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Rape -- Not Guilty Verdict / Bondage Sex Defense - 9/6/2013 7:34:15 PM

cloudboy

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Nelson Bernard Clifford has been tried in three separate rape cases in recent years. Each time, he was linked through DNA to the scene and his accuser said she had been bound, blindfolded and attacked.

And each time, the 35-year-old was acquitted after giving similar testimony: He said the sex was consensual and surmised the women accused him of rape because they were either upset over a financial dispute or worried their boyfriends would find out.

Read more: http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/maryland/crime/blog/bs-md-ci-clifford-rape-acquittals-20130922,0,1648534.story#ixzz2eAbr9DBo

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I think the prosecution here needs to bring in some expert BDSM witness testimony. Consenting BDSM partners typically would have worked out the consent in advance and would have a history of play together. When contrasting this with what appears to be a one-time rape-bondage scene, I think you could impeach the defendant's testimony.

How would you try to prosecute this man?

< Message edited by cloudboy -- 9/6/2013 7:36:55 PM >

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RE: Rape -- Not Guilty Verdict / Bondage Sex Defense - 9/6/2013 8:32:00 PM

sloguy02246

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Instead of searching for some expert BDSM witnesses, it seems to me that the Baltimore attorney general's office should be looking for some competent prosecutors.
Three rape accusations involving the same guy, the same scenario, and he is acquitted each time?
HELLO? D.A.'s OFFICE? HELLO?

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RE: Rape -- Not Guilty Verdict / Bondage Sex Defense - 9/6/2013 8:37:25 PM

theshytype

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That's scary.

I'm not sure what other evidence would have been enough for the jurors to convict him of rape, which is the reason I believe the cases should be lumped together. To establish a pattern.

I personally don't see how it would be beneficial to use a person in the BDSM community as an expert witness. That would imply in order to participate in bondage, you MUST do this or that. While its definitely a good idea to work out details and such, it's not something that is required or practiced by everyone.
Same as if they were to poll a bunch of random women and ask if they'd let a man blindfold and handcuff her during their first sexual encounter. I'm going to assume many would say no, but there may be a few who will say yes.

Besides, I'm sure he'd just lie and say they did work all that out. The article made him out to be a great story teller.

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RE: Rape -- Not Guilty Verdict / Bondage Sex Defense - 9/6/2013 9:04:50 PM

cloudboy

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You have to prove a lack of consent. I would argue that a bondage rape scene takes two consenting adults with an inclination for that kind of play.

This shows, too, how difficult it can be to prosecute a rape case.

Prior offenses generally cannot be used as evidence of a new offense. A prejudicial past cannot be evidence of a current crime.

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RE: Rape -- Not Guilty Verdict / Bondage Sex Defense - 9/6/2013 9:20:25 PM

metamorfosis

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quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy
Nelson Bernard Clifford has been tried in three separate rape cases in recent years. Each time, he was linked through DNA to the scene and his accuser said she had been bound, blindfolded and attacked.

And each time, the 35-year-old was acquitted after giving similar testimony: He said the sex was consensual and surmised the women accused him of rape because they were either upset over a financial dispute or worried their boyfriends would find out.

That's appalling.

quote:

I think the prosecution here needs to bring in some expert BDSM witness testimony. Consenting BDSM partners typically would have worked out the consent in advance and would have a history of play together. When contrasting this with what appears to be a one-time rape-bondage scene, I think you could impeach the defendant's testimony.

That might have helped, but if the jury didn't believe the firsthand testimony of the victims themselves, then why would it believe some expert speculating about what might have happened, or giving evidence about what other people sometimes do?

quote:

How would you try to prosecute this man?

Strengthen the victim's testimony. It sounds like these cases were decided on the basis of the attacker's confidence and charisma in court compared with the victims' nervousness. God knows how you would go about making them less nervous, but the prosecutor needs to make them understand that any appearance of doubt or nervousness will work against them.

The verdict is disgusting. The jury was clearly conned. Perhaps the prosecution would have done better to bring in an expert on sociopathic charm.

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RE: Rape -- Not Guilty Verdict / Bondage Sex Defense - 9/6/2013 9:35:57 PM

theshytype

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quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy

You have to prove a lack of consent. I would argue that a bondage rape scene takes two consenting adults with an inclination for that kind of play.

This shows, too, how difficult it can be to prosecute a rape case.

Prior offenses generally cannot be used as evidence of a new offense. A prejudicial past cannot be evidence of a current crime.

I know they cannot use the past cases now, for the newest.
I was referring to this bit:

"Prosecutors had wanted one jury to hear the cases together, but Clifford's public defender successfully argued that juries should weigh each allegation separately. "

Proving lack of consent isn't an easy task and usually becomes he said/she said issue which can lead to a guilty man walking free and an innocent one locked up.

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RE: Rape -- Not Guilty Verdict / Bondage Sex Defense - 9/6/2013 9:41:51 PM

metamorfosis

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quote:

ORIGINAL: theshytype
Proving lack of consent isn't an easy task...

Getting juries to respond rationally and without prejudice is even harder.

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RE: Rape -- Not Guilty Verdict / Bondage Sex Defense - 9/6/2013 10:46:17 PM

theshytype

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quote:

ORIGINAL: metamorfosis

quote:

ORIGINAL: theshytype
Proving lack of consent isn't an easy task...

Getting juries to respond rationally and without prejudice is even harder.

That's because juries consist of people.

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RE: Rape -- Not Guilty Verdict / Bondage Sex Defense - 9/6/2013 11:44:33 PM

TieMeInKnottss

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I grew up in Balto...sadly the juries and the prosecutors are not necessarily the brightest society has to offer...
I nominate KANA, a Balto resident, to be the BDSM rep/expert

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RE: Rape -- Not Guilty Verdict / Bondage Sex Defense - 9/7/2013 12:12:46 AM

LadyPact

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My knee jerk reaction on this is that either the prosecuting attorney is a really piss poor lawyer or Clifford has one hell of a public defender.

I don't know if expert testimony would be helpful on this. Unfortunately, if you opened the door on the issue of consent, I'd have to think you get the whole can of worms, including rape play and versions of consent/non consent. Also, in reading the article, I'm not seeing where either side is playing the "BDSM gone wrong" card, so I'm not sure introducing the topic would be helpful in prosecuting.

While I appreciate you sharing the article, I can't help but to feel saddened that these women are not getting justice.

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RE: Rape -- Not Guilty Verdict / Bondage Sex Defense - 9/7/2013 2:07:42 AM

needlesandpins

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I have always thought that when a pattern appears it should be presented as a whole to a jury. I haven't read the article as these things get me far too angry, but if this guy really is guilty then I feel very sorry for these women. I do think it's hard to judge though when we are not the ones that were sat in the court room and so don't know how the evidence was put over. it certainly seems very odd.

it also makes me feel very grateful that I have someone that I can give myself over to and trust.

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RE: Rape -- Not Guilty Verdict / Bondage Sex Defense - 9/7/2013 8:01:39 AM

hlen5

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It's too bad the prosecution couldn't have tricked the perp into revealing his past behavior into the last trial.

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