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Sub Plot to the Winter Olympics - 8/18/2013 8:35:02 AM   
cloudboy


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The undercurrent of gay rights expression by the athletes -- in how they act and dress -- should be fascinating at the Winter Olympics in Russia. 88% of Russians support anti-gay laws. Such anti-gay attitudes are shared by other nationalities in Africa and by most religious extremists around the world (including the USA.) I can't wait to see the dissident movement challenge them.

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/olympics-fourth-place-medal/russian-gold-medalists-kiss-medal-stand-world-championships-132337366.html








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< Message edited by cloudboy -- 8/18/2013 8:36:35 AM >
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RE: Sub Plot to the Winter Olympics - 8/18/2013 8:39:00 AM   
Spiritedsub2


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I wonder if 88% of Russians really favor anti-gay laws. Something tells me that accurate reporting in Russia of public opinion on that issue might be suspect...

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RE: Sub Plot to the Winter Olympics - 8/18/2013 9:04:56 AM   
njlauren


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Spiritedsub2

I wonder if 88% of Russians really favor anti-gay laws. Something tells me that accurate reporting in Russia of public opinion on that issue might be suspect...

Sadly, it is probably pretty close to that, based on talking to friends of mine who emigrated from there. Russia has never been a belleweather of human rights, and in some ways throwing off the USSR (which was no bargain) led to it even going downhill in more than a few ways. First of all, with the fall of the Soviet Union old bigotries flared back to life, especially anti semitism, life was never great in Russia for Jews before the USSR, and under the Soviet system still were not exactly thought favorably of, but today it is much worse, what was an unsaid part of the culture is out there and in the open.

A lot of this can be tied to the unfortunate resurgence of the Russian Orthodox Church, which in some ways makes the Catholic Church look progressive. Worse, the church is very nationalistic, and has developed interlocking ties with the goons running the Russian Government, so now church policy is government policy, and the government gets undying support from the church (they are basically a major member of the thugocracy that runs the country). Keep in mind the members of Pussy Riot were sentenced to years in Jail for the act of performing in some big Russian Orthodox Cathedral as a protest, and you basically better support the Russian Orthodox Church or at the very least never say anything bad about them. It doesn't help that Russia lost a lot of its well educated classes to Europe, the US, Israel and Australia, when the USSR fell, leaving for better opportunities, and you are left with a population that is older and much less well educated then it had in the USSR days, and that doesn't help, either.

You add that to the fact that Russia's population is set to drop precipitously, and it is a toxic mix. The Russian government has been trying to get the birth rate up, giving bonuses to people who have kids and such, and claiming they are 'protecting' the family is going to sit well with that attitude.

As far as what the athletes do, I would bet pretty good money on very little, if any athletes do show some signs of support, NBC will make sure they aren't shown and the Olympic officials will quickly squash it. Bob Costas may make some little speech about it, basically saying nothing at all, maybe they will be brave and leave Mary Carillo on their staff there, but other then that, you will barely see any sign of it, I can almost guarantee that.

The real protest would be to make the chief financial sponsors pay for allowing Russia the games, if NBC ratings are off, if boycotts are threatened of coca cola and other major sponsors, you might see something,but I would bet you won't tell the difference between 2014 Sochi and the prior one. It will be all about Russian culture, visiting local families, drinking local conconctions, eating local food, etc..

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RE: Sub Plot to the Winter Olympics - 8/18/2013 9:37:49 AM   
pahunkboy


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There is a man shortage in Russia.

Wars killed off many of the men- this leaves the ratio of men to woman in disproportionate state. As a result- the men can get away with being mommas boys and treating woman like crap.

In light of the man shortage- people are desperate to make sure all the men are functioning as husbands/mommas boys.

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RE: Sub Plot to the Winter Olympics - 8/18/2013 12:08:02 PM   
MasterCaneman


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The ratios aren't horribly skewed enough to account for this. From Wikipedia:
Sex ratio
Total: 0.86 male(s)/female (2009)
At birth: 1.05 male(s)/female
Under 15: 1.05 male(s)/female (male 10,806,895/female 10,285,532)
15-64 years: 0.92 male(s)/female (male 48,864,763/female 53,048,315)
65-over: 0.46 male(s)/female (male 5,969,976/female 12,928,498)
Demographics of Russia

I believe it's a cultural tendency towards homophobia and the influence of the Orthodox Church more than anything else.

< Message edited by MasterCaneman -- 8/18/2013 12:09:13 PM >


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RE: Sub Plot to the Winter Olympics - 8/18/2013 12:28:11 PM   
pahunkboy


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quote:

65-over: 0.46 male(s)/female (male 5,969,976/female 12,928,498)


The attitude is passed down to the younger folks.


The Soviets were a secular state too.

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RE: Sub Plot to the Winter Olympics - 8/18/2013 4:16:49 PM   
Edwynn


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The vast majority of modern states are secular states. That is, they are not run by a theocracy, as was the case in Europe and elsewhere in the past.

Not sure what the point is in singling out the (former) USSR as a secular state.

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RE: Sub Plot to the Winter Olympics - 8/18/2013 5:04:03 PM   
njlauren


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwynn


The vast majority of modern states are secular states. That is, they are not run by a theocracy, as was the case in Europe and elsewhere in the past.

Not sure what the point is in singling out the (former) USSR as a secular state.

I suspect the idea is to try and defer blame from the Russian Orthodox Church, arguing that the USSR was repressive (including of gays) so therefore it of course had nothing to do with the religion..course, that also leaves off that the Soviet Union existed for roughly 70 years, and that 'traditional' Russian culture was heavily influenced by the Russian Orthodox Church. The reality is that the USSR wasn't great on human rights, but under the USSR the Russian Orthodox church was suppressed, and since the fall they have become a major power in Russia, integrally tied with the state.

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RE: Sub Plot to the Winter Olympics - 8/18/2013 6:36:08 PM   
dcnovice


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FR

Saw this on Facebook: the Winter Olympics logo retooled to meet truth-in-advertising standards.



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RE: Sub Plot to the Winter Olympics - 8/18/2013 9:00:15 PM   
pahunkboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwynn


The vast majority of modern states are secular states. That is, they are not run by a theocracy, as was the case in Europe and elsewhere in the past.

Not sure what the point is in singling out the (former) USSR as a secular state.



Because it is not a long history of christianity there.

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RE: Sub Plot to the Winter Olympics - 8/19/2013 4:09:09 PM   
eulero83


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quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

quote:

65-over: 0.46 male(s)/female (male 5,969,976/female 12,928,498)


The attitude is passed down to the younger folks.


The Soviets were a secular state too.


and had little problems with men kissing other men





by the way that honekker guy was really playing the field!

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RE: Sub Plot to the Winter Olympics - 8/19/2013 4:18:11 PM   
cloudboy


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Great pictures everyone. That's the spirit. We all need to fight for minority rights and protections. Society is only as strong as its weakest link.

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RE: Sub Plot to the Winter Olympics - 8/19/2013 9:08:24 PM   
LookieNoNookie


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Spiritedsub2

I wonder if 88% of Russians really favor anti-gay laws. Something tells me that accurate reporting in Russia of public opinion on that issue might be suspect...


I heard it was 84%.

(Someone told me that their polling agencies aren't entirely reliable and it could be 57%).

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