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Wikileaks "Insurance" release - 8/18/2013 10:44:02 PM   
Esinn


Posts: 886
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Status: offline 		http://www.businessinsider.com/wikileaks-insurance-file-2013-8

Hate or like them or "him" (Assange). This is an interesting thing. It happened after the intentional and self directed shutdowns of two of the more secure email companies on the planet. It is believed Ed Snowden was the customer of one. It came after Glenn Greenwalds partner was detained in the UK. While no real charges were filed, they were detained under a counter terrorism law - of course they are not a terrorist. But this allowed authorities to look at or retain all of their data. While many do not support it, it was an effective strategy/move.

Any speculation about why this happened. It also coincided with a few other things. Is as blind as mine at this point in time. I just point it out because it is an interesting unfolding current event some might not see in the news.

< Message edited by Esinn -- 8/18/2013 10:50:18 PM >

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RE: Wikileaks "Insurance" release - 8/18/2013 10:51:04 PM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		You can download the files via torrent but since they are encrypted — and Wikileaks has not yet provided the key — you won't be able to open them

Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/wikileaks-insurance-file-2013-8#ixzz2cOKTckg1


I knew there was a catch.

(in reply to Esinn)
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RE: Wikileaks "Insurance" release - 8/19/2013 4:03:34 AM   
RottenJohnny


Posts: 1677
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Esinn
It came after Glenn Greenwalds partner was detained in the UK. While no real charges were filed, they were detained under a counter terrorism law - of course they are not a terrorist. But this allowed authorities to look at or retain all of their data. While many do not support it, it was an effective strategy/move.

Any speculation about why this happened. It also coincided with a few other things. Is as blind as mine at this point in time. I just point it out because it is an interesting unfolding current event some might not see in the news.

Wow. Shades of Johnny Mnemonic. Sounds like Wikileaks is trying to replicate it's data around the world so it can't be contained by a government grab attempt. The encryption also makes it difficult for the government to make any claims about what information is in the files. But unless someone can release the key there's no telling how long it could take to decrypt the data. I doubt anyone in the public sector will be able to do it. You'd need a bank of Cray supercomputers to get passed 256-bit encryption.

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RE: Wikileaks "Insurance" release - 8/19/2013 3:21:43 PM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		I am not sure what good the info is with out the ability to read it. What type of insurance is this?

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RE: Wikileaks "Insurance" release - 8/19/2013 4:46:18 PM   
Moonhead


Posts: 16520
Joined: 9/21/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: RottenJohnny


quote:

ORIGINAL: Esinn
It came after Glenn Greenwalds partner was detained in the UK. While no real charges were filed, they were detained under a counter terrorism law - of course they are not a terrorist. But this allowed authorities to look at or retain all of their data. While many do not support it, it was an effective strategy/move.

Any speculation about why this happened. It also coincided with a few other things. Is as blind as mine at this point in time. I just point it out because it is an interesting unfolding current event some might not see in the news.

Wow. Shades of Johnny Mnemonic. Sounds like Wikileaks is trying to replicate it's data around the world so it can't be contained by a government grab attempt. The encryption also makes it difficult for the government to make any claims about what information is in the files. But unless someone can release the key there's no telling how long it could take to decrypt the data. I doubt anyone in the public sector will be able to do it. You'd need a bank of Cray supercomputers to get passed 256-bit encryption.

Or an awful lot of Linux boxes. The Beowulf cluster in '96 was equivalent to a couple of Crays, was it not?

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RE: Wikileaks "Insurance" release - 8/19/2013 4:53:38 PM   
JeffBC


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From: Canada
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead
Or an awful lot of Linux boxes. The Beowulf cluster in '96 was equivalent to a couple of Crays, was it not?

Or even more abacuses. With known mathematical proofs a properly implemented 256 bit elliptical curve encryption algorithm is rock solid. Even in my wildest tinfoil hat conspiracy ridden nightmares I still think AES256 is dependable for the foreseeable future.

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RE: Wikileaks "Insurance" release - 8/19/2013 5:58:55 PM   
DomKen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffBC

quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead
Or an awful lot of Linux boxes. The Beowulf cluster in '96 was equivalent to a couple of Crays, was it not?

Or even more abacuses. With known mathematical proofs a properly implemented 256 bit elliptical curve encryption algorithm is rock solid. Even in my wildest tinfoil hat conspiracy ridden nightmares I still think AES256 is dependable for the foreseeable future.

I wouldn't count on that. A cluster of PS3 game consoles broke 112 bit keys back in 2009.
http://lacal.epfl.ch/112bit_prime

If I was transmitting anything I really wanted secure I'd use a 512 or 1024 bit key.

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RE: Wikileaks "Insurance" release - 8/19/2013 6:39:26 PM   
dcnovice


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quote:

If I was transmitting anything I really wanted secure I'd use a 512 or 1024 bit key.

I'd use an owl.

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RE: Wikileaks "Insurance" release - 8/19/2013 9:58:25 PM   
Edwynn


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Ha Ha.

That was a hoot.

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RE: Wikileaks "Insurance" release - 8/19/2013 11:29:51 PM   
Esinn


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Joined: 6/23/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

I wouldn't count on that. A cluster of PS3 game consoles broke 112 bit keys back in 2009.
http://lacal.epfl.ch/112bit_prime

If I was transmitting anything I really wanted secure I'd use a 512 or 1024 bit key.


http://www.eetimes.com/document.asp?doc_id=1279619

There is plenty of data on this if you want to discuss it. I am familiar with both. I am not suggesting this will remain impossible. Just every indication suggests today it is not humanly possible. Though, I am more interested in the "social" impact, rumors and reason for this "insurance" file as it becomes available over a technical discussion.

Not to shoot down the technical discussion. Here is some interesting reading for those who forgot or failed to look:
Insurance files are nothing new for WL..... Remember the cablegate where David Leigh 'leaked' the key went the story. It seems to have been verified too, it was not cracked - the key was distributed.

Here is a reasonable time line:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Cablegate_timeline

This is a good article. Though the EE times or others do a much better job.
http://www.popsci.com/technology/article/2010-12/how-secure-julian-assanges-thermonuclear-insurance-file

Bruce S - can NSA break it:
https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2012/03/can_the_nsa_bre.html


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RE: Wikileaks "Insurance" release - 8/19/2013 11:44:52 PM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline 		sounds like they want to white wash some propaganda or worse. So find a way to INVADE PRIVATE PROPERTY

< Message edited by Real0ne -- 8/19/2013 11:45:32 PM >

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RE: Wikileaks "Insurance" release - 8/20/2013 12:50:35 AM   
Edwynn


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Joined: 10/26/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Esinn


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

I wouldn't count on that. A cluster of PS3 game consoles broke 112 bit keys back in 2009.
http://lacal.epfl.ch/112bit_prime

If I was transmitting anything I really wanted secure I'd use a 512 or 1024 bit key.


http://www.eetimes.com/document.asp?doc_id=1279619

There is plenty of data on this if you want to discuss it. I am familiar with both. I am not suggesting this will remain impossible. Just every indication suggests today it is not humanly possible. Though, I am more interested in the "social" impact, rumors and reason for this "insurance" file as it becomes available over a technical discussion.

Not to shoot down the technical discussion. Here is some interesting reading for those who forgot or failed to look:
Insurance files are nothing new for WL..... Remember the cablegate where David Leigh 'leaked' the key went the story. It seems to have been verified too, it was not cracked - the key was distributed.

Here is a reasonable time line:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Cablegate_timeline

This is a good article. Though the EE times or others do a much better job.
http://www.popsci.com/technology/article/2010-12/how-secure-julian-assanges-thermonuclear-insurance-file

Bruce S - can NSA break it:
https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2012/03/can_the_nsa_bre.html



After all this dancing around the issue, ...

Just what is the issue you are presenting here? Or what particular issue you have with any of this?

If you could so elucidate.







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RE: Wikileaks "Insurance" release - 8/20/2013 4:44:31 AM   
RottenJohnny


Posts: 1677
Joined: 5/5/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
I wouldn't count on that. A cluster of PS3 game consoles broke 112 bit keys back in 2009.

Yeah...and it took months to complete. It was also using a small parameter analysis that is only proportional to the actual algorithm used for the full encryption method.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Esinn
...I am more interested in the "social" impact, rumors and reason for this "insurance" file as it becomes available over a technical discussion.

It does seem a little bit like blackmail, doesn't it? Put me in jail and I'll expose all your dirty laundry?

I think it's an example of what governments can expect from citizens in the future. We're never going to fully trust any organization that keeps information from the public. If we feel that our lives or freedom are possibly threatened we're going to find ways around their security. And we should. It's the only way to remind authoritarian thinkers that we refuse to allow them to keep the upper hand forever.



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"Give me liberty or give me death." - Patrick Henry

I believe in common sense, not common opinions. - Me

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RE: Wikileaks "Insurance" release - 8/20/2013 9:48:20 AM   
Esinn


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Joined: 6/23/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwynn


After all this dancing around the issue, ...

Just what is the issue you are presenting here? Or what particular issue you have with any of this?

If you could so elucidate.



You do not find it fascinating? Government officials have openly called for the murder of Julian Assange. Just last week a Time magazine reporter tweeted he too wanted him dead, but then retracted and deleted it. The current president and previous have called him a terrorist, traitor and nutjob. A game is being played and you are a part of it.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/08/20/us-usa-security-snowden-guardian-idUSBRE97I10E20130820/
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2013/08/20/rusbridger-snowden-greenw_n_3783558.html?utm_hp_ref=uk
(Wikileaks just admitted since I posted this the release of this data was in response to the actions indicated in the above article)

I do not see how it can hurt to follow along, this is important to everyone in the UK or USA. These 2 nations have a very real impact on the world. The rest of the post and links (not so important) were relevant to the fact AES 256 can not be "cracked" regardless of what has been cracked in the past. Some were saying it could be/should be soon. In other posts people have suggested the NSA could already crack it. It was material relevant to that part of the discussion. IT/Security are an important part of the discussion. Generally speaking I find them just as interesting. Though I do not think everyone should/needs to.


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RE: Wikileaks "Insurance" release - 8/20/2013 1:41:43 PM   
Esinn


Posts: 886
Joined: 6/23/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RottenJohnny


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
I wouldn't count on that. A cluster of PS3 game consoles broke 112 bit keys back in 2009.

Yeah...and it took months to complete. It was also using a small parameter analysis that is only proportional to the actual algorithm used for the full encryption method.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Esinn
...I am more interested in the "social" impact, rumors and reason for this "insurance" file as it becomes available over a technical discussion.

It does seem a little bit like blackmail, doesn't it? Put me in jail and I'll expose all your dirty laundry?




Yes, it does. No matter whose side you are on well played Wiki. As I indicated in a post above or below (Wherever it shows up). Wiki now says it was in response to the recent assault on computers at The Guard. I kept thinking this was a book - not a "journalistic explanation" of actual events:
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/aug/20/nsa-snowden-files-drives-destroyed-london

The UK/USA have indicated they are at war with Assange/WL. In war there are limited rules. Even murdering innocent computers is acceptable.

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RE: Wikileaks "Insurance" release - 8/20/2013 2:24:30 PM   
Kana


Posts: 6676
Joined: 10/24/2006
Status: offline 		I can't speak re Wiki, but Snowden has said that he only released a fraction of what he had, that he was still holding on to the real damaging material. If that's the case, and, big modifier here, if he's telling the truth re this, then Obama's crazy to push him.
I would guess by this time they have a pretty good idea of what he had access to, but who knows...

As for the cat at the airport being a terrorist, what a crock. If this were America I'd suggest getting a good lawyer but I'm pretty sure England has pretty wide sweeping anti-terrorism laws, a result of their Irish neighbors.

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RE: Wikileaks "Insurance" release - 8/29/2013 3:10:51 PM   
Joan51


Posts: 6
Joined: 5/29/2013
Status: offline 		There seems to be an endless battle between maintain governmental security and the right of citizens to know what is going on. And journalists are finding interesting solutions to protect themselves. I can't but wonder if the link is a red herring.

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RE: Wikileaks "Insurance" release - 8/29/2013 3:15:46 PM   
JeffBC


Posts: 5799
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From: Canada
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Esinn
There is plenty of data on this if you want to discuss it. I am familiar with both. I am not suggesting this will remain impossible. Just every indication suggests today it is not humanly possible. Though, I am more interested in the "social" impact, rumors and reason for this "insurance" file as it becomes available over a technical discussion.

Well yes but you gotta understand that DomKen is a backbone network engineer and a cryptologist and a big data specialist along with a raft of other skills so it's kind of pointless to argue with him. I gotta admit though I'm confused why he seems to disagree with every other expert on the face of the planet. Then again I didn't fully understand why he wanted to use routers instead of prisms on backbone fiber lines also. I suspect it's my lack of in-depth technical knowledge.


_____________________________

I'm a lover of "what is", not because I'm a spiritual person, but because it hurts when I argue with reality. -- Bryon Katie
"You're humbly arrogant" -- sunshinemiss
officially a member of the K Crowd

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RE: Wikileaks "Insurance" release - 8/29/2013 3:40:28 PM   
Esinn


Posts: 886
Joined: 6/23/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffBC

quote:

ORIGINAL: Esinn
There is plenty of data on this if you want to discuss it. I am familiar with both. I am not suggesting this will remain impossible. Just every indication suggests today it is not humanly possible. Though, I am more interested in the "social" impact, rumors and reason for this "insurance" file as it becomes available over a technical discussion.

Well yes but you gotta understand that DomKen is a backbone network engineer and a cryptologist and a big data specialist along with a raft of other skills so it's kind of pointless to argue with him. I gotta admit though I'm confused why he seems to disagree with every other expert on the face of the planet. Then again I didn't fully understand why he wanted to use routers instead of prisms on backbone fiber lines also. I suspect it's my lack of in-depth technical knowledge.


I think you are lying.

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RE: Wikileaks "Insurance" release - 8/29/2013 4:37:24 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
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quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffBC

quote:

ORIGINAL: Esinn
There is plenty of data on this if you want to discuss it. I am familiar with both. I am not suggesting this will remain impossible. Just every indication suggests today it is not humanly possible. Though, I am more interested in the "social" impact, rumors and reason for this "insurance" file as it becomes available over a technical discussion.

Well yes but you gotta understand that DomKen is a backbone network engineer and a cryptologist and a big data specialist along with a raft of other skills so it's kind of pointless to argue with him. I gotta admit though I'm confused why he seems to disagree with every other expert on the face of the planet. Then again I didn't fully understand why he wanted to use routers instead of prisms on backbone fiber lines also. I suspect it's my lack of in-depth technical knowledge.


Actually I was a software engineer with a degree in mathematics. For several years I worked for a large financial institution that wanted its database to be both available over the net but totally secure. That means I spent a great deal of time verifying that symmetric key algorithms like AES were secure. As many of the people involved in the standards process that eventually chose AES I was not convinced there was not a way in faster than brute force and that short keys, anything under 1024 bits, was secure against brute force. 128 bits sounds secure until you consider the processing power of modern distributed computing systems. Throw hundreds or thousands of cheap Linux boxes into a distributed computing platform then 3 * 10^38 (number of combinations in a 128 bit key) becomes a solvable problem if the data inside is valuable enough and not time sensitive.

You guys who are so paranoid about the NSA siphoning up the everyone's internet traffic should be more worried that they are instead breaking AES by brute force and going after the big bit primes to break public key encryption as well.

I will note that even Assange doesn't believe 128 bit AES is secure since he used a 256 bit AES for this file.

Also, routers are where the internet traffic is routed. If you want to intercept all of it that is the obvious points to do it. If you're going to physically mess with every single optical fiber in every single bundle that might be carrying net traffic you are first off going to get the same packets many many times which is ridiculously wasteful. Second just how expensive do you think that would be just in paying people to install that stuff and replace failed components?

As a simple example just to send a request to google involves, for me, 8 jumps. That means 8 routers and at least 9 fiber segments. Now where would you tap?

< Message edited by DomKen -- 8/29/2013 4:49:05 PM >

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