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ORIGINAL: naimIMGI

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ORIGINAL: BamaD


You do know that agent orange was a defoliant don't you?

And you do know that, as early as 1966, the U.S. was vetoing resolutions at The United Nations charging that the U.S. was violating the 1925 Geneva Protocol, which regulated the use of chemical and biological weapons, don't you ?

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Big difference morally and legally between a weed killer and nerve gas.
But hey as long as you get to trash the Americans who cares?

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ORIGINAL: BamaD

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ORIGINAL: naimIMGI

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OROGONAL BamaD
You do know that agent orange was a defoliant don't you?

OHHH that's OK then - I guess that means that we can safely ignore the estimated 400,000 people were killed or maimed, and 500,000 children born with birth defects as a result of its use in Vietnam, they don't count because Agent Orange was a 'defoliant; and was only supposed to destroy the ecosystem, and the civilian population's ability to grow crops

A chemical weapon is a chemical weapon however you dress it up

Big difference morally and legally between a weed killer and nerve gas.
But hey as long as you get to trash the Americans who cares?

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ORIGINAL: naimIMGI

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OROGONAL BamaD
You do know that agent orange was a defoliant don't you?

OHHH that's OK then - I guess that means that we can safely ignore the estimated 400,000 people were killed or maimed, and 500,000 children born with birth defects as a result of its use in Vietnam, they don't count because Agent Orange was a 'defoliant; and was only supposed to destroy the ecosystem, and the civilian population's ability to grow crops

A chemical weapon is a chemical weapon however you dress it up

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ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1

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ORIGINAL: BamaD

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ORIGINAL: naimIMGI

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OROGONAL BamaD
You do know that agent orange was a defoliant don't you?

OHHH that's OK then - I guess that means that we can safely ignore the estimated 400,000 people were killed or maimed, and 500,000 children born with birth defects as a result of its use in Vietnam, they don't count because Agent Orange was a 'defoliant; and was only supposed to destroy the ecosystem, and the civilian population's ability to grow crops

A chemical weapon is a chemical weapon however you dress it up

Big difference morally and legally between a weed killer and nerve gas.
But hey as long as you get to trash the Americans who cares?

Ok BamaD, can you please explain this -

Chemically, Agent Orange is an approximately 1:1 mixture of two phenoxyl herbicides – 2,4-dichlorophenoxyacetic acid (2,4-D) and 2,4,5-trichlorophenoxyacetic acid (2,4,5-T) – in iso-octyl ester form.
Numerous studies have examined health effects linked to Agent Orange, its component compounds, and its manufacturing byproducts.
 
Prior to the controversy surrounding Agent Orange, there was already a large body of scientific evidence linking 2,4,5-T to serious negative health effects and ecological damage. But in 1969, it was revealed to the public that the 2,4,5-T was contaminated with a dioxin, 2,3,7,8-tetrachlorodibenzodioxin (TCDD), and that the TCDD was causing many of the previously unexplained adverse health effects which were correlated with Agent Orange exposure. TCDD has been described as "perhaps the most toxic molecule ever synthesized by man".
Internal memoranda revealed that Monsanto (a major manufacturer of 2,4,5-T) had informed the U.S. government in 1952 that its 2,4,5-T was contaminated. In the manufacture of 2,4,5-T, accidental overheating of the reaction mixture easily causes the product to condense into the toxic self-condensation product TCDD. At the time, precautions were not taken against this unintended side reaction, which caused also the Seveso disaster in Italy in 1976.
 
During the Vietnam War, between 1962 and 1971, the United States military sprayed nearly 20,000,000 US gallons (76,000,000 l) of material containing chemical herbicides and defoliants mixed with jet fuel in Vietnam, eastern Laos and parts of Cambodia, as part of Operation Ranch Hand.


So the US war prats not only used a "weed killer" but also knew it was contaminated with a deadly toxin AND mixed it with jet fuel.
And yet they STILL went ahead and spread it????

The US government knew in 1952 that it was contaminated.
The Vietnam War was between 1961-1971.
That's a FULL 9 YEARS after they knew it was contaminated!!

That's not just spreading a weed killer - that's blatant use of toxic chemicals.

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ORIGINAL: BenevolentM

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ORIGINAL: BamaD

Sub to France, you've got to be kidding

Men of wealth and power will often seek out a Mistress to please. In the same way we can seek out France in hopes of pleasing her. It is something we have not tried. It would be an unexpected move. United States, as lover and peacemaker. If France declares war. So do we in friendship. We make peace with France and go to war with Syria. That way we can leverage the political connections France has. The countries of the world would have a more difficult time opposing us. We won't be playing the role of the overly aggressive egotistical dominant male. It would reduce the risk that the situation would get out of hand and start a global war.

I feel that the Senate, Congress, and the President should consider what I am proposing.

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ORIGINAL: Aylee

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ORIGINAL: BenevolentM

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ORIGINAL: BamaD

Sub to France, you've got to be kidding

Men of wealth and power will often seek out a Mistress to please. In the same way we can seek out France in hopes of pleasing her. It is something we have not tried. It would be an unexpected move. United States, as lover and peacemaker. If France declares war. So do we in friendship. We make peace with France and go to war with Syria. That way we can leverage the political connections France has. The countries of the world would have a more difficult time opposing us. We won't be playing the role of the overly aggressive egotistical dominant male. It would reduce the risk that the situation would get out of hand and start a global war.

I feel that the Senate, Congress, and the President should consider what I am proposing.

Every time the French get involved in anything, they tend to do more damage to their allies than to their enemies. Examples redound but Vietnam, the War on Terror and World Wars One and Two all come to mind.
~Maxome Foe

Besides, you know the Fwench. They are always there when they Need us. [;)]

Don't get me wrong. I like the French. We could not, for example, have asked for a better, more considerate, and - in the circumstances this was key - _tactful_ man than Rochambeau.

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ORIGINAL: BamaD
Never said agent orange was run or used right, it was a total screw up from the get go.
I was objecting it being placed in the same category as nerve gas.
I am a Viet Nam era Veteran, so trust me I have no love for agent orange or many other things that were done then

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ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1

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ORIGINAL: BamaD

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ORIGINAL: naimIMGI

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OROGONAL BamaD
You do know that agent orange was a defoliant don't you?

OHHH that's OK then - I guess that means that we can safely ignore the estimated 400,000 people were killed or maimed, and 500,000 children born with birth defects as a result of its use in Vietnam, they don't count because Agent Orange was a 'defoliant; and was only supposed to destroy the ecosystem, and the civilian population's ability to grow crops

A chemical weapon is a chemical weapon however you dress it up

Big difference morally and legally between a weed killer and nerve gas.
But hey as long as you get to trash the Americans who cares?

Ok BamaD, can you please explain this -

Chemically, Agent Orange is an approximately 1:1 mixture of two phenoxyl herbicides – 2,4-dichlorophenoxyacetic acid (2,4-D) and 2,4,5-trichlorophenoxyacetic acid (2,4,5-T) – in iso-octyl ester form.
Numerous studies have examined health effects linked to Agent Orange, its component compounds, and its manufacturing byproducts.
 
Prior to the controversy surrounding Agent Orange, there was already a large body of scientific evidence linking 2,4,5-T to serious negative health effects and ecological damage. But in 1969, it was revealed to the public that the 2,4,5-T was contaminated with a dioxin, 2,3,7,8-tetrachlorodibenzodioxin (TCDD), and that the TCDD was causing many of the previously unexplained adverse health effects which were correlated with Agent Orange exposure. TCDD has been described as "perhaps the most toxic molecule ever synthesized by man".
Internal memoranda revealed that Monsanto (a major manufacturer of 2,4,5-T) had informed the U.S. government in 1952 that its 2,4,5-T was contaminated. In the manufacture of 2,4,5-T, accidental overheating of the reaction mixture easily causes the product to condense into the toxic self-condensation product TCDD. At the time, precautions were not taken against this unintended side reaction, which caused also the Seveso disaster in Italy in 1976.
 
During the Vietnam War, between 1962 and 1971, the United States military sprayed nearly 20,000,000 US gallons (76,000,000 l) of material containing chemical herbicides and defoliants mixed with jet fuel in Vietnam, eastern Laos and parts of Cambodia, as part of Operation Ranch Hand.


So the US war prats not only used a "weed killer" but also knew it was contaminated with a deadly toxin AND mixed it with jet fuel.
And yet they STILL went ahead and spread it????

The US government knew in 1952 that it was contaminated.
The Vietnam War was between 1961-1971.
That's a FULL 9 YEARS after they knew it was contaminated!!

That's not just spreading a weed killer - that's blatant use of toxic chemicals.

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The Rules of war are a veneer to make war seem civilized.
We (the US) haven't had an enemy who followed them in over a century.

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ORIGINAL: MrRodgers
When one chooses to go back to 1952, 1961 and extrapolate that this has something to do with Obama...you expose your partisan vitriol.

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ORIGINAL: vincentML

Another question I have is: what is the enforcement mechanism? None really. Is the GC more than some rules on tissue paper?

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ORIGINAL: njlauren
I believe with poison gas it is a war crime if used on civilians for mass slaughter rather than militarily, though I could be wrong about that specific (the Newsroom series implied that a Sarin gas attack against military targets would be a war crime as well, so I come to think of it probably am).

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ORIGINAL: DomKen

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ORIGINAL: Politesub53

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ORIGINAL: BenevolentM

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ORIGINAL: BenevolentM

The Great War offended everyone. It was the first experience anyone had with a World War. Perhaps they overreacted. It is easy to overreact when facing something novel.

911 was a novel experience for the United States; consequently, I suspect we over reacted.

Over reacted....you are fucking joking. The decision to go after AQ was indeed a reasonable one, even if the US and UK went about it the wrong way (By not making a deal with the Taliban. And not taking out AQ at Tora Bora)

The notion of not taking action after so many civillians were killed on American soil is absurd.

We did over react. Not in going after AQ but in locking up hundreds if not thousands of innocent Muslims. torturing prisoners ignoring Americans civil rights etc. that was an over reaction.

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ORIGINAL: Kana

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The Rules of war are a veneer to make war seem civilized.
We (the US) haven't had an enemy who followed them in over a century.

We (the US) haven't followed them in over a century.

Here.let me fix that for you.
The rules of war are a joke. Nobody follows them and for any American to come in and attempt to trumpet and take the high ground is an embarrassment.
We bombed Dresden. We firebombed Tokyo. We used Agent Orange and assassination squads in Nam. We point blank assassinated yamamoto. We have kill squads operating worldwide right now as we speak.We illegally wiretap our friends and enemies alike. We dropped the A bomb. We interned US Japanese in WW2. We massacred the Indians. Sherman was the man who invented modern war, war against the populace that removes the will to fight, to support the war effort.We've killed heads of state in Chile. We toppled Mossadeq and gave Iran to the Shah,along with training his torturers. We've supported dictators and corrupt regimes that massacre their own populaces (See Saddam and the kurds).
We staged the Gulk of Tonkin incident, the Maine incident and god knows how many others to provoke wars. The list goes on and on and on, ad infinitum.

The US doesn't have clean hands.Hasn't in ages. For us to try and take the high road to impress...well,I don't really know cuz the rest of the world sees us a lot clearer than we do, as the murdering bastards that we are...is pathetic.

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We intercepted Yamamoto completely legit
The British installed the Shah

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ORIGINAL: kdsub

War crimes are designated by the powerful and victorious...If you think Napalm is bad you should have lived through Dresden or Hamburg or Osaka in WWII.

Butch

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I'm not knocking America. just pointing out that our hands are at least as bloody, if not far bloodier, than anyone else's and that we have zero right to claim high moral ground.In fact, to do so would be tacitly immoral, because it would be such a blatant lie.

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Enough so that "the powerful and victorious" decided after WWII that carpet bombings of civilian areas should be a war crime, and put it in the Geneva Convention.