns her way up the ladder often is subjected to back door chatter that she somehow 'slept her way to the top', I have heard comments made about the woman who now heads Yahoo, that she got there because she is a good looking woman (I don't like her for a lot of reasons, but that just gets me pissed off).

What is amazing is how long the attitudes about sex, and especially female sexuality, have hung around and poison things. Read any study about success in the male world of business, and what you find out is often success is based upon factors that often have not that much to do with ability and everything to do with certain bona fides. Friend of mine, who went to one of the elite liberal arts colleges, spoke with bitterness how at recruitment time the top end financial firms would be lining up the jocks to talk about jobs, even though there were brilliant students who outshone the jocks 6 ways to one; someone who is 6' 2, blond haired and blue eyed, to this day often will get the jobs and the opportunities, we used to laugh that being a trader or banker was like going on an amusement park ride, under 74" tall or a BMI above 20, look elsewhere, yet no one denigrates those who got those opportunities because of it. Business is full of people who were part of what we used to call someone's "mafia", they were buddies/social buddies/golf buddies with someone and get pulled up the ranks if one of them ascends the ladder, yet you rarely hear someone looking at someone who achieves a high position that you suspect is nepotism, and denigrate it, the way they do if an attractive woman makes it.

I suspect there is still a lot of insecurity in men, that they are scared of female sexuality. It reminds me a lot of the antebellum south, where a lot of the ways society was run was predicated upon the fear that the black slaves were going to revolt and slaughter all the whites, they are scared shitless of that happening and lived a lot of their lives in fear of that. With the white slave owners, they knew deep down if someone did to them what was happening to the slaves, they would resent and hate it; with male attitudes towards female sexuality, I kind of wonder if deep down those attitudes come from knowing women's sexuality in ways is more powerful than a man's (ie that they can have sex more often, they don't have the recycle time, etc) and are afraid that it would give woman a big advantage in being able to wield that (basically, saying, if I looked like she did, had that kind of sexual power, that is what I would do), so they do everything they can to denigrate a woman's sexuality and also use sex as an excuse to say why a woman climbed the ladder (and they didn't). Keep in mind this is based on male perception of what woman's sexuality is like (for example, ignoring the sad fact that a lot of women have trouble achieving orgasm or end up with men who don't give a crap about their half of things), and denigration is a way to keep that 'in check' so to speak.

It is one of the reasons when I hear men whining about how women are being given an unfair advantage, that men are being ridiculed and bashed while women are being given the golden ticket, it makes me angry, because despite all these claims, in reality it is still a man's world in many ways, and what this represents is men complaining that they actually have to compete now, or that women won't take their shit, either (and before I come off sounding like I am denigrating all men, I am not, a lot of men these days don't share these kinds of attitudes, and quite frankly, it has gotten a lot better then it was in my generation and older generations; I am talking the ones who make all these claims like 'men are being thrown aside' and such..all one has to do is look at Congress or the heads of companies to see the reality of that claim).

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RE: Double Standards for Women - 8/18/2013 8:52:14 AM   
needlesandpins


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it's very simple. there probably always has been, and always will be a double standard where women v men and sex are concerned.

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RE: Double Standards for Women - 8/18/2013 10:59:55 AM   
AAkasha


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Zonie63


quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy

There is no male equivalent for SLUT.

Point noted about the crazy comparison (JB to Homeland.)


Perhaps not an exact equivalent, although promiscuous men might be called "womanizers," "horndogs," "poon hounds," etc. I've seen some negative portrayals of men who are excessively horny, usually secondary characters, such as "Ajax" in The Warriors or "Moe" in Slap Shot. They come across almost like they've got some kind of psychological problem or sex addiction. They'll fuck anybody. In contrast, the main character (like James Bond) is usually more discriminating, going for the more beautiful and classier women - the kind of women who, for most men, would be unobtainable, so James Bond is kind of viewed as a "hero" from that perspective - in addition to saving the free world from the forces of evil.






Wow. I never thought I would see the day when Moe from Slap Shot was used as a reference here. Everyone needs to go rent Slap Shot and fully appreciate the glory that is Moe. And also see the point that is made here. Even all his male peers on the team think Moe inappropriate with his obsession with going out and getting laid in every city they go to, and how he talks about women. Some Moe lines:

To all his teammates who are just sitting in a hotel room playing poker and content to do so, trying to find someone to go with him - none want to obviously? "Anyone heard of the Palm Aisle? I fucked a barmaid there once! She comes up to me, nipples like tiny little rocks!" (at that point after everyone literally wont even talk to him, a teammate literally is like, yeah, ok Moe, and pushes him away.

Watching the ice capades, "They outta cut the feathers off the backs of those things, show a little more ASS," His teammate (french canadian) "Moe, you make me sick, when you speak" Moe: "This isn't art, this is SEX!"

On a side note, the actor that played Moe was a born again Christian.

Akasha


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