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RE: What makes it a war crime? - 9/17/2013 10:16:46 PM

BenevolentM

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Common sense describes what is true in the absence of Sin, but Sin changes many things. In the presence of Sin white becomes black and black becomes white. For this reason in the presence of Sin a man of war can hold a position that is morally sound whereas a man of peace need not. It is only in the substantial absence of Sin does common sense prevail.

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RE: What makes it a war crime? - 9/17/2013 10:56:06 PM

BenevolentM

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Personally, as I see it the loving daddy card is the most rational cause for going to war as one could have. Would the angels stand against you? It would be honest and a thing many could relate to. Though you may not be a Saint, you would at least get to play John Matrix played by Arnold Schwarzenegger in the 1985 film Commando.

Having a little fun with this: President Obama wasn't born in Kenya. He was born in Austria.

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RE: What makes it a war crime? - 9/18/2013 12:02:31 AM

BenevolentM

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Is not what I wrote emotive? Well, it is not logical because it immediately results in a contradiction, but there is a saying in logic about how a medical doctor though good at what he does need not be good at everything. Logic is not the right tool for the job. I suspect that logic is a fetish.

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RE: What makes it a war crime? - 9/18/2013 12:11:33 AM

BenevolentM

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How could an emotive argument trump a logical argument for war? An emotive argument is goal directed whereas a logical argument is not. Logic is concerned with evaluating statements for their truth value. It is not concerned with any other variety of goal directed reasoning. With a goal, you do the dirty deed and get out. In the absence of a goal, you would be nothing more than a killing machine. Nothing is affirmed.

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RE: What makes it a war crime? - 9/18/2013 12:45:08 AM

BamaD

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FR

A war crime is anything the other side thought of first.

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RE: What makes it a war crime? - 9/18/2013 1:10:49 AM

BenevolentM

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What I wrote apart from impressing me reminds me of the ancient Goddess Sekhmet. I have fond feelings for Sekhmet in that she honored me with her presence and offered me her compassion.

quote:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sekhmet

In Egyptian mythology, Sekhmet ... was originally the warrior goddess as well as goddess of healing for Upper Egypt. She is depicted as a lioness, the fiercest hunter known to the Egyptians. It was said that her breath formed the desert. She was seen as the protector of the pharaohs and led them in warfare.

...

Sekhmet also is a Solar deity, sometimes called the daughter of the sun god Ra and often associated with the goddesses Hathor and Bast. She bears the Solar disk and the uraeus which associates her with Wadjet and royalty. With these associations she can be construed as being a divine arbiter of the goddess Ma'at (Justice, or Order) in the Judgment Hall of Osiris, associating her with the Wedjat (later the Eye of Ra), and connecting her with Tefnut as well.

...

To pacify Sekhmet, festivals were celebrated at the end of battle, so that the destruction would come to an end. During an annual festival held at the beginning of the year, a festival of intoxication, the Egyptians danced and played music to soothe the wildness of the goddess and drank great quantities of wine ritually to imitate the extreme drunkenness that stopped the wrath of the goddess—when she almost destroyed humanity. This may relate to averting excessive flooding during the inundation at the beginning of each year as well, when the Nile ran blood-red with the silt from up-stream and Sekhmet had to swallow the overflow to save humankind.

Apparently, the ancient Egyptians understood the relationship between logic and unbridled slaughter.

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RE: What makes it a war crime? - 9/18/2013 1:35:25 AM

BenevolentM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

FR

A war crime is anything the other side thought of first.

What I wrote is a little confusing in that "... the Nile ran blood-red with the silt from up-stream and Sekhmet had to swallow the overflow to save humankind." She is a hero.

One could also say that the United Nations was never intended to have teeth. It is a place where people talk about their differences and nothing more. These war crimes are a troubling development, but to supplant this tragedy with yet another and invite the wrath of Sekhmet? We do have more pressing matters at home. One day an embassy may be attacked, but at least if we go to war due to such an attack we will have cause. Maybe it will happen, maybe it won't. These things are not that rational. It is like predicting the weather. You cannot guarantee that these worse case scenarios are going to play out. I do not see how terrorism is as contagious as the plague. Yet men of logic thought so.

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RE: What makes it a war crime? - 9/18/2013 1:53:05 AM

BenevolentM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BenevolentM

What I wrote is a little confusing in that "... the Nile ran blood-red with the silt from up-stream and Sekhmet had to swallow the overflow to save humankind." She is a hero.

So it seems that the ancient Egyptians had a better grasp of contradiction than does modern man.

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RE: What makes it a war crime? - 9/18/2013 2:07:31 AM

BenevolentM

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To arrive at truth one must do battle with the demons within.

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RE: What makes it a war crime? - 9/18/2013 2:59:31 AM

BenevolentM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

FR

A war crime is anything the other side thought of first.

While I was lost in thought it occurred to me that I may have not have initially understood what you wrote in full. I mean contradiction, not relativism. I wrote, "The truth lies in the shadows and in objects that you cannot grasp."

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RE: What makes it a war crime? - 9/18/2013 4:42:57 PM

leonine

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kana

quote:

ORIGINAL: BenevolentM

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kana

But what if we took all this $ we're spending on stupid wars ... and did a Manhattan Project type deal trying to reduce our dependence on oil, don't you think that would be ... much better ...

Sounds good to me, but is it realistic?

Sounds to me to be a whole lot more realistic than "We'll kill you until you like us."

quote:

ORIGINAL: BenevolentM

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kana

Burying troops alive in the trenches with armored bulldozers sure ain't, which we did in Iraq.

I'm impressed. Just fill the trenches in.

That's what we did Day One of Desert Storm.The Iraqi's were all dug in their trenches. We just sent these massive uber heavily armored earthmovers in, the armor was so heavy nothing the Iraqi's had on the ground could penetrate it. They just plinked away with their AK's and RPG's, bullets and shells bouncing harmlessly off, until the earthmovers hit the first line of trenches, started burying whole companies alive. All of a sudden, lines 2,3,4... of the trenches started surrendering en masse.
That's one of the reasons for the low US casualty/high prisoner ratio.

That's some harsh shit there. Talk about a brutal way to die

In WW1 the heavy bombardments that preceded offensives were specifically intended to cave in trenches and dugouts. But that was at a comfortable distance where you didn't see the people you buried.

I sometimes feel that a lot of the rules of war are just about making it harder to kill the enemy. Which doesn't really make a lot of sense, since that's the object of the exercise.

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RE: What makes it a war crime? - 9/28/2013 11:30:49 PM

BenevolentM

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A few days ago it occurred to me that war seems to follow a pattern of addiction. To extricate yourself involves having to go through a period of withdrawal and things must get really bad before withdrawal seems preferable. Hence, endless war leads to endless war because it is an addiction. How savory is it to forgive your enemies after they have done you so much harm to you? Do those who live in the middle east believe in eye for an eye or forgiveness? They remember and keep remembering. It is my impression that what a law man does is says I'll help you, but only under the condition that when it is all over and the smoke clears, you let go, but will they let it go? This is the middle east we are talking about.

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RE: What makes it a war crime? - 9/29/2013 1:52:55 AM

egern

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

The Rules of war are a veneer to make war seem civilized.
We (the US) haven't had an enemy who followed them in over a century.

Nor have the US followed them.

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RE: What makes it a war crime? - 9/29/2013 1:57:10 AM

egern

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

quote:

ORIGINAL: BenevolentM

quote:

ORIGINAL: BenevolentM

The Great War offended everyone. It was the first experience anyone had with a World War. Perhaps they overreacted. It is easy to overreact when facing something novel.

911 was a novel experience for the United States; consequently, I suspect we over reacted.

Over reacted....you are fucking joking. The decision to go after AQ was indeed a reasonable one, even if the US and UK went about it the wrong way (By not making a deal with the Taliban. And not taking out AQ at Tora Bora)

The notion of not taking action after so many civillians were killed on American soil is absurd.

We did over react. Not in going after AQ but in locking up hundreds if not thousands of innocent Muslims. torturing prisoners ignoring Americans civil rights etc. that was an over reaction.