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Equals? - 6/30/2006 2:35:44 PM   
desertdancer


Posts: 1095
Joined: 5/12/2006
Status: offline 		I'm sure this has been discussed and re-discussed, however I'm finding myself having an issue with Master.  I have spoken with him about this and I understand his word is law, and I love that, however, he feels that we are equals on every level.  Master and I first have a loving relationship, love came before D/s for us, so I know I am deeply loved, however I do not feel as though we should be equals.  I do understand in this type of relationship it takes two make make D/s work and that we both give to the other, however there is this place deep within my core that rebels at the idea of being his equal.  I am not sure if this is some sort of defect in me, I just do not feel as though my place on the totem pole should be as high as his.  Please don't misunderstand, this isn't me saying I'm not worthy or not lovable enough to be equals, that is not the issue.  It's hard to describe, but this primal place just can not lay down and rest inside me when he treats me as an equal.  I do like having a voice in our relationship, but I feel like my voice should not be as strong as his.

What I am asking is, is this ever an issue for others?  If so how was it handled? I am trying to lay that place inside me to rest, I am happy and content in everything else but this. I do realise this sounds like a small issue, but it's an issue I'm struggling with and would love advise.  My head says this is what Master wants and I have no say because he has spoken, and normally that is enough to put me at rest with other issues... however with this issue my tummy is prowling and wont curl up and sleep.

Thank you,
~dancer

Ps: anyone feel free to offer help


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RE: Equals? - 6/30/2006 2:38:46 PM   
tangldupinblue


Posts: 230
Joined: 3/20/2006
Status: offline 		i understand, i can not however explain it any better then you did.

have you talked to him about this at all?

blue

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RE: Equals? - 6/30/2006 2:51:51 PM   
desertdancer


Posts: 1095
Joined: 5/12/2006
Status: offline 		I sure have spoken to him about it, it is something he will not bend on, and i wont push the issue, somehow I have to make what my deepest places  reconcile this so that I can lay it to rest inside me.


I am sorry if this post didnt belong here, I wasn't sure where to put it, so I figured any place would work

~dancer

< Message edited by desertdancer -- 6/30/2006 2:52:33 PM >

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RE: Equals? - 6/30/2006 4:00:37 PM   
skaterboy


Posts: 58
Joined: 6/27/2006
Status: offline 		The constitution says "all men are created equal", not all people. So, tell him to read the constitution and to realize you are a beautiful woman who is happy to serve and to be second on the totem pole.
Good luck D.D.

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RE: Equals? - 6/30/2006 4:01:33 PM   
MizSuz


Posts: 1881
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		This is a very good question.  Perhaps your solution lay in adjusting your perspective.

I read you saying that you interpret your relationship in a linear hierarchical fashion.  Meaning there is only top to bottom.  He is top and you are bottom (hence the 'totem pole' analogy).  You see it in a straight line.

Is it within your power to see your relationship as a circle or a sphere?  There are many straight lines that can be had in a sphere if you need them, but if you look at it you see that the whole is only the sum of it's parts, the left side of the sphere is not better or less than the right side of the sphere, they exist at the same time and without each other the whole would not exist.  In that light all parts of the sphere are equal because all parts make the whole.

For the practical side of day to day dynamics use your linear perspective because it seems to work for you, but for the bigger picture you may need to expand your perception a bit.

You are flip sides of the same coin.  Neither side is better, they both make the whole, but one is heads and one is tails.

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RE: Equals? - 6/30/2006 4:06:20 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		Simple........I take out 100% of the garbage, you suck 100% of the cock.  I do 100% of the barbequeing and drinking beer, and you do 100% of the cleanup.  I shovel 80% of the snow and you shovel 20%.  I leave the toilet seats up100% of the time and you bitch about it 100% of the calendar days.......

You do the math........equals.

Desert, you know me.......the point is serious.

Nothing to obsess about here you and Master are one. How can it not be equal?


< Message edited by mnottertail -- 6/30/2006 4:07:46 PM >

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RE: Equals? - 6/30/2006 4:21:03 PM   
MasterFireMaam


Posts: 5587
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From: Charleston, WV
Status: offline 		The two of you are equal as human beings. you have decided, as a mature adult, to be subservient to him, and he has accepted this, as a mature adult himself. Being subservient doesn't mean you are less equal. Being subservient means you have surrendered yourself to him.

A diamond doesn't loose its intrinsic value nor become less a diamond when it's owned.

Master Fire

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RE: Equals? - 6/30/2006 4:21:05 PM   
gooddogbenji


Posts: 5094
Joined: 11/15/2005
From: Toronto
Status: offline 		I kinda understand what you mean - to me submitting means just that that: submitting to her will.   In doing that, I acknowledge that she is more important than I am, and that her needs are placed above mine.  If I had a Mistress who decided that, because I like a beating, I'll get one every day, whether she wants to give me one or not, that would not be submitting, to me. 

If someone sees me as an equal, it makes submitting a game for me.  Just as I do not enjoy roleplaying games, I would not enjoy a "fake" submission, in my opinion, where I am the equal partner and my wants are as important as hers.

Is that how you feel, Desert?  Or did I go off on a random tangent?  I do have a habit of doing that.....

Yours,


benji

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RE: Equals? - 6/30/2006 4:28:46 PM   
skaterboy


Posts: 58
Joined: 6/27/2006
Status: offline 		Bad Dog....down boy.....she does not want to be the equal partner and you do, unless I have missed both of your points?
Goes back and reads again, now I'm confused?

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RE: Equals? - 6/30/2006 4:40:18 PM   
gooddogbenji


Posts: 5094
Joined: 11/15/2005
From: Toronto
Status: offline 		Actually, I was saying I don't want to be equal to my owner, just like the shimmying dancer.

Yours,


benji

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RE: Equals? - 6/30/2006 4:54:34 PM   
MizSuz


Posts: 1881
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: gooddogbenji

If someone sees me as an equal, it makes submitting a game for me.  Just as I do not enjoy roleplaying games, I would not enjoy a "fake" submission, in my opinion, where I am the equal partner and my wants are as important as hers.


That's a very interesting perspective.  For me it's nearly the opposite.  Someone submits to me because they choose to, regardless of our dynamic the choice is always present.  To my mind that's what makes it (it being submission) real.  For me to take something from you is easy for you.  I want you to offer it or I don't have much interest in it. 

Being an equal partner, to my mind, doesn't have to change the dynamic.  There is no rule that says because you are of equal value it by default means you get equal say.  Or that your preferences get equal consideration or what weight it should or shouldn't get.  That is between the parties to iron out.  Of course, if what I want isn't what you are willing to give then perhaps we shouldn't be together.  But see, that bitter sweet agony of knowing you can walk but choosing not to is where I want you to be.  <shrug>  It sends me.

Your choice to submit to me (especially when it sucks), for me, is what makes it real.

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“The more you love, the more you can love—and the more intensely you love. Nor is there any limit on how many you can love. If a person had time enough, he could love all of that majority who are decent and just.”
- Robert Heinlein

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RE: Equals? - 6/30/2006 5:25:13 PM   
desertdancer


Posts: 1095
Joined: 5/12/2006
Status: offline 		Everyone here has good points and I thank you all.  I will try to look at it more as a sphere, that is more how Master sees it too.  I do tend to see things in straight lines.

benji- what you said rings true for me to to an extent, to be equal one moment then the next put that aside to be subservient is walking a fine line I guess.  I have a hard time with having my wants being equal to his, maybe that is because I am so focused on his wants, that when it comes to having my own, I'm thrown.  I mean I DO have wants, but they are something I have to think about or concentrate on in order to articulate them when asked, because I push them down in order to sub (not always)  Having to switch gears from being equals to subservient isn't like a light switch for me, to turn on and off.  I am not thoughtless or a doormat but truly my wants just don't mean anything to me if  Master is in need or want of something, if that makes any sense at all.

Masterfire- your point is beautifully worded and does make sense to me, I know that I am no less valuable nor are my opinions for my submission to him, my head understands that, it does, but my heart doesn't, just doesn't want to be his equal I guess, ug!

mnottertail- i was with you all the way till the bitching about the toilet thing, it doesn't bother me at all when he does that * shakes head*

~dancer


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RE: Equals? - 6/30/2006 5:26:36 PM   
desertdancer


Posts: 1095
Joined: 5/12/2006
Status: offline 		benji * re-read the post and drops my jaw* you did it! you posted without hijacking, good boy, you can pee on my leg now as reward 

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RE: Equals? - 6/30/2006 5:28:52 PM   
gooddogbenji


Posts: 5094
Joined: 11/15/2005
From: Toronto
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: desertdancer

benji * re-read the post and drops my jaw* you did it! you posted without hijacking, good boy, you can pee on my leg now as reward 



Look!  A fluffer!

Yours,


benji

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RE: Equals? - 6/30/2006 6:02:16 PM   
Caretakr


Posts: 1221
Joined: 6/24/2006
Status: offline 		I hate to have to say this so harshly,but he has put aside his perogative.

If you are his equal,it's egalitarian, not M/s.

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RE: Equals? - 6/30/2006 6:13:46 PM   
gooddogbenji


Posts: 5094
Joined: 11/15/2005
From: Toronto
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Caretakr

I hate to have to say this so harshly,but he has put aside his perogative.

If you are his equal,it's egalitarian, not M/s.



But if she doesn't want to be equal, and he does, and they end up being equal, they are not equal, because his desires came first, meaning that she won, because they are not equal, so he is her slave, which no one wanted.

Yours,


benji

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RE: Equals? - 6/30/2006 9:11:29 PM   
Smythe


Posts: 369
Joined: 12/31/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: gooddogbenji

quote:

ORIGINAL: Caretakr

I hate to have to say this so harshly,but he has put aside his perogative.

If you are his equal,it's egalitarian, not M/s.



But if she doesn't want to be equal, and he does, and they end up being equal, they are not equal, because his desires came first, meaning that she won, because they are not equal, so he is her slave, which no one wanted.

Yours,


benji




benji makes a (silly sounding but) excellent point here. It is one of the conundrums of DS relationships. Because my first thought was : this woman needs be treated a little more like a slave. Deep inside, she is saying, she needs this. Why must she change her desires or see things differently? Why doesn't he act a little more dominantly?
But, benji asks, doesn't that automatically make him less dominant?

Sadly, this sounds like a great love relationship and a less successful Ds one. It will require some negotiation to make both people happy.

When a submissive is being treated like an equal, it can get quite depressing for them, as they try to do it to themselves in their heads. It is like those submissive husbands who try to create a taste of DS in a their vanilla marriage by always taking out the garbage, giving foot massage and lots of oral sex. But if the wife doesn't get it, it can be sad.

Smythe







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RE: Equals? - 7/1/2006 8:26:38 AM   
thetammyjo


Posts: 6322
Joined: 9/8/2005
Status: offline 		I'm not clear, desertdancer, by what you mean that he is your master but feels you are equals on every level and treats you like an equal.

What exactly, other than saying "I think you are equal to me" does he do?

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RE: Equals? - 7/1/2006 9:04:54 AM   
LadyHugs


Posts: 2299
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		Dear desertdancer, Ladies and Gentlemen;

Equals in a M/s and or D/s dynamic in my mind's eyes is the dynamic itself as an investment and service to each other.  Both a Master and slave must be fed in order to keep the relationship.  So, in feeding equally the balance is fed and relationship maintained.

If one has to be the source of feeding all the time, it will be a point in time that they are drained of energy and hungry to be fed.  It doesn't matter if it is slave or Master, everybody has to do their share to feed the relationship. 

In the area of M/s, there might not always be an equal measure to the internal eyes of the relationship but, for the people on the outside, the relationship manages to package itself for consumer consumption, to which appears to be equal.  By doing what we do best that creates this view of others to appear equal, is what happens behind the scenes.

In summary, no matter what appearance it gives to be otherwise, a M/s relationship is a fluid relationship of giving and taking.  We get pleasure fully in the positions we choose. Thus equally contented.

Respectfully submitted for consideration,
Lady Hugs

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RE: Equals? - 7/1/2006 11:20:10 AM   
desertdancer


Posts: 1095
Joined: 5/12/2006
Status: offline 		I've spoken to him again last night, and It seems I greatly misunderstood what he was meaning.  He says we are equals in that we both love each other  and that we cherish each other, we're equals in that we are both human and will both need to have needs met. He said that we are equals in that we both will be giving and taking and offering and receiving, and that we are to be equal in some major things, like where to live, how many children, but when it comes to who is in charge, we no longer will be equal.  He will be in charge and he made it quite clear that i will strive to meet the demands of his will, and that when it comes to day to day things his voice will be spoken for both of us.

I am sorry I troubled the forums with my misunderstanding, it turns out he and I were both on the same page, I just didn't have enough clarity in his words and for quite a while I didn't know how to voice what I was feeling to him, I am glad I did, and I am glad that so many of you gave such good advise, thank you.

~dancer




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