RE: Why get off welfare? (Full Version)

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Kirata -> RE: Why get off welfare? (8/23/2013 7:02:22 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

One has to wonder what sort of moron would think 15 bux an hour is a comfy hammock.?

Well I'm just guessing, of course, but it seems to me that somebody who gets up and goes to work every day for $9/hour (or even $15) might be inclined to view raking in $15/hour for not working as a pretty comfy deal.

K.




thompsonx -> RE: Why get off welfare? (8/23/2013 7:08:34 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic


quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444


did you have a couple of kids to support on that too tho?



Depended on who I was fucking at the time. At one point, there were three, all under age 5, at another, a couple teenagers, and back when I was making a whole $5.15 an hour,


When was back then???When gasoline was .30 cents a gallon and bread was .25 cents a loaf?

quote:

I was the only income for a mother and 4 younger siblings.



In your previous posts you have commented on how you and your family recieved welfare when you were a child now you deny it...hmmm

quote:

In every case, we'd have all been living a lot better if I'd been able to just collect, without going out and working for it.

In some of your previous post you say that you and your family did collect welfare.

quote:

And yeah. For a couple of rough patches growing up, I was one of those kids who went to school hungry.


Did you also walk to school five miles uphill both ways[8|]





thompsonx -> RE: Why get off welfare? (8/23/2013 7:26:46 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

Lol, Heretic, @"Alinsky-like responses."
I'll be using that in here!


As opposed to logic and rational thought???

quote:


Just go into *ANY* thread or article about "global warming" (or whatever they're calling it this week)


They are calling it what it has been called all along,the fact that some fools would rather listen to rush than actually read and educate themselves is quite telling.

quote:

and there's a bunch of little Alinskys preaching and prostelizing about their ..."cause."


Just as there are rush felchers who pimp his party line
quote:


Most of them know nothing about science,


Since you say that your degree was not in the sciences how do you know this to be a fact?
quote:

will argue with you for hours, and will not concede anything.


Why should one conceed anything to an idiot?
quote:

YOU are wrong and THEY are right!


If the facts support their position then that is prima facia evidence that they are right and you are wrong...duuuhhhh
quote:


Imagine that, being obsessed with something you know so little about? lol


So when a non scientist like say a bookeeper or an accountant or a business major makes ignorant statements about global warming they are being little alinskys?
quote:


I argued on another site with those brainless twits for two years trying to have an intelligent conversation! Who's the twit, them or me?


You
quote:


It has to be some type of psychological disease when people get so obsessed about something like that.


Perhaps you should consider therapy if you feel that way.
quote:


And why should people get off welfare if it pays better than work? They need some motivation.


What form might that motivation take? Do you think raising the entry level pay would help?
quote:


Like my Co. Commander in Great Lakes Naval training center used to yell at us; "I WILL MOTIVATE THE SHIT OUT OF YOUR ASSES!" And we're supposed to feel sorry for those people?


"Those people" are not in boot camp where you got a salary,housing,food,full medical/dental and free clothing

quote:

The parents are rotten and the kids will be rotten because they see their parents (Mother in most cases) on drugs, always taking the easy way out.


Any validation for this moronic bullshit?
quote:


You drive through those neighborhoods and you can play the game, "Let's see how many people we can see chugging on a "40" on the front porch!"


Last time I checked the govt had repealed the volstead act so drinking alcohol in your own home is not illegal.





thompsonx -> RE: Why get off welfare? (8/23/2013 7:28:22 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

quote:

"Alinsky-like responses."
I'll be using that in here!

I'm sure.

The handy thing about Alinsky is that he's a "Get Out of Thought Free" card. Painting other posters as "little Alinskys" is far easier than engaging them--or complex issues.

Good point.




thompsonx -> RE: Why get off welfare? (8/23/2013 7:34:46 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

One has to wonder what sort of moron would think 15 bux an hour is a comfy hammock.?

Well I'm just guessing, of course, but it seems to me that somebody who gets up and goes to work every day for $9/hour (or even $15) might be inclined to view raking in $15/hour for not working as a pretty comfy deal.

K.


That would be one kind of moron. Can you think of any more?




Kirata -> RE: Why get off welfare? (8/23/2013 7:39:12 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

That would be one kind of moron. Can you think of any more?

Yeah, but there's that TOS thing.... [:)]

K.




thompsonx -> RE: Why get off welfare? (8/23/2013 8:47:01 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

That would be one kind of moron. Can you think of any more?

Yeah, but there's that TOS thing.... [:)]

K.



So then we are agreed that only a moron of a lower economic status would think that 15 bux an hour was a comfy hammock?




DomKen -> RE: Why get off welfare? (8/23/2013 9:27:50 AM)

FR
An injection of reality
http://billmoyers.com/2013/08/21/cato-institute-report-says-poor-americans-have-it-too-good/

In short the lying scum from the Cato Institute try and portray their study as people not working but living high on the hog on our tax dollars. However part of the benefits they lump under "welfare" are tax credits like EITC. So in short these lying sleazes assume the "welfare" recipients are working.

And before anyone tries to deny that fact. Here is the actual study the liar who wrote it avoided linking to in his op-ed:
http://object.cato.org/sites/cato.org/files/pubs/pdf/theworkversus.pdf

Those are the facts and people can whine all they want about Alisky but that won't change those facts.




Winterapple -> RE: Why get off welfare? (8/23/2013 9:43:27 AM)

The Cato Institute is nothing but one of the more visible
hands of the Koch brothers invisible hands.




popeye1250 -> RE: Why get off welfare? (8/23/2013 10:01:12 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

Lol, Heretic, @"Alinsky-like responses."
I'll be using that in here!


As opposed to logic and rational thought???

quote:


Just go into *ANY* thread or article about "global warming" (or whatever they're calling it this week)


They are calling it what it has been called all along,the fact that some fools would rather listen to rush than actually read and educate themselves is quite telling.

quote:

and there's a bunch of little Alinskys preaching and prostelizing about their ..."cause."


Just as there are rush felchers who pimp his party line
quote:


Most of them know nothing about science,


Since you say that your degree was not in the sciences how do you know this to be a fact?
quote:

will argue with you for hours, and will not concede anything.


Why should one conceed anything to an idiot?
quote:

YOU are wrong and THEY are right!


If the facts support their position then that is prima facia evidence that they are right and you are wrong...duuuhhhh
quote:


Imagine that, being obsessed with something you know so little about? lol


So when a non scientist like say a bookeeper or an accountant or a business major makes ignorant statements about global warming they are being little alinskys?
quote:


I argued on another site with those brainless twits for two years trying to have an intelligent conversation! Who's the twit, them or me?


You
quote:


It has to be some type of psychological disease when people get so obsessed about something like that.


Perhaps you should consider therapy if you feel that way.
quote:


And why should people get off welfare if it pays better than work? They need some motivation.


What form might that motivation take? Do you think raising the entry level pay would help?
quote:


Like my Co. Commander in Great Lakes Naval training center used to yell at us; "I WILL MOTIVATE THE SHIT OUT OF YOUR ASSES!" And we're supposed to feel sorry for those people?


"Those people" are not in boot camp where you got a salary,housing,food,full medical/dental and free clothing

quote:

The parents are rotten and the kids will be rotten because they see their parents (Mother in most cases) on drugs, always taking the easy way out.


Any validation for this moronic bullshit?
quote:


You drive through those neighborhoods and you can play the game, "Let's see how many people we can see chugging on a "40" on the front porch!"


Last time I checked the govt had repealed the volstead act so drinking alcohol in your own home is not illegal.




Thompson, if they want to listen to "Rush" that's their business.
And as for knowing anything about "global warming" (or whatever they're calling it this week) I'd just ask them about the Vladovostock Ice Core Studies and from 96 % of them.....crickets.
With the "global warmers" (or whatever they're calling themselves this week) it's not about "science" it's about winning an argument and doing whatever it takes to do it. They have to be "right" 100% of the time!( Hmmm,...remind you of anyone?) They simply dismiss *anything* that disagrees with their obsession. There is some kind of pathology going on there.
And as for $15 an hour in this day and age that's "subsistance level pay." What the hell good is a minimum wage of about $8 an hour supposed to do?
As I've said in here many times before we need to get O-U-T of all those job outsourcing deals that they label as "Free Trade." Anytime a job becomes good paying with benefits it gets shipped overseas.
"Free Trade" is now beginning to hurt *everyone* and with all the part time jobs now I have a real fear that with so little money in the hands of so many that we are on the precipise of a depression.
And what did Barak "Herbert Hoover" Obama do, he got us into another trade deal with S. Korea, Chile and Colombia!
That alone tells you that big business has their dick up his ass.
As people get less and less money to spend on goods and services they won't be able to buy many of the products that those cos. who moved their work forces overseas make so it's going to be like the chickens comming home to roost.
In some ways there's not a dime's worth of differance between Bush and Obama. Obama even said he'd have no trouble with $7 a gallon gas prices.
And no my degree isn't in the "sciences" it's in Bus. Admin and since I got it 30 some years ago I don't even know if it would be relevant in today's society. No "Human Resources" in those days.
However the "little Alinskys" many of whom sounded like they never graduated from high school were the ones doing most of the arguing, not me. They'd pounce on *anyone* who disagreed with them! And it was always "90% of the scientists agree with US!"
And when I'd ask them who they thought should run their grande program they said,............(Drum Roll)........"The "U.N.!!!"
That's when I knew for sure that they were ignorant and uninformed!
And *of course* they wanted to raise taxes on U.S. citizens to pay for it! ($7 a gallon gasoline?) Never China, Brazil or India three of the dirtiest countries on the planet.
Oh yeah, we had it easy in bootcamp! The C.C. would awaken us with some Motzart and the butlers would bring us coffee in our racks. "Don't worry boys, it's raining buckets so we're going to cancel that 5 mile march and P.T. on the grinder today." Oh yeah, we were getting paid too, I think it was $82 per month in those days.




mnottertail -> RE: Why get off welfare? (8/23/2013 10:01:52 AM)

If corporations can post record profits, and pay their officers in bonuses of millions and millions, receiving tax breaks and running wages and part-timers such that the government has to give them foodstamps and other safety net assistance, then it seems a little unreasonable that the minimum wage is $7.50 an hour (and welfare pays slightly above that in some places under some conditions) that the faults lie with the American citizen.


Nor with Alinsky.




cloudboy -> RE: Why get off welfare? (8/23/2013 11:34:07 AM)

As a result, if Congress and state legislatures are serious about reducing welfare dependence and rewarding work, they should consider strengthening welfare work requirements, removing exemptions and narrowing the definition of work. Moreover, states should shrink the gap between the value of welfare and work by reducing current benefit levels and tightening eligibility requirements.

The figure of federal welfare benefits going to the non working poor is about 10% of all federal welfare spending.

That works out to be about $44 Billion dollars out of $3.6 Trillion Dollars. That's about 1.2 % of the federal budget.

-------------

The author isn't very specific in his solution. What does strengthening "welfare work requirements" mean? As others have noted, maybe it would actually be more helpful to raise the minimum wage.










DomKen -> RE: Why get off welfare? (8/23/2013 11:45:19 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy


As a result, if Congress and state legislatures are serious about reducing welfare dependence and rewarding work, they should consider strengthening welfare work requirements, removing exemptions and narrowing the definition of work. Moreover, states should shrink the gap between the value of welfare and work by reducing current benefit levels and tightening eligibility requirements.

This is partly a commentary on the sad state of the US labor market. Another factor is the huge transfer of wealth into the top 1% of Americans. If that wealth transfer had instead gone into the 99%, our economy might be driven by more robust demand leading to higher employment.

The author isn't very specific in his solution. What does strengthening "welfare work requirements" mean? As others have noted, maybe it would actually be more helpful to raise the minimum wage.

I'd also like to see what percentage of government outlays go to welfare recipients as opposed to other programs. My impression is that the percentage is actually fairly low.

The figure of federal welfare benefits going to the non working poor is about 10% of all federal welfare spending.

The discretionary budget of both the department of Agriculture (food stamps and farm stuff) and HHS (the rest of what the authors claim as "welfare") is dwarfed by the defense and homeland security budgets.

In reality very little tax money goes to people who are not working.




cloudboy -> RE: Why get off welfare? (8/23/2013 11:53:35 AM)

I changed my post to reflect that information. You are correct.




VideoAdminRho -> RE: Why get off welfare? (8/23/2013 12:05:57 PM)

Posts were removed for being Off Topic. If you wish to discuss Global Warming, there is currently a thread on the topic.




thompsonx -> RE: Why get off welfare? (8/23/2013 1:03:51 PM)

quote:

Oh yeah, we had it easy in bootcamp! The C.C. would awaken us with some Motzart and the butlers would bring us coffee in our racks. "Don't worry boys, it's raining buckets so we're going to cancel that 5 mile march and P.T. on the grinder today." Oh yeah, we were getting paid too, I think it was $82 per month in those days.


I was not in the navy so we did not have the motzart, the butlers, air conditioned barracks and dinning halls with dishes and flatware and I was making about 30% less than you.




mnottertail -> RE: Why get off welfare? (8/23/2013 1:05:25 PM)

When I made Sergeant, I was raking in $535 bucks a month.

I wonder what a private e-nothing gets nowadays to get hassled in boot?




thompsonx -> RE: Why get off welfare? (8/23/2013 1:16:08 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

When I made Sergeant, I was raking in $535 bucks a month.

I wonder what a private e-nothing gets nowadays to get hassled in boot?


Somewhat more than a sgt back when.
E5 over six with a wife and two kids gets about 50k before taxes when he is in country. Of course long gone are the days when 50k was any serious money for the bodybag lotto.
I know an e6 cook who just got out who is going back as a civilian contracor(food service)at 100k...what side of the bread is the butter on in the sandbox?




Moonhead -> RE: Why get off welfare? (8/23/2013 1:22:11 PM)

Why not?




dcnovice -> RE: Why get off welfare? (8/23/2013 1:22:24 PM)

quote:

DC, I will try to get back to your response and thoughts on the issue.

No worries. I realize you have--gasp!--a life outside CM. [:)]

This is indeed a thorny issue. I hate that well-intentioned policies are backfiring, but I confess I'm not clear on the solution.

One half-baked thought is to establish a figure for a "living wage." If folks don't make it on their paychecks, public assistance could make up the difference and perhaps add a bonus for being in the workforce. At least, that way we wouldn't penalize folks for getting jobs.

In the case of welfare recipients with minor kids, there's an interesting philosophical question about whether rearing them counts as work. In more affluent classes, we recognize stay-at-home moms as key contributors to society.

Much food for thought.




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