The Swedish model: it's not just saunas. (Full Version)

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leonine -> The Swedish model: it's not just saunas. (9/2/2013 4:36:22 AM)

Economics for the last 20 years has been dominated by the neolib concensus that the secret of prosperity is small government, low taxes and minimal public services. It may lead to some individual hardship, we've been told, but it's worth it for the wealth that will be created by the flourishing private sector.

We all know how great that's working out for the US and UK, but it's worth also looking at the flip side, the nations that have been doing the exact opposite: high taxes, high regulation, cradle-to-grave tax-funded welfare. According to the neolib model, this should produce a population of spineless dole-suckers and a business sector crushed by the dead hand of the state.

Ever since the crash that we're not supposed to call a crash, I've been moving all I can of my business to Denmark and Sweden, for the simple reason that that's where people still have money. So it was interesting to have confirmation that it's not just my impression:

http://www.businesszone.co.uk/blogs/sean-farrington/sean-farrington-uk-md-rvp-northern-europe-qliktech/silicon-scandinavia-why-are?ref=ukbf

Not that politicians are ever going to do anything like, you know, copy what works. But next time someone tells you that we don't want a Swedish-style state, ask them why not?



PeonForHer -> RE: The Swedish model: it's not just saunas. (9/2/2013 5:09:56 AM)

Aswad doesn't appear to be around at the moment, so I'll give a shortened version of his view for him:

"Yes, Sweden is good, though not as good as Norway".

[;)]



thishereboi -> RE: The Swedish model: it's not just saunas. (9/2/2013 5:18:11 AM)

quote:

But next time someone tells you that we don't want a Swedish-style state, ask them why not?


I sure will, but in the mean time. What the fuck is a neolib?



Hillwilliam -> RE: The Swedish model: it's not just saunas. (9/2/2013 6:01:52 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi

quote:

But next time someone tells you that we don't want a Swedish-style state, ask them why not?


I sure will, but in the mean time. What the fuck is a neolib?

If you look at " the secret of prosperity is small government, low taxes and minimal public services." it appears to be what a conservative used to be 35 years ago before they invited the Bible beaters into the party.



thishereboi -> RE: The Swedish model: it's not just saunas. (9/2/2013 6:05:23 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam


quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi

quote:

But next time someone tells you that we don't want a Swedish-style state, ask them why not?


I sure will, but in the mean time. What the fuck is a neolib?

If you look at " the secret of prosperity is small government, low taxes and minimal public services." it appears to be what a conservative used to be 35 years ago before they invited the Bible beaters into the party.



That is what I though also which is why I was confused when he used the term "lib". Generally that refers to a liberal but I have never heard anyone say they want any of that.



tazzygirl -> RE: The Swedish model: it's not just saunas. (9/2/2013 7:30:19 AM)

Classical neoliberalism's respect for tradition, combined with its pragmatic approach to progress, endeared it to conservative movements around the world looking for a way to adapt to the changing nature of the modern world. This saw it adopted by conservative movements, most famously in Chile under Pinochet, the United Kingdom under Margaret Thatcher[81] and in the United States of America under Ronald Reagan.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neoliberalism



graceadieu -> RE: The Swedish model: it's not just saunas. (9/2/2013 8:54:52 AM)

That's a good point. When you look at the countries that are doing the best economically, or at least that have the highest GDP per capita, it's not the US. We're around #15 on that list.

The ones above us - minus the countries whose whole economy is oil or banking (UAE, Monaco, etc) - are slightly-socialist countries with a strong safety net and broad government-provided or mandated social services. Sweden, Norway, Denmark, Canada, Australia.



MrRodgers -> RE: The Swedish model: it's not just saunas. (9/2/2013 11:18:45 AM)

Speaking of Australia. Oil is imported while gold production is up and exported. Imports are 19% of GDP and exports are 19%.

Unemployment 5.5-5.7%% and minimum wage is $16.68/hr. Just think, a living wage and national health care ? Geez, what bunch of communist/socialists hey ? Same as all of those Scandinavians. You'd think unlike America where we are doing so much better having society serve economy, that economy was really actually to serve society. That's ok...they'll learn,

Their economy has grown 13% in 6 years and has enjoyed 21 straight years of growth.



DaNewAgeViking -> RE: The Swedish model: it's not just saunas. (9/2/2013 1:24:59 PM)

One can't help but wonder if the philosophy of economic and social justice, as practiced in Scandinavia, et al, might have something to do with it? You know: keep the 1%ers in check - fair wages - safety net... It must really worry the Radicals to see the rest of the world leaving us behind, ya think?
[sm=sad.gif]



PeonForHer -> RE: The Swedish model: it's not just saunas. (9/2/2013 2:31:03 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DaNewAgeViking

One can't help but wonder if the philosophy of economic and social justice, as practiced in Scandinavia, et al, might have something to do with it? You know: keep the 1%ers in check - fair wages - safety net... It must really worry the Radicals to see the rest of the world leaving us behind, ya think?
[sm=sad.gif]


No, that would never work. What would happen is that all dynamism in people would be crushed and we'd end up like semi-human machines (except with beards). I saw it all on Star Trek with the Borg.



DaNewAgeViking -> RE: The Swedish model: it's not just saunas. (9/2/2013 3:48:54 PM)

I sincerely hope you are being cynical, since anyone who actually believes treating people like human beings is wrong would be dangerous.
[sm=couch.gif]



PeonForHer -> RE: The Swedish model: it's not just saunas. (9/2/2013 4:40:34 PM)

I was being both cynical and somewhat silly, DNAK.



MrRodgers -> RE: The Swedish model: it's not just saunas. (9/3/2013 7:25:08 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer


quote:

ORIGINAL: DaNewAgeViking

One can't help but wonder if the philosophy of economic and social justice, as practiced in Scandinavia, et al, might have something to do with it? You know: keep the 1%ers in check - fair wages - safety net... It must really worry the Radicals to see the rest of the world leaving us behind, ya think?
[sm=sad.gif]


No, that would never work. What would happen is that all dynamism in people would be crushed and we'd end up like semi-human machines (except with beards). I saw it all on Star Trek with the Borg.

The 'Borg' reflects the ultimate communism hey. All people (units) the same, the ultimate in collectivism, stealing others technology to advance. Sounds like the 'yellow hoards.'

Watch out, here they come. People just don't get it. Once the corporation was enthroned, economy became something that society was to serve...not the other way around like all of these countries referred to above that have govts. that act on this travesty.

In America we can simplify all of this...it's called greed. Greed is fundamental to capitalism. Look kinkroids, we've arrived at a point where even college is making less and less of a difference. With being able to hire cheaper foreigners, we further degrade the American dream and are truly turning it into the American nightmare.



MasterCaneman -> RE: The Swedish model: it's not just saunas. (9/3/2013 9:13:47 AM)

I'd be okay with the Swedish Model if it included actual Swedish models...[;)]



Moonhead -> RE: The Swedish model: it's not just saunas. (9/3/2013 12:35:00 PM)

Hey, you have to take these things in stages.
In another generation there'll be a whole load of girls who could eat healthy, afford an orthodontist, and worked out as kids, all coming of age at once, dig?



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