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Missokyst -> Revenge porn law in CA (9/3/2013 2:38:30 PM)

'Revenge porn' law in California could pave way for rest of nation

http://www.nbcnews.com/technology/revenge-porn-law-story-goes-here-needs-awesome-hed-8C11022538
Suzanne Choney, NBC News

A bill that would criminalize "revenge porn" — nude or sexual photos, generally of former wives or girlfriends, posted online by an angry ex — could pave the way for other states to adopt similar laws, putting perpetrators in jail for six months if convicted a first time, and up to a year for repeat violations. The bill, already approved by the California Senate, is expected to go to the state Assembly as soon as this week, despite concerns from some lawmakers and experts who fear it could curtail First Amendment rights.

"It's traumatized real victims; it's a growing problem," California state Sen. Anthony Cannella, told NBC News. "Technology moves much faster than our laws," said Cannella, a Republican, who authored the legislation. "When we identify a problem, it's our responsibility to deal with it."

If passed by the Assembly, SB 255 will go to Gov. Jerry Brown for approval. It's not clear whether Brown will support it. "Generally, we do not comment on pending legislation," Brown press spokesman Evan Westrup told NBC News.

One supporter with whom Cannella has been working is Holly Jacobs, a Florida woman who founded End Revenge Porn after her own nightmare with the issue began more than four years ago.

Like many other couples, Jacobs and her boyfriend had private photos of intimate moments — photos not meant for public consumption. After their breakup, Jacobs saw her photos plastered everywhere on the Web, including on Facebook and several revenge porn sites. Her email address was part of what was shared, "so I had harassing emails constantly coming in," she told TODAY's Matt Lauer in May. "My work location was posted up and there, so I was terrified. I was so afraid that someone would physically stalk me."

In the era of instant uploads, a slimy sub-industry of sites have emerged that are dedicated solely to such "revenge porn" shots and videos. It has become a money-making "sport," of which one of the most notorious players is Hunter Moore, who was under FBI investigation for his controversial site, Is Anyone Up.

Though the sites often include personal information about the victims, including names, email addresses and even links to their Facebook profiles, the sites themselves are protected from liability because of Section 230 of the federal Communications Decency Act, which says that websites and Internet service providers can be treated as a publisher for "any information provided by another information content provider." With little legal recourse, these victims are left feeling helpless and humiliated.

Jacobs' fear turned to anger, and she decided she would no longer be a victim. She filed criminal and civil charges against her ex. The ex, through his attorney, has denied the charges against him, contending he is just as much a victim as Jacobs, and that the reason the photos and video were shared is that his computer was hacked.

Those who might think, "Well, you shouldn't have taken those photos ... " aren't living in the real world of what has become, especially for a younger generation, a cultural-technological phenomenon as normal as tweeting and texting.

"It’s absolutely just a new version of victim blaming," Jacobs said in May. "What I would say to victims when they hear that is, just hold on to that little voice inside of you that says, 'This is not right.' What's happening to me is not OK, and there need to be laws in place against this."

The California legislation, Jacobs told NBC News, "is so important because it has the potential to set a precedent for other states considering to criminalize revenge porn."

Precedents and objections
The state that comes closest to doing that now is New Jersey, which since 2003 has had an invasion-of-privacy law aimed at video voyeurs, people who secretly videotape others naked or having sex without their consent, according to a spokesman for the Office of the Attorney General in that state.


That law was one of those used to prosecute Rutgers University student Dharun Ravi, found guilty last year after setting up a webcam to spy on his gay roommate, Tyler Clementi, in 2010. Ravi livestreamed the video and tweeted about his roommates's activities. Clementi, 18, committed suicide after learning about the public humiliation.

"Legislators did not discuss the issue of 'revenge porn' in passing this law" in 2003, Peter Aseltine, a spokesman for the New Jersey attorney general's office, told NBC News. "Nonetheless, the language of the statute is quite broad and arguably applies to allow prosecution of an individual in a 'revenge porn' situation."

Other revenge porn law efforts could soon be underway in Texas, Wisconsin and Georgia, Jacobs said.

While most everyone will agree that the revenge porn practice is reprehensible, crafting legislation that doesn't inadvertently restrict free speech is the challenge.

In Florida, where Jacobs lives, an attempt at a revenge porn law failed this year partly because of concerns the way the law was written could interfere with free speech. Jacobs cited another concern: a requirement that personal information, such as the victim's name and email address, also be posted as part of the photos or videos shared.

"I'm sure the revenge porn posters would have easily found a way around this," she told NBC News. "Our personal information is already posted when our faces are in these pictures."

Florida State Sen. David Simmons and state Rep. Tom Goodson, both Republicans, plan to try again with a new bill with different wording next spring when the legislature is back in session.

Jeff Hermes, director of the Digital Media Law Project at the Berkman Center for Internet & Society at Harvard University, said a "balance needs to be struck properly," and he is not sure the California law will do that.

"You need to be extraordinarily careful in criminalizing privacy law because of the risk you're going to deter legitimate speech," he told NBC News. "With the California bill, I don't see an exemption here for material that's legitimately newsworthy."

Take for example, he said, "circumstances where photographs exist of a political candidate who has run their campaign on their squeaky-clean image," but there are photographs of that candidate in a compromising position. "The distribution of these photos could indicate (to voters) that candidate might be lying about their past."

The revenge porn bill, Hermes said, is "responding to a significant concern, and I don't want to downplay that. It is a law in a field which is already heavily regulated — privacy — and where there are court remedies. But the question is whether the criminal penalties are necessary to achieve the aims already provided by existing law."

Only one California state senator, Leland Yee, a Democrat, voted against SB 255 when it came before the senate last month. His reason: "First Amendment protections are fundamental to our free society," he said in a statement to NBC News. "While I appreciate the intent of this legislation, I feel it was too broadly drawn and could potentially be used inappropriately to censor free speech."








OsideGirl -> RE: Revenge porn law in CA (9/3/2013 3:03:42 PM)

Oh, the irony of Leland Yee being concerned about Constitutional rights.

I agree that what ever they do will be a fine line, but even here on CM, we had that guy that set up his ex to get raped. There needs to be something in place to deal with people that will do that.




LookieNoNookie -> RE: Revenge porn law in CA (9/3/2013 3:49:47 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Missokyst

'Revenge porn' law in California could pave way for rest of nation

http://www.nbcnews.com/technology/revenge-porn-law-story-goes-here-needs-awesome-hed-8C11022538
Suzanne Choney, NBC News

A bill that would criminalize "revenge porn" — nude or sexual photos, generally of former wives or girlfriends, posted online by an angry ex — could pave the way for other states to adopt similar laws, putting perpetrators in jail for six months if convicted a first time, and up to a year for repeat violations. The bill, already approved by the California Senate, is expected to go to the state Assembly as soon as this week, despite concerns from some lawmakers and experts who fear it could curtail First Amendment rights.

"It's traumatized real victims; it's a growing problem," California state Sen. Anthony Cannella, told NBC News. "Technology moves much faster than our laws," said Cannella, a Republican, who authored the legislation. "When we identify a problem, it's our responsibility to deal with it."

If passed by the Assembly, SB 255 will go to Gov. Jerry Brown for approval. It's not clear whether Brown will support it. "Generally, we do not comment on pending legislation," Brown press spokesman Evan Westrup told NBC News.

One supporter with whom Cannella has been working is Holly Jacobs, a Florida woman who founded End Revenge Porn after her own nightmare with the issue began more than four years ago.

Like many other couples, Jacobs and her boyfriend had private photos of intimate moments — photos not meant for public consumption. After their breakup, Jacobs saw her photos plastered everywhere on the Web, including on Facebook and several revenge porn sites. Her email address was part of what was shared, "so I had harassing emails constantly coming in," she told TODAY's Matt Lauer in May. "My work location was posted up and there, so I was terrified. I was so afraid that someone would physically stalk me."

In the era of instant uploads, a slimy sub-industry of sites have emerged that are dedicated solely to such "revenge porn" shots and videos. It has become a money-making "sport," of which one of the most notorious players is Hunter Moore, who was under FBI investigation for his controversial site, Is Anyone Up.

Though the sites often include personal information about the victims, including names, email addresses and even links to their Facebook profiles, the sites themselves are protected from liability because of Section 230 of the federal Communications Decency Act, which says that websites and Internet service providers can be treated as a publisher for "any information provided by another information content provider." With little legal recourse, these victims are left feeling helpless and humiliated.

Jacobs' fear turned to anger, and she decided she would no longer be a victim. She filed criminal and civil charges against her ex. The ex, through his attorney, has denied the charges against him, contending he is just as much a victim as Jacobs, and that the reason the photos and video were shared is that his computer was hacked.

Those who might think, "Well, you shouldn't have taken those photos ... " aren't living in the real world of what has become, especially for a younger generation, a cultural-technological phenomenon as normal as tweeting and texting.

"It’s absolutely just a new version of victim blaming," Jacobs said in May. "What I would say to victims when they hear that is, just hold on to that little voice inside of you that says, 'This is not right.' What's happening to me is not OK, and there need to be laws in place against this."

The California legislation, Jacobs told NBC News, "is so important because it has the potential to set a precedent for other states considering to criminalize revenge porn."

Precedents and objections
The state that comes closest to doing that now is New Jersey, which since 2003 has had an invasion-of-privacy law aimed at video voyeurs, people who secretly videotape others naked or having sex without their consent, according to a spokesman for the Office of the Attorney General in that state.


That law was one of those used to prosecute Rutgers University student Dharun Ravi, found guilty last year after setting up a webcam to spy on his gay roommate, Tyler Clementi, in 2010. Ravi livestreamed the video and tweeted about his roommates's activities. Clementi, 18, committed suicide after learning about the public humiliation.

"Legislators did not discuss the issue of 'revenge porn' in passing this law" in 2003, Peter Aseltine, a spokesman for the New Jersey attorney general's office, told NBC News. "Nonetheless, the language of the statute is quite broad and arguably applies to allow prosecution of an individual in a 'revenge porn' situation."

Other revenge porn law efforts could soon be underway in Texas, Wisconsin and Georgia, Jacobs said.

While most everyone will agree that the revenge porn practice is reprehensible, crafting legislation that doesn't inadvertently restrict free speech is the challenge.

In Florida, where Jacobs lives, an attempt at a revenge porn law failed this year partly because of concerns the way the law was written could interfere with free speech. Jacobs cited another concern: a requirement that personal information, such as the victim's name and email address, also be posted as part of the photos or videos shared.

"I'm sure the revenge porn posters would have easily found a way around this," she told NBC News. "Our personal information is already posted when our faces are in these pictures."

Florida State Sen. David Simmons and state Rep. Tom Goodson, both Republicans, plan to try again with a new bill with different wording next spring when the legislature is back in session.

Jeff Hermes, director of the Digital Media Law Project at the Berkman Center for Internet & Society at Harvard University, said a "balance needs to be struck properly," and he is not sure the California law will do that.

"You need to be extraordinarily careful in criminalizing privacy law because of the risk you're going to deter legitimate speech," he told NBC News. "With the California bill, I don't see an exemption here for material that's legitimately newsworthy."

Take for example, he said, "circumstances where photographs exist of a political candidate who has run their campaign on their squeaky-clean image," but there are photographs of that candidate in a compromising position. "The distribution of these photos could indicate (to voters) that candidate might be lying about their past."

The revenge porn bill, Hermes said, is "responding to a significant concern, and I don't want to downplay that. It is a law in a field which is already heavily regulated — privacy — and where there are court remedies. But the question is whether the criminal penalties are necessary to achieve the aims already provided by existing law."

Only one California state senator, Leland Yee, a Democrat, voted against SB 255 when it came before the senate last month. His reason: "First Amendment protections are fundamental to our free society," he said in a statement to NBC News. "While I appreciate the intent of this legislation, I feel it was too broadly drawn and could potentially be used inappropriately to censor free speech."







Revenge porn....all they've done is given a new sub category for porn sellers.





JeffBC -> RE: Revenge porn law in CA (9/4/2013 7:56:56 AM)

This should be interesting. Historically the US doesn't have much interest in personal privacy. I predict a few ham-fisted laws which generally don't work out well and solve nothing.




DesideriScuri -> RE: Revenge porn law in CA (9/4/2013 8:01:20 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffBC
This should be interesting. Historically the US doesn't have much interest in personal privacy. I predict a few ham-fisted laws which generally don't work out well and solve nothing.


Shouldn't this fall under libel/slander law?




JeffBC -> RE: Revenge porn law in CA (9/4/2013 8:13:31 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
Shouldn't this fall under libel/slander law?

Therein is the rub and why this will fail. The US doesn't have the underlying legal foundation deal with the very direct and very obvious issue of "personal privacy". That is largely because we don't have any such notion in our country. So instead we'll hang this under some hopeful looking hook like "libel" or somesuch and it'll be a godawful mess.




Moonhead -> RE: Revenge porn law in CA (9/4/2013 10:43:51 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffBC
This should be interesting. Historically the US doesn't have much interest in personal privacy. I predict a few ham-fisted laws which generally don't work out well and solve nothing.


Shouldn't this fall under libel/slander law?


I'm surprised it doesn't, now that you mention that.




tazzygirl -> RE: Revenge porn law in CA (9/4/2013 10:50:21 AM)

Libel/slander are civil penalties. This bill looks to criminalize the acts.




DesideriScuri -> RE: Revenge porn law in CA (9/4/2013 11:51:17 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl
Libel/slander are civil penalties. This bill looks to criminalize the acts.


Thanks for the explanation, tazzy.

Civil vs. Criminal

I don't see "revenge porn" as "harmful to society as a whole," so I can't see how this could legitimately be considered criminal.




mnottertail -> RE: Revenge porn law in CA (9/4/2013 12:00:16 PM)

Sorta like chemical weapons. Now you get it?

If I murder someone, it is criminal, do you see how that is rather harmful to society as a whole? by society they dont mean people as separate individuals...you know; society.




DesideriScuri -> RE: Revenge porn law in CA (9/4/2013 12:14:59 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail
Sorta like chemical weapons. Now you get it?
If I murder someone, it is criminal, do you see how that is rather harmful to society as a whole? by society they dont mean people as separate individuals...you know; society.


No fucking clue what you're on about here, MN.




Moonhead -> RE: Revenge porn law in CA (9/4/2013 12:53:02 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
I don't see "revenge porn" as "harmful to society as a whole," so I can't see how this could legitimately be considered criminal.

Neither is assault or criminal damage, both of which were criminal offences last time I checked.




DesideriScuri -> RE: Revenge porn law in CA (9/4/2013 1:01:10 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
I don't see "revenge porn" as "harmful to society as a whole," so I can't see how this could legitimately be considered criminal.

Neither is assault or criminal damage, both of which were criminal offences last time I checked.


So, the distinction from findlaw.com isn't correct.




mnottertail -> RE: Revenge porn law in CA (9/4/2013 1:19:10 PM)

go figure out what society is.

It is sorta at: the aggregate of people living together in a more or less ordered community.

That means if you in your right mind (or even drunk) go riding english style down the street and kill somebody, it is a crime.

Cuz here, we drive on the right, for the good of society as a whole.

dont focus on as a whole and take it to mean something it doesnt.




mnottertail -> RE: Revenge porn law in CA (9/4/2013 1:24:12 PM)

That is why, to be an illegal alien in this country is a civil matter.
To hire them is a criminal and a civil matter.




tazzygirl -> RE: Revenge porn law in CA (9/4/2013 3:45:15 PM)

quote:

I don't see "revenge porn" as "harmful to society as a whole," so I can't see how this could legitimately be considered criminal.


Im not so sure we are seeing this the same way. I do see it as harmful to society as a whole when careers of these victims can be destroyed, when humiliation is used as a terror tactic with threats, or the actuality, of exposure.

Blackmail isnt against everyone, its one victim. Yet its a criminal offense. This, to me, isnt any different.




DesideriScuri -> RE: Revenge porn law in CA (9/4/2013 4:00:11 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl
quote:

I don't see "revenge porn" as "harmful to society as a whole," so I can't see how this could legitimately be considered criminal.

Im not so sure we are seeing this the same way. I do see it as harmful to society as a whole when careers of these victims can be destroyed, when humiliation is used as a terror tactic with threats, or the actuality, of exposure.
Blackmail isnt against everyone, its one victim. Yet its a criminal offense. This, to me, isnt any different.


Oh, FFS. That isn't going to affect all of society.

Also, understand that "humiliation is used as a terror tactic with threats" would be blackmail, thus not being part of this.

But, you should have noticed that I based my statement on the definition given (and cited by me) from findlaw.com. When it was shown that it was not as the citation given, of course my statement is no longer valid, as it's basis isn't valid.

I still don't see "revenge porn" as damaging to society; to our daily lives. Should publishing embarrassing photos taken by the paparazzi also be a criminal offense?

"Outing" MN's favorite nutsucker for his hand signals under the divider in a MN airport could also be a criminal offense, couldn't it? I mean, this guy's whole career could have been destroyed (and could have been destroyed... I'm too many miles away to care about that distinction).

If Obama would have lost the '08 election and they pinned that loss on the damage done by the Joe the Plumber interaction video going viral, would that have been a criminal offense?




tazzygirl -> RE: Revenge porn law in CA (9/4/2013 4:26:24 PM)

quote:

Oh, FFS. That isn't going to affect all of society.


How many does it have to affect to affect enough of society for you to consider it valid of a criminal offence? Murder doesnt affect all of society, only the victims.

quote:

I still don't see "revenge porn" as damaging to society; to our daily lives. Should publishing embarrassing photos taken by the paparazzi also be a criminal offense?


Depending on the porn, it can definitely affect members of society in adverse ways. A private photo shoot between two individuals ends up in the public venue, careers can be sunk .... politicians... even legal positions, lawyers judges, ect.... someone in a high position of authority.... Im truly surprised that you cannot see the far reaching effects this can have. And its not just against women. What about a man running for political office who had photos taken 10 years ago at a frat party with a dick in his mouth? he may have been drunk at the time, even passed out, but there is the photo.

Paparazzis deal with the famous and infamous. Their level of libel/slander requires a more than just the general public. We are speaking about private citizens, not the celebrity world.

quote:

"Outing" MN's favorite nutsucker for his hand signals under the divider in a MN airport could also be a criminal offense, couldn't it? I mean, this guy's whole career could have been destroyed (and could have been destroyed... I'm too many miles away to care about that distinction).


Would anyone have cared if he wasnt a politician already and therefore falling into the "famous/infamous" category? Nope. He sought the lime light, now he has to live within it. Janie Sue didnt seek it. She sought to make her bf happy, so she let him take some racy photos in the privacy of their home. How is it right that he can slam her photos all over the net because he is butt hurt?





DesideriScuri -> RE: Revenge porn law in CA (9/4/2013 4:31:34 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl
Paparazzis deal with the famous and infamous. Their level of libel/slander requires a more than just the general public. We are speaking about private citizens, not the celebrity world.


Everyone is equal. Some are just more equal. Got it.

quote:

Would anyone have cared if he wasnt a politician already and therefore falling into the "famous/infamous" category? Nope. He sought the lime light, now he has to live within it. Janie Sue didnt seek it. She sought to make her bf happy, so she let him take some racy photos in the privacy of their home. How is it right that he can slam her photos all over the net because he is butt hurt?


Where did I say it was "right" for him to use those pics against her?

Oh, yeah. Nowhere. I was the one that brought up the libel/slander question, 'member?






tazzygirl -> RE: Revenge porn law in CA (9/4/2013 4:38:46 PM)

No, someone who pushes their way into the "public realm" opens themselves up to public scrutiny.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_figure

quote:

Oh, yeah. Nowhere. I was the one that brought up the libel/slander question, 'member?


And you continued on to say its not "going to affect all of society". Maybe you need to go google "my ex girlfriends pictures"




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